Hi Arthas! Want some help slaughtering the innocent?

It's a question that people used to ask about Black Morass a lot too (indeed, the first boss, Chrono Lord Deja, will ask you that himself), but Black Morass was a little more cut-and-dried. Medivh unquestionably cost many lives in bringing the first Horde through his portal, but if the orcs never set foot in Azeroth, then the world would have fallen to the Legion. The Bronze Dragonflight is unusually blunt about the cause-and-effect; war breaks out among the human kingdoms, the Alliance never occurs, the new Horde is not present at Hyjal to defend against Archimonde's forces -- indeed, the Legion may very well have swept the world without Hyjal ever occurring. So, despite the destruction wrought by the first Horde's entry into Azeroth (and you could argue, because of it), Medivh must succeed in opening the portal.
I'm not sure it's quite that straightforward with "Old Strat" -- and questions about whether it is prompt some thought-provoking questions concerning Azeroth's past, present, and future.
Now, I haven't done Culling of Stratholme yet, so anyone who has, feel free to chime in, but these are the reasons that my guildies and I came up with for why Arthas' descent into troubling moral waters can't be stopped when it starts:
The Bronze Dragonflight just doesn't want to mess with the timestream.
Reason enough, and the reason given to you by Chromie for both quests she'll give you for the dungeon. Bad things happen when you mess around with time, and that's the excuse also given by a member of the Kirin Tor, Archmage Timear, when he sends you to old Strat for the daily dungeon.

Do they? I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the Keepers of Time could come up with a concrete reason for why Arthas can't deviate from his path to Icecrown, or if they had jack to say about what Nozdormu is really up to. More on this in a moment.
If Arthas never travels to Northrend and/or gets Frostmourne, there's no one to: a). provide crucial information for Illidan when he needed it, or b). stop Illidan later.
Illidan destroys Tichondrius, the former leader of the Nathrezim with the Burning Legion, in part because of information Arthas gives him concerning the skull of Gul'dan (which Illidan goes on to consume, thus becoming the demon/elf hybrid you see in the Burning Crusade cinematic). If Illidan hadn't run into Arthas at that point, Tichondrius would almost certainly have killed off the Night Elves and then wiped out everything else he could find.
But Illidan and Arthas don't actually like each other, and they like each other even less after the Legion realizes that Nerz'hul (the actual Lich King) has gone rogue and that the Scourge are no longer under their control. If Illidan had succeeded in destroying the Frozen Throne during the events of Warcraft III, the Scourge would have ceased to exist as a counterweight to the Legion's power (bad) and Illidan, still smarting over his long imprisonment and in command of Kael's elves and Vashj's naga, would not have had an effective foil (also bad).
You can see a late example of this in the demons battling the undead around the Shattered Sun Offensive's staging area at Sunwell Plateau; it was a lot better for these two powers to be occupied with each other than it was for them to be occupied with us.

People tend to refer to Arthas as the Lich King without acknowledging that he's (at best) half of what occupies that suit of armor. Ner'zhul, the onetime elder shaman of the Orc clans on Draenor, is the real brains of the outfit, and nobody knows his real agenda. He's accomplished great evil over the course of his existence -- but not all of it was intentional, and he tried to stop the rise of the first Horde after he realized he'd been duped by Kil'jaeden. His actions as the Lich King may well conceal a higher purpose -- though, given the destruction he's wrought, that's a pretty hard sell -- but there's no denying that the entity once known as Ner'zhul the kindly shaman has been entirely devoid of compassion or pity over the span of his existence.
Some greater threat yet faces the world that requires the Alliance and the Horde to remain united.
Somewhat doubtful in light of the events concerning Angrathar but still a possibility.
Nozdormu -- if he is in fact the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight as is hinted ingame -- is trying to alter the past because Arthas plays a role in his (Nozdormu's) death.
I actually find this to be the most interesting possibility by far. If Nozdormu is responsible for the Infinite Dragonflight, he's playing pretty fast and loose with a number of important events in Azerothian history, somewhat akin to the fashion in which Malygos has gone nuts on the use of magic.
Nozdormu knows the time and place of his own death and may be using the Infinite Dragonflight to disrupt the events that lead to it. There are four events that players are currently able to affect in order to restore the timeways: Thrall's escape from Durnholde, the opening of the portal that first brought the orcs to Azeroth, the events of Mount Hyjal and the end of Archimonde, and now Arthas' descent into evil. I don't know whether there's a common thread linking all four events beyond the obvious need for the existence of the modern Horde, the existence of the modern Alliance, and some sort of vague note on Arthas' rise as the Lich King. Beware, Nozdormu; you too could become a raid boss.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Expansions, The Burning Crusade, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Thiosion Nov 23rd 2008 2:20PM
It all kinda leads up to Hyjal. If Arthas never resurrected Kel'thuzad, Archimonde would never be summoned. If Thrall never escaped, the New Horde would not be present. If Arthas never turned to evil, Jaina would not be desperate enough to believe Medivh and go to Kalimdor. If Medivh never opened the Dark Portal, human civil war.
