That sinking sensation

If you're not that far into Dragonblight quests and don't want to be spoiled, I'm putting it behind the cut.
The quest is A Letter for Home, and if you're doing or you've done the questlines in Dragonblight concerning the Moonrest Gardens (most of which are identical regardless of your faction), eventually you'll run across a drop from an important leader amongst the Blue Dragonflight forces. The Alliance will get Captain Malin's Letter; the Horde will get Lieutenant Ta'zinni's Letter.
Both letters have been written by people (the former a human, the latter a troll) who were blackmailed into service for the Blue Dragonflight under threat of harm to their families, but are secretly working to destroy the dragons' efforts from within. You kill the turncoats and then you get the letter drop explaining this sad state of affairs, and decide to take it to your local commander to see if there's anything that can be done for this person's family.
Now, Overlord Agmar, the guy who's running the eponymous Agmar's Hammer for the Horde in Dragonblight, is no bowl of chuckles under ordinary circumstances. He's slightly stressed and utterly disgusted by three other traitors running around the area. He is one of the most unsentimental and least forgiving NPC's you will find in the entire game. As far as he is concerned, you are a member of the Horde. You are aware of the problems that the Horde (and, he will grudgingly admit, the Alliance) faces in Northrend; if you weren't, you wouldn't be here. You will do your job and you will do it to the best of your ability, aware of all the things that ride on it, and he will not pity or accept cowardice, hesitation, or -- God help you -- betrayal, because you do not have the luxury of thinking only of yourself.
So I wasn't expecting him to react well, but I also wasn't expecting this:
Ahahahaha... boo hoo, how touching.
<The condescension in the overlord's deep-throated laughter is palpable.>
What did I say? Traitors! Still, I knew Deino once upon a time. She at least is a troll with honor!
I'll see to it that she finds out what happened to her brother. I'll even forget to tell her that you're the one that killed him.
<Agmar fixes you with a calculated stare.>
But I own you now, <class>!
This...bothered me, the sheer callousness of it, to the point where I really wondered for the first time if I were playing the right faction (although I got over it when I logged to my Dwarf and spent an hour being directed to kill the people who'd wound up rebuilding Stormwind for free). A more charitable person might shrug and say that Agmar is simply a character in the mold of Gregory House, M.D. -- you can be a good person without necessarily being a nice one -- but still. That kind of sucked.<The condescension in the overlord's deep-throated laughter is palpable.>
What did I say? Traitors! Still, I knew Deino once upon a time. She at least is a troll with honor!
I'll see to it that she finds out what happened to her brother. I'll even forget to tell her that you're the one that killed him.
<Agmar fixes you with a calculated stare.>
But I own you now, <class>!
A lot of people playing Horde will cite Message From the West as being a sort of epistolary counterpart to this quest, and it's very true that Saurfang's letter washes away a lot of the unpleasantness you've probably dealt with while leveling (as does Saurfang's conversation with Garrosh Hellscream in Warsong Hold; hang around them until you see it). There's a lot of infighting over what truly constitutes the soul of the Horde. I can only hope that Saurfang's concern prevails over Agmar's indifference.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Quests, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 10)
Nick S Nov 21st 2008 9:50AM
If you want evil, join the Forsaken and really embrace their purposes. If you read closely the quest text, you'll discover that their minds are never far from evildoing. It's justified, in a way, but certainly not just.
The Orcs and Tauren are not, by nature, evil. The Orcs in particular were a race of hunter/gatherers before the corruption of Kil'Jaeden's influence. In the same way, the Tauren were basically farmers prior to their involvement in the war.
The Trolls have a muddied history; suffice to say you can RP evil, but it's not quite as clear-cut evil as the Forsaken embrace.
Deadnaught Nov 20th 2008 7:19PM
As someone who rolled a Horde (only begrudgingly works with alliance) Blood Elf (naturally evil, magic addicted traitors) death knight (undead, worked for Arthas and tortured people to death then raised them as ghouls to serve them) I approve of these quests whole heartedly.
If you wanted to be charitable roll Hello Kitty Alliance Adventures, lol.
--Deadnaught (Smolderthorn)
Allison Robert Nov 20th 2008 7:21PM
Blood Elves aren't intrinsically evil except by way of individual choice,though. Nor Undead, although there are some among their leadership who leave a lot to be desired...
Deadnaught Nov 20th 2008 7:26PM
Yeah, but if I were to RP, I would be intrinsically evil. So, my comment stands, lol.
Nastar Nov 20th 2008 9:25PM
Agreed, Shouldn't be playing kid friendly quests on a game like this. I love the different quests in Northrend. Gives the game a new touch and very enjoyable. who the heck wanted to play TBC again with a different map. Great Story and a lot of different quests. If you have problems with these quests skip em or play Alliance better for me anyways after 10pm (Bedtime) --> For the Alliance LOL.
For the Horde!!
NoonecaresaboutyourRP Nov 20th 2008 7:41PM
No one cares about your RP.
Lore trounces how you RP.
So BEs aren't evil.
Balius Nov 20th 2008 9:37PM
You can probably argue that blood elves are first and foremost self-serving, but evil? In a land with demons trying to enslave every planet, with undead monstrosities trying to snuff out all life, where races are actively trying to kill everything else to serve their own gods/queen? Greed just doesn't cut it as intrinsically evil.
Dillbert Nov 20th 2008 7:25PM
Seriously guys, these story lines make for some decent adult fun, yes I said adult. The player base is made of a lot of mature / adult players now and ideas, quests, suggestions like these that the GAME makes lets you play in a fashion that normally would not be given. I applaud Blizz on creating content like this, besides, with a Hero class called "Death Knight" did you really think it was all sugar and spice? DEATH KNIGHT, the class is kewl, your coming into your own and breaking free of the Lich King's hold over you and the horrible things you have done in the past, it is epic.
