That sinking sensation

If you're not that far into Dragonblight quests and don't want to be spoiled, I'm putting it behind the cut.
The quest is A Letter for Home, and if you're doing or you've done the questlines in Dragonblight concerning the Moonrest Gardens (most of which are identical regardless of your faction), eventually you'll run across a drop from an important leader amongst the Blue Dragonflight forces. The Alliance will get Captain Malin's Letter; the Horde will get Lieutenant Ta'zinni's Letter.
Both letters have been written by people (the former a human, the latter a troll) who were blackmailed into service for the Blue Dragonflight under threat of harm to their families, but are secretly working to destroy the dragons' efforts from within. You kill the turncoats and then you get the letter drop explaining this sad state of affairs, and decide to take it to your local commander to see if there's anything that can be done for this person's family.
Now, Overlord Agmar, the guy who's running the eponymous Agmar's Hammer for the Horde in Dragonblight, is no bowl of chuckles under ordinary circumstances. He's slightly stressed and utterly disgusted by three other traitors running around the area. He is one of the most unsentimental and least forgiving NPC's you will find in the entire game. As far as he is concerned, you are a member of the Horde. You are aware of the problems that the Horde (and, he will grudgingly admit, the Alliance) faces in Northrend; if you weren't, you wouldn't be here. You will do your job and you will do it to the best of your ability, aware of all the things that ride on it, and he will not pity or accept cowardice, hesitation, or -- God help you -- betrayal, because you do not have the luxury of thinking only of yourself.
So I wasn't expecting him to react well, but I also wasn't expecting this:
Ahahahaha... boo hoo, how touching.
<The condescension in the overlord's deep-throated laughter is palpable.>
What did I say? Traitors! Still, I knew Deino once upon a time. She at least is a troll with honor!
I'll see to it that she finds out what happened to her brother. I'll even forget to tell her that you're the one that killed him.
<Agmar fixes you with a calculated stare.>
But I own you now, <class>!
This...bothered me, the sheer callousness of it, to the point where I really wondered for the first time if I were playing the right faction (although I got over it when I logged to my Dwarf and spent an hour being directed to kill the people who'd wound up rebuilding Stormwind for free). A more charitable person might shrug and say that Agmar is simply a character in the mold of Gregory House, M.D. -- you can be a good person without necessarily being a nice one -- but still. That kind of sucked.<The condescension in the overlord's deep-throated laughter is palpable.>
What did I say? Traitors! Still, I knew Deino once upon a time. She at least is a troll with honor!
I'll see to it that she finds out what happened to her brother. I'll even forget to tell her that you're the one that killed him.
<Agmar fixes you with a calculated stare.>
But I own you now, <class>!
A lot of people playing Horde will cite Message From the West as being a sort of epistolary counterpart to this quest, and it's very true that Saurfang's letter washes away a lot of the unpleasantness you've probably dealt with while leveling (as does Saurfang's conversation with Garrosh Hellscream in Warsong Hold; hang around them until you see it). There's a lot of infighting over what truly constitutes the soul of the Horde. I can only hope that Saurfang's concern prevails over Agmar's indifference.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Quests, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 10 of 10)
Green Nov 21st 2008 3:08PM
Lol
We call those guys non combat blues mages.
Since those metods of gathering information are not allowed in Dalaran, we gonna keep them in this tower until they talk or until we hear want we want o hear...
I almost certain i already heard that story somewhere else....
Deathgodryuk Nov 21st 2008 3:57PM
I love the darker horde direction. It's the first time in WoW I've really felt any sense of nuance in a storyline and Thrall's battle to keep the Horde from descending into darkness and fighting to maintain a line of decency is probably the best story I've seen. All of these quests that show a drop in moral standards are a sign of Hellscream's own leadership role and his lack of understanding the struggle that Thrall has dealt with in order to break away from the path that Hellscream is leading the Horde back into. It really is a remarkable storyline and thus far I think Blizz has pulled it off extremely well.
Brian Rosen Nov 21st 2008 4:30PM
A sinking feeling? Howabout the Fizzcrank Airstrip quest where you have to kill the baby mammoths that you just saved from traps the previous day for DEHTA. Now THAT sucked.
Thepanzer Nov 21st 2008 5:13PM
The problem with the torture quest lines is how close it skirts to going over the line and with DK's in particular that you have no choice in avoiding the New Dawn torture quest if you object to it. I seem to remember it had TPs attached to it and I'm not sure if you could leave the starter zone without completing it so for those of us who don't like those quests we had the choice of never playing the class or doing quest content we don't think is appropriate.
Clearly blizz knows there are some lines you don't cross as I don't remember any quests where you rape anyone, incest, child abuse, etc. So obviously blizz has some lines in the sand, I'm not entirely sure where they got the idea that torture didn't fall into those same taboo categories but one of the recurring themes from the 9 pages of posts on this topic is many people are not comfortable with torture being used as a form of "entertainment" and shouldn't be forced to participate in it if they don't want to.
I opened a ticket with the GMs to complain about it, I encourage everyone else who has a problem with being forced into torture quests, as with the DK starter line, to let them know you're not happy about it. If blizz wants to incorporate more mature themes then they can change there ESRB from "teen" to "mature" and be done with it. (which I doubt they want since part of their revenue comes from family's who play together and preteen audiences)
thepanzer Nov 21st 2008 5:41PM
"Jormungandr said...