What it SEEMS like is that Hyjal was their last-ditch effort. Because they are disparate from out timeline, Mount Hyjal's tampering could have occurred AFTER Stratholme. Clearly they want to change SOMETHING at Hyjal, but risking Archimonde's summoning or lack thereof suggests they may not want the Legion to win, or at least not directly.
BladeeR Nov 23rd 2008 3:50PM
I wonder, how many more times you will use this shadow picture? It's getting boring now.. get some new pics for articles.
Allison Robert Nov 23rd 2008 4:00PM
Hey BladeeR - unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to run CoT Strat yet, so I picked some screenshots I had that were thematically appropriate to a post concerning time travel.
Geamo Nov 23rd 2008 2:23PM
Interesting ideas. Hadn't thought of the last one until then.
magicswordking Nov 23rd 2008 3:12PM
What makes a lot more sense isn't that Arthas has something to do with Nozdormu's death, but that you have something to do with it. After all, the only constant character through all of the Caverns of Time instances is you. You stop the infinites at Durnholde, you stop the infinites at the dark portal, you stop them in stratholme.
If Nozdormu is the leader of the infinite dragonflight, he isn't trying to stop specific events from happening, he's trying to stop you from becoming powerful enough to eventually destroy him. In any of the above scenarios, wherein Arthas fails, Illidan fails, the Alliance/New Horde fail, your character will never enter the scene in the ways that you have.
As to why the Keepers of Time would want to help Arthas, they are not there to intervene, or interfere, they are always there to preserve, to guard time. For better or worse, they are the guardians, they are the gatekeepers, and their charge is to ensure that events play out as intended.
AJAlkaline Nov 23rd 2008 2:26PM
Let's face it, the Nozdormu raid will be just way too epic with the new phasing technology to not exist. Imagine a fight that you do over and over again, but each time new versions of yourself become involved, and you have to time certain items or abilities based on what you did in the past.
I personally hope we get a whole Caverns of Time expansion that will focus on him as the main enemy (in the same way that Arthas and Illidan were the foci of their own).
SixTwoSixFour Nov 23rd 2008 9:15PM
Holy crap, I just had an amazing idea. Okay, Nozdormu raid. First phase, you fight him down to like 30%... then the fight starts over. You're running back into the room just like the start of the fight. This time, he has a different strategy, but again, you best him. At 20%, he tries to throw you back to the start again... but timestream error. He's too injured, distracted, and screws it up. Instead, every member of the raid finds him/herself cut off from the rest of the raid, each against a Nozdormu. Crap, right? WRONG! You're fighting him with 39 of yourself from different moments in time! When you get him down to 10%, fight starts over one last time, and this time it's for real. Each member of the raid has, let's say, one of their copies persist for this fight- this copy uses your other spec, assuming dual specs are in by this point. Then you fight him all the way down, and finally kill him.
Technically, that would be a nightmare to code, and the copies would be a disaster for balance (40 warriors, none of them able to heal, for instance), but if they could work that out... that could well be the most amazing fight in any game I'd ever played.
Demozia Nov 23rd 2008 2:41PM
Wow This makes me want to read Lore about WoW
Isrephael Nov 23rd 2008 2:41PM
Perhaps it's just as simple as "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know."
Flamespawn Nov 23rd 2008 2:42PM
World of Warcraft: Caverns of Time does have a pretty nice ring to it. and going by all this insane theory-crafting; an awesome story to boot!
Chupathingy Nov 23rd 2008 2:41PM
Nozdormu, is most likely way too noble to attempt to stop his own death, especially since he's known about it from the beginning. My thought is perhaps Nozdormu does in fact die, and is rezzed as an undead, who use his powers in an attempt to crush their enemy before they were ever created.
On a side note about old strat, if those people weren't killed before the change, I'm sure arthas would still have chased Malganis to Northrend, the only difference would be that now he would have a city sized army in addition to what he already has.
ed Nov 23rd 2008 2:49PM
The quest text at the end of the chromie chain is hardly enough to implicate Nozdormu as the leader of the infinite dragon flight...
Nozdormu by himself, to quote wowiki...
"Nozdormu is difficult to defeat because of his ability to look into the corridors of time and repeat events if they do not progress as he feels they should. He is extremely wise and uses his insight to determine the best course of action before proceeding. Should this fail, he simply tries again as necessary, or uses his redo power to avoid the encounter entirely.
Nozdormu can take any form he desires, as though constantly under the effects of a shapechange spell. He frequently takes on the role of a humanoid creature and travels incognito as a simple commoner or peon. When doing this, the only consistent trait he displays is the absence of any need to hurry."
I seriously doubt that Nozdormu would need to manipulate both the mortal races and an entire dragon flight just to prevent his own death.
