Ask WoW Insider: The ninja debuff
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 24th 2008 at 5:00PM
This week on Ask WoW Insider, a reader has a suggestion, not a question, to put forth to you readers. It's about a problem lots of folks are having lately, with the servers as full as they are:One thing that has been annoying most people is the ninjas who spend their time waiting for players to take down a pat so they have unobstructed access to the quest items or loot/ore. It happened to me even with the Oil-stained Wolf quest last night in the expansion. People waiting to steal poo! Sick! Why should the players who take down the pat be disadvantaged and lose out on the ore?
The rest of the question and your chance to answer after the jump.
How hard is it to put a little mechanism into the game where if you run up to a node, you automatically get all the threat of the pat? A debuff might be a good solution, too -- if you steal the ore, you get a debuff which turns you into a slug with a high threat range, or an inability to get gold or drops. That will stop the ninjas, right?
Shalyn
It's an interesting idea -- generally, Blizzard keeps out of game mechanics and ingame mechanics separate, but a few times they've mixed them up (i.e. the AFK "Deserter" debuff you get when you leave a battleground early). What if they did have a debuff or some kind of ingame penalty for ninja-ing nodes, kills, or even items in raid groups? I think the coding would be tough to do (how do you know when someone means to ninja a node or not?), but the question remains: would a debuff like this stop ninjas for good? What do you think?
Answer in the comments below, and if you have a question for our readers, send it to ask@wow.com (please send questions in -- we need new question fodder), and you might see it next week.
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Mining, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Ask WoW Insider, Leveling
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 14)
Theostratus Nov 24th 2008 5:04PM
I'm s firm supporter of "It's not your ore until it's in your bag."
The reason; this game doesn't entitle you to anything, nothing is truely yours until you earn it. And killing mobs near a node or seeing it first doesn't make it your's.
And if people keeping getting "ninja-ed" then they have worse problems than not getting mats.
VSUReaper Nov 24th 2008 5:12PM
Well what about when I am mining something, and a rogue comes over with 2-3 mobs and pops vanish so that they attack me b/c I am in the agro radius? And while I fight the mobs off, he takes my node?
Or what about when I am mining a node, and the ninja starts mining it also? I think the fact that I am ALREADY mining the node makes it mine.
Both of these situations have been happening alot on my server, and frankly, I'm not afraid to report them for griefing.
I have a copy and paste complaint set up in word so all I have to do is insert the persons name, ctrl-c, and hit submit.
Works pretty well in my experience.
tormentum Nov 24th 2008 5:27PM
[QUOTE]Well what about when I am mining something, and a rogue comes over with 2-3 mobs and pops vanish so that they attack me b/c I am in the agro radius? And while I fight the mobs off, he takes my node?[/QUOTE]
Good on the rogue! That's just creative/amusing thinking! Again, if it's not in your bag, it's not yet yours. Re-roll a rogue and quit complaining.
Phargus Nov 24th 2008 5:46PM
@VSU:
If a rogue vanishes....the mobs go on evade and return to their original positions. They wouldn't aggro on you unless you were a pally mining in your consecration or something....and managed to do a little damage to them before he vanished.
Conversely though...when I am fighting a mob next to a quest item and someone comes up to ninja it. I like to vanish so the mob resets and attacks them...then I take the item while they have to fight it. I die laughing every time.
Worcester Nov 24th 2008 5:51PM
I'm okay with how things are now, but I do believe the very worst ninjas are the ones who start mining a vein that you are currently mining. That's just plain rude! Honestly, I could not live with myself if I did that...
And I play a rogue!
Chris V Nov 24th 2008 6:02PM
@Worcester:
1. When the loot window opens, leave it open - don't take the ore.
2. Go make a coffee / play the Bejewelled addon / whatever.
They'll get bored waiting.
Clbull Nov 24th 2008 6:27PM
No Tormentum. I wouldn't call that creative/amusing thinking. I'd call it being a jerk to the player who was trying to mine the node in the first place.
Btw, I support this idea.
Derick Nov 24th 2008 6:32PM
@ Phargus:
I've actually used this trick in the past. I was fighting some mobs to clear out a node, and then a shaman came up to steal it. So I ran at him, vanished and the mobs went onto him.