William Nov 21st 2008 8:34AM
THIS ^
Pex-Corrh Nov 20th 2008 7:27PM
I was taken aback by everything Agmar told me to do, but like in Conquest Hold, there's always the counter point. It shows the Horde with a lot more depth than it had in Burning Crusade and Classic. That there are some, even some in power, who may go too far, and it is left to the player question what is too far. I haven't gotten past Zul'Drak yet, but it seems so far the Horde theme in Lich King is one of "Victory at what cost?"
As far as who represents the Horde, I think they've been really clear that Thrall and Saurfang are the "True Horde."
Kyle Nov 20th 2008 7:52PM
Well said.
Sagara Nov 21st 2008 2:26AM
This is precisely what I tought when I arrived in Agmar's Hammer.
The dichotomy of the orcs has been put in the limelight, I mean, I feel like there are two Orc factions in Northrend, each one trying to show the other "their" path is right.
And what's worse
[SPOILER ALERT]
Seeing how Saurfang's tactics will fare at the Wrathgate, it seems Blizz is trying to make Hellsream's style rise in power.
[\SPOILER]
On the other side of the coin, Wrynn is already showing the Humans in a less savory light - self-righteous, belligerent.
It seems this storyline is going to keep going darker. After all, to quote the Lich King himself in his first trailer:
"Only then will you realize, you've been walking in my footsteps all along..."
Pacsik Nov 20th 2008 7:30PM
When I rolled hoard I thought we would be much more evil than we are. (I had almost no background in WoW lore) Turns out we are some sort of warrior environmentalists or something.
If you ever play destruction in Warhammer... they ARE evil.
I have no qualms with being evil in a game... I just like to know what to expect from the faction I'm playing.
Burgdorn Nov 20th 2008 7:41PM
Pacsik, I'm sorry if I can't relate with you but there was a book when you purchased the game. One of the biggest components that makes WoW a great game is how it looks at the concept of Good vs. Evil and how perception plays a part of it. The Horde, not Hoard, tend to be a group of races in need of allies. They trust each other mainly because they are aware of each others skills and assets to the continued survivability in Azeroth. I think this is something that can generally be understood while looking through the first manual.
If you think it is ridiculous, then that is your prerogative. They just don't want all the "human" looking races to be the good guys. Their world is made of races of honor. Not races that speak in poor English and bent on the destruction of all races that don't bow under them just to get a blood rush. Its a quality that makes or breaks the game for some, I personally enjoy it but your more than welcome to disagree.
Arktic Nov 20th 2008 7:33PM
I don't read alot of the quest text... only the important stuff, but the one that got me was on the western edge of Dragonblight, the maw quest line, where as you are killing these guys, they are begging for mercy. Of course if I granted them mercy they would just go on beating me senseless, so I did justify it and made it through, but I think Blizzard should realize the immersion they have created in the game, and avoid the little things that just doesn't set right morally. You are a hero, and your goal is to save the world and destroy the bad guy. I don't have a problem if the boss is begging for mercy while you kill him, but I do the minions. As far as torture quest chains, and the DK starting area, they are wrong in so many ways, however with the DK area, you acutaly start out as a bad guy and change your ways a few levels later so it's not entirely wrong.
Burgdorn Nov 20th 2008 7:49PM
In an ideal situation your character may have chosen to avoid helping such people do heinous things. I'm sure in all reality you have tons of gold in your pockets, but if your not reading the quest text then you've been missing the fact that there is no love in this harsh climate. Yeah it would be nice if you could let people go, but the minute you take your eyes of them they could stab you in the back. Heroes are made of tough stuff, not basket of flowers, so making sure that you get the job done to help your faction reach its goals in defeating one of the vilest evils in Azeroth may get some hurt.
Being a hero is no easy choice and you could probably put a moral system in the game but most wouldn't appreciate it or notice it. Something like... letting someone go, but they have a chance of one shotting you and doubling your durability loss. People would hate that sort of event, but I assure you that it would get the point across real fast about letting the beggers live.
Khanmora Nov 21st 2008 9:01AM
I think High Commander Wyrmbane at Wintergarde really sums it up in his chat pane:
"Through the valleys and peaks of Mount Hyjal, across the shifting sands of Silithus, against the Legion's dread armies - we have fought. We are the nameless, faceless, sons and daughters of the Alliance. By the Light and by the might of the Alliance, the first strike belongs to us and the last strike is all that our enemies see.
We are 7th Legion. "
Burgdorn Nov 20th 2008 7:34PM
I really think this quest helps to constitute the kind of situation your avatar is in while traversing Northrend. This place is no picnic, certainly a very large portion would probably enjoy themselves better if they could bash skulls in Arathi Basin, NPC wise anyhow. A lot of things haven't gone as planned and with the biting cold probably limiting key characters even more, things are exceptionally stressful.
If the game is meant to tell you about your surroundings with the characters around you then Blizzard has indeed shown just how harsh conditions are in the game.
bdcguild@wowway.com Nov 20th 2008 7:35PM
"Look at this stuff! Why are the Forsaken so evil?"
That item's flavor text, indicating as it does my poor paladin's plaintive and bewildered cry for comprehension, is now my all-time fave.
Joe Nov 20th 2008 7:37PM
so if I /beg in pvp or a BG will you carebears spare me? Or would slaughtering me in cold blood keep you awake at night?