It makes more sense that the infinite flight are the spawn of the Old Gods. They seem to have made some significant gains in the emerald dream, and with Malygos going buck rogers on our ass and Nozdormu missing, it all clicks together nicely with a future expansion concept.
Cyanea Nov 23rd 2008 3:00PM
It was my theory that the Old Gods are corrupting the Dragonflights to sow chaos, drive a wedge between the mortal races, and cause a distraction before making their reappearance, given the depth to which this expansion goes into the lore of the Dragonflights, the Titans, and bringing up the Old Gods again after so long (which as far as I know were relegated to low-level dungeons in Azeroth before this). Deathwing goes crazy. Malygos goes crazy. If the theory about Nozdormu is correct, he's just yet another victim of their corruption.
Ilnara Nov 23rd 2008 3:14PM
"Nozdormu is difficult to defeat because of his ability to look into the corridors of time and repeat events if they do not progress as he feels they should. He is extremely wise and uses his insight to determine the best course of action before proceeding. Should this fail, he simply tries again as necessary, or uses his redo power to avoid the encounter entirely."
He sounds more like the 'Architect' from the Matrix put this way. Even the Architect knew the 'Neo' character needed to exist. The Architect was waiting, manipulating the outcomes, in order to find the 'one' that would 'save them all'. So the concept that Nozdormu is effectively engineering events to help him avoid death or achieve some other agenda is as plausible as any assumption at this point.
I think something else Wrath is doing well.. we're now CREATING lore, not living within the existing Lore that is the basis for the game. I think it's the players ultimately that will dictate what 'purpose' of the past lore served based on what we 'create' with what were given. Blizz gives is a base line, we fill in the peaks and valleys essentially.
Like one commenter has already said, and I concur, The phasing aspect of the game is going to bring us many many possibilities.
Cyanea Nov 23rd 2008 2:55PM
The Bronze Dragonflight's mission is to protect the timeline. Arthas culling Stratholme happened, the Infinite Dragonflight wants to stop it, so Chromie and friends have to make sure the culling goes off without a hitch. It's not a matter of liking it.
If in the future, centuries past the timeframe of WoW, the timeline calls for the Burning Legion to finally conquer Azeroth, then the Bronze Dragonflight would be there to keep anyone from interfering with that.
Firestride Nov 23rd 2008 2:56PM
Man, I can not keep up with this lore. Is there a web resource that can tell me what I need to know? Wowwiki has its uses, but it's poorly linked, frequently poorly written, and almost never updated for WotLK. I did read all the in-game books that they've got there in order, so I know the general sweep of events, but the stuff about the dragonflights, in particular, has been really hard for me to figure out.
Flint Nov 23rd 2008 3:12PM
The WoW Insider's very own Know Your Lore feature is a great way to read up on the lore, and if I recall correctly it tackled the dragon aspects at one point.
Firestride Nov 23rd 2008 3:32PM
Ah, yes, Know Your Lore does seem to be the way to go. I think I got it mixed up with "Ask A Lore Nerd," which, though excellent, is not organized in a good way for beginners.
Thanks!
Arrowsmith Nov 23rd 2008 2:58PM
I've always enjoyed the Caverns of Time because each instance seems to have a way to question your character's morals. What's a Dwarf doing freeing enslaved Orcs? Why is a Human helping bring the Orcs to Azeroth in the first place? What's a Troll doing helping a Human Paladin on a reign of terror, knowing it eventually leads to an evil assault on a tree they don't have anything to do with in the first place? And WHAT THE HECK is up with some of those Human disguises? I mean seriously, a Human wearing Druid Armor looks just plain silly.
I know that this would probably never happen, but I'd love to see a CoT instance where the Infinite Dragonflight is trying to stop the Orcs from drinking the blood of Mannoroth in the first place. But since that takes place on Draenor (Where the dragonflights have no power), I doubt it could be done from a lore standpoint. Still, it could be fun running around and making Orcs enraged.
Qpally Nov 23rd 2008 3:18PM
The Culling is roughly the beginning of Arthas' journey to joining with the Lich King. It is possible that there is lore as yet revealed as to why it is important that Arthas and only Arthas be the one to do this.
If Arthas were stopped, the Lich King could have just as well found a new body to play host to his armor. There has been speculation that we will not destroy the Lich King in the last raid of Wrath, but possibly purge or exorcise Ner'zhul from Arthas.
Its kinda Darth Vadery, but there could be some good left in Arthas that allows him to internally battle for his own redemption, weakening Ner'zhul enough for us to defeat him. Whereas a nonpaladin, a person with no attunement of the Light, would have less or no internal conflict of this kind, and the Lich King would be unstoppable. The choosing of Arthas as a host could be Ner'zhul's biggest mistake and Azeroth's only hope.
But thats only speculation. I have a feeling things will be clearer when we have all of the content of Wrath revealed.