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11-20-2008 @ 7:07PM
I personally was taken aback by the one in.. I think Fjord, where you torture some poor bastard by using some mind-flaying device. You have to keep using it till he begs for mercy!
11-20-2008 @ 7:15PM
There are a surprising amount of these types of quests. I've had to do at least 3 torture, then kill quests and I'm only at 73.
11-20-2008 @ 7:16PM
This one was rather specific... because the man was tied up, couldn't get away, and all you did was torture him. And then it was implied he would be tortured more.
11-20-2008 @ 8:01PM
I feel guilty about it in a way, but... after he spilled his guts I kept on torturing him just to see what would happen.
11-20-2008 @ 8:31PM
Yeah. I was REALLY unimpressed with that one too. If I have to do any more torture quests, I think my levelling may be coming to a sudden halt.
11-21-2008 @ 2:40AM
After you do that quest, you can get the torture device (I forget what its called) again from a vendor (for free) at the top of the tower.Torture him anytime you like, I guess. Free punching bag. >_>;
11-20-2008 @ 8:51PM
That wasn't a Horde quest... that was a quest for the Kirin Tor. And, frankly, if you read the quest text, it was a matter of torture him or let a high ranking, innocent member of the Kirin Tor remain kidnapped, be murdered, or worse by Malygos's forces.While I know it's very fashionable to be anti-torture these days... come on. First, it's a game. Second, he could have just *told* you where the person was you needed to rescue. He made the choice to be a dick, withhold the information, and make you waste time scrambling his brains.He's the inconsiderate one here you see.Further more? You have a problem with "torturing" a *virtual person* by right clicking an item in you bags... but you're OK with murdering how many hundreds of thousands of sentient beings and innocent wildlife to get from 1 to 80? Have you checked your kill count? You're walking death! But *this* quest gives you pause? Come the frick on.
11-20-2008 @ 9:04PM
One of the big arguments against torture is that there's usually no guarantee that the victim actually knows the information you're after. Another is that it's very hard to know when the victim is telling the truth, and when he's just saying whatever he thinks you want him to say.Of course, this is in a game where the things we kill are usually feeling much better in a minute or two, and vice versa, and which magic is real, so if they wanna pretend that torture sometimes works, oh well.
11-21-2008 @ 5:32AM
Yeah, what Armath said. I actually find this really disturbing, because it plants the idea that torture actually works in players' minds, which I find very worrying. I've run into three torture quests now (one in the DK area, one in Borean and one in Dragonblight), and I'm starting to get pissed off.
11-21-2008 @ 6:48AM
Uhmm, I think the biggest argument against torture is that you are TORTURING people to or close to the brink of killing them, often causing permanent damage of one sort or another. You may notice that the Kirin Tor torture devices carefully explained that they cause the sensation of pain very well, without actually harming the person involved. It ' s the moral torturer's wet dream; get the information you want without actually risking the subject's health whatsoever.
11-21-2008 @ 7:14AM
Also, questioning a Mage Hunter about the whereabouts of a mage abducted in the area hours previous drastically increases the chances of your subject knowing what you think they know. It ' s actually pretty reasonable to assume a Mage Hunter would know where they put their mages when they succeed at hunting them.More important than remembering that the mobs respawn feeling fine in a minute is that this is a game where you can ransack and slaughter the people of Booty Bay for days, and then return to their good side by donating a large collection of cloth., and that the Netherwing faction do not lower your rep if you kill countless of their brood. Wow is morally infantile.
11-27-2008 @ 3:36PM
Yes it's just a game and yes your Death Knight has done worse but there's still a difference. There are very few people out there who really believe you can raise the dead and kill innocents with ghouls. Not many people think magic is real, let alone think it works. I've never heard anyone argue that Orcs actually exist.On the other hand there are a number of people who wrongly think that torture works and that it is justified. And unlike flying Gryphons and races of walrus men, there actually are people being torutured right now. This quest goes way over the line and should be rewritten or replaced.
11-21-2008 @ 9:53AM
I agree. that quest was very uncomfortable for me. I'm not Dick Cheney and don't wish to play him in a computer game, either.
11-21-2008 @ 10:04AM
Ktok said.......No, it's not "fashionable" to be against torture...unless you live your life in a Video Game and People magazine. "fashion" has zero to do with as anyone would know who at least tries to stay current about this topic.Some of us are just uncomforatble with the thought of actual torture. And the killing of cretures and mobs is not the samre thing. We don't tie up a murlock and torture him for his clams. mobs at least have a chance to fight back.Yes, it's just a game. And yes I did torture him. It just didn't make me feel good about the qwst at all. Would you feel the same if a qwst demanded that you throw a dwarf baby over the cliffs or sacrifice one in some cruel way? Yes, it's just a game but wouldn't it make you feel a little creepy afterwards?I'm happy to see that behind the WoW masks there are real humans working the keyboards and enuf of them felt humane enuf to at least feel uncomfortable about this. I think pverall thats a good thing.
11-21-2008 @ 10:30AM
Yeah, I didn’t like that torture quest. I didn’t think it was something a noble paladin should be involving herself with. And that letter you get for the Alliance for Malin, the sentinel mainly seems to brush it off. There’s no in-depth moral complication - it’s basically “It happened, oh well.” I would have much preferred a continuance of that quest in which you find forgiveness from her father - or at the very least allow me to redeem her as I am a paladin.
11-21-2008 @ 12:10PM
I was similarly not pleased. I might have gotten along with that quest a little bit better if it turned out the guy gave you info that sent you into a trap, because (surprise!) information obtained under torture is not guaranteed to be reliable."It's just a game" arguments don't pan out. The TV show 24 was big on arguing the merits of casual torture, and I might've said "it's just a tv show" at one point, except for the fact that I would astonishingly see actual U.S. Senators making actual arguments referencing the merits of the actions of the fictional Jack Bauer. Of course I wouldn't say "24 causes torture", but that's a pretty direct correlation to suggest that it's at least used as a tool to make some people more accepting of it.Also, tangentially, "doesn't cause lasting damage" arguments also don't pan out, because I'm not sure you can argue that being helpless and required to act against your will under excruciating circumstances has no mental effect on you whatsoever.
11-21-2008 @ 2:29PM
What I find most amazing is that you are all serious. Have you all honestly lost your minds? It is a video game. You're worse than a bunch of PETA wacko's protesting that we kill too many animals in the game. I can't believe you are actually having this discussion. Do something useful, like protest the Chinese for harvisting organs from tens of thousands of living political prisoners just because they practice Falun Gong. http://faluninfo.net/article/827/Some being a bunch of infantile hand wringers.
11-21-2008 @ 5:23PM
"I can't believe you are actually having this discussion. Do something useful, like protest the Chinese for harvisting organs from tens of thousands of living political prisoners just because they practice Falun Gong. http://faluninfo.net/article/827/ "Unfortunately you don't realize that, on some level of consciousness this normalizes and justifies torture. Even if it is just a game, the people who do this quest are subliminally less taken back by the act of torture. It is a good thing that people are aware enough to realize that even in a game torture shouldn't be accepted. If you really do hope to see people protesting civil injustices and torture in china, than you shouldn't make light the fact they are uncomfortable with role playing such actions. As knowing wrong from right is the first small step on the road to rectifying society's problems, and a good sign of righteous moral fiber. Even if protesting torture in azeroth gets us nowhere in reality. It is good to know that people have strong enough convictions to speak against what they disagree with. Maybe some of these people will turn to social activism because of the way that this quest made them feel.
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