It's nice to be anti-torture and all. IRL I am anti-torture myself, but seriously, it's a) a video game, and b) world of WARcraft. If you don't expect a cerain amount of that kind of stuff, you should go back to playing Wii Tennis or something"
There are some lines you don't cross, there are some things that shouldn't be "entertainment." Given the fact that the U.S. has lost all credilibity on the issue of torture and after leaving the military over it I'd kind of like to play my favorite videogame without it being thrown in my face the first 15 minutes after starting the new character class. But hey, why not add rape to the quest lines too? That happens in war also so it's fair game right? Why not lose the cartoony graphics and go for photo-realistic violence, it's just make believe. How a society entertains itself says a lot about the society. If you really think it's just for kicks I challenge you to go on a first date with a girl and tell her how much you enjoy playing video games where you get to torture in the game world and enjoy doing cruel things. I bet you're not going to get that 2nd date. If you're a religous person I challenge you to go to whoever your religous lead is (priest, pastor, rabbi) and tell them how much you enjoy torture in video games since you get to indulge in it without actually doing it. I bet 5 bucks they look at you like you've lost your mind. For more fun I challenge you to go on a job interview and when asked what you do for a hobby tell them play video games where i get to pretend like I'm torturing people. Hint, hint you're not going to get that job.
Taboos are taboos for a reason, I don't want them in my videogames and don't want to spend 50 dollars for the choice of engaging in something aberrant or never getting to play new content. As a business practice that comes in the FAIL category for customer satisfaction.
IvanZephyr Nov 21st 2008 10:26PM
1.) You act as if the game is all torture, there are what...3, 4, or at max 5 quests like this in the ENTIRE game. Talk about blowing things out of proportion
2.) In regards to the Death Knight one, guess what, Death Knights and the Lich King kill people, thats their thing, they want to kill EVERYBODY. Why don't you just boycott the game since the entire DK starting area is just a mass genocide of troops?
3.) Apparently no one has any rational thought in this topic, Blizzard even said somewhere (I can't find the source), that you are SUPPOSE to be like "dude wtf..." when doing the Death Knight starter quests. They explain, among other things, why the redeemed DKs are so adamant in killing the Lich King.
4.) You act as if when you are torturing the NPCs, your character is having a grand old time. While this MAY be true with the DK quest, it it certainly not with the others. Hell, with the Kirin-Tor one, you are only doing it because they NEED that Archmage because their forces are spread so thin.
5.) Apparently having 5 torturing quests in a game with 5000+ quests means that they should now just add smut in everywhere. Take out the fantasy- like setting, just change everything to GTA style. Yes, add in rape scenes, hell it is what happens in real life.
Guess what, if you didn't realize this, WoW =/= Real Life.
Get over yourself, climb down from that platform you are on, its quite shaky seeing as your argument is invalid and rests on making false analogies.
Like I said before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy
Look it up
IvanZephyr Nov 21st 2008 10:17PM
Are you people serious?
1.) This is a game
2.) This is exactly what Arthas went through. Mal'Ganis and the Lich King pushed him closer and closer to the morality line, until he finally crossed it.
3.) This is a game
Somehow proposing that people not having a problem with these quests means that we are condoning torture is ludicrous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy
Look it up.
The point of these types of quests are to get into the mindset of those that are either forcing you to or allowing you to.
Yes, Arthas and the Death Knights do this, they are EVIL. They are murdering bastards who want to kill everyone. Same with the Forsaken. Malygos is still insane (to some extent) and has become so drastic that he is doing this that he would have normally been appalled by.
Get over yourselves, if you are angry by this, I would expect you all to be freaking out about D.E.H.T.A.
euthanasian Nov 22nd 2008 4:41AM
I still can't believe people are complaining about the Death Knight class being too violent and cruel.
They are called. Death. Knights.
Not paladin. Not holy warrior. Not nurse. Not bard.
What the hell do you expect from a class called a death knight, honestly???
It's like, rolling a priest, and asking "WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY HEALING SPELLS?"
If you are uncomfortable with doing anything remotely dark, violent, questionable, malicious... Why on earth would you roll a class called a Death Knight and complain about it?
thepanzer Nov 22nd 2008 10:36AM
Gratz on winning the "missing the point" achievement for the last 3 posters.
For those of us who object to it we shouldn't be forced to engage in it to play the class. That's crap game design and btw feel free to say wether you think rape should be added to the quest lines or not. It's in the same taboo category and golly wouldn't it add to the "mature" them of the DK content?
I worked with a army captain who did 2 tours in Iraq. He joked about abusing detainees c.o.n.s.t.a.n.t.l.y and he had some serious mental issues. For you it's a game, for anyone who's been in the military the last 5 years it's pretty fucking serious and I don't like seeing it trivialized and turned into an entertainment when I log in to relax for a little while. If you think it's a lot of fun then that's between you and your shrink.
photometrik Nov 24th 2008 8:57PM
Well...I'm not a fan of torturer in real life, but I found the quests to be amusing. It doesn't mean that I'm going to go out and preach to the world that torturing prisoners is okay. I just find it funny in a (WARNING: Incoming Keyword) game.
It's no worse than Doom, no worse than Grand Theft Auto, and no worse than any other game on soccer moms' list of games kids should not play. Yes, I understand the game has a Teen rating. But that still leaves a lot of room for miscreant behavior. The assumption is that teenagers should know the difference from right and wrong at this point in their lives, and its up to the parents to police it.
Personally, I'm enjoying the darker atmosphere of Wrath. I think its a monumentally epic step in favor of the moral ambiguity that is the Horde and the Alliance. Who is really the bad guys here? With Wrath, the lines are more blurry than they ever were before. And as a fan of gray area in games, this is perfect for me.