If mobs immediately reset after a vanish, Vanish would work a lot better than it does now.... As it is now, there is still the chance you'll be hit by their attacks, breaking stealth. This has happened to me a lot.
Feral Nov 24th 2008 6:42PM
And I'm a firm supporter of "Ninjaing a node makes you an asshole."
West Nov 24th 2008 7:05PM
sadly, you cannot fix bad behavior with code.
as suggested by many, tagging the ore might be a good start, but still imperfect as it could be exploited by the person trying to ninja the node too.
Balius Nov 24th 2008 7:10PM
The game entitles me to nothing...but it entitles you to nothing either. If you steal my nodes, I WILL follow you around and take everything you're after until you log off or take a flight path. I'm absolutely willing to drop quest items to make your day miserable for even longer if you've decided that that's the way we're going to interact. You took time from me, I'll volunteer even more of it to teach you a lesson.
It's by virtue of me not being actively interested in being a jackass to people in general that I don't ninja all the time. I more than have the capacity to, and you need to realize that if you're being a jerk, not everyone will roll over for you.
Max Nov 24th 2008 8:08PM
Seriously, suck it up and quit whining. It's not yours until its in your bag. I think the rogue doing that is hilarious. As a mage, its very easy to frost-lance tag mobs that I'm after before everyone else. Especially warlocks, because their dots take a moment to actually hit, so you can manage to tag it and still get the benefit of their dots.
Welcome to World of Warcraft - if you don't like it, gtfo.
shumanfu Nov 24th 2008 8:16PM
is there an asshole title/achievement yet? this would definitely qualify as key task to get it
RetPallyJil Nov 24th 2008 8:45PM
Glad you aren't on my server, you stinking ore-thief.
dpak Nov 24th 2008 9:00PM
This is a contradiction:
"The reason; this game doesn't entitle you to anything, nothing is truely yours until you earn it. And killing mobs near a node or seeing it first doesn't make it your's"
So, how do you "earn" it?
In my book, if you kill all the mobs on the approach, then someone else comes and gets it while you are on the last mob, then YOU earned it.
There is a reason spawn points are close to nodes, so people have to work for them (either in avoidance or killing). The person doing the work should get the reward.
Ulurjah Nov 24th 2008 9:19PM
@Worcester -- I routinely tap nodes that other people are mining. The failure still puts the node in my gatherer database. When the person is horde like me, I say in /say why I'm doing it... and they usually have no issue. Not everyone has nefarious intent.
Killchrono Nov 24th 2008 10:28PM
The problem with the system is that it punishes people who 'work' for the node and rewards those who do nothing. If a bunch of people are standing around a mob-guarded node, none of them are going to make the first move because that one person is going to loose out. The person who makes the first move and kills the mob is a sucker who looses out, while everyone else gets the ore.
There's a level of 'node ninja'ing' I tolerate. To me it's like a gold rush - everyone's in to make a profit, you have to get your resources while you can. What I don't like is how the game punishes people who take the intiative. It's negative re-inforcement, it encourages people to let others take a fall so you can benefit. That sounds a bit grandiose when talking about simple mining nodes, but I've met enough people in-game to know that their attitudes and actions usually reflect upon their own real life valuesl, and that's a disturbing precident to me.
Pål Nov 25th 2008 4:58AM
I'm a firm supporter of "it's not yours if others did the work for it". If there's a mob next to a mining node and you kill it, that's your node, and if anyone else wants it they should make sure you're not a miner. If you clear a path to a quest mob then other people should wait their turn.
There is another side to the issue, of course. Two, in fact. If there are several mobs near an herb then killing one doesn't entitle you to it, anyone who's fought one of them can take it. If someone else CCs the last mob and goes for the herb, then good on them. They fought the mobs for it.
And, of course, if someone can take the mob or node without taking advantage of your work then that's your loss. Clearing a path to a quest mob does not make the guy with a flying mount who came and took it an asshole, it just makes you unlucky. The same goes if the mob is spawned using a provided quest item with limitless charges (aka you did no work for it).
rosencratz Nov 25th 2008 5:30AM
There is no fix for this, people have been suggesting such things for the entire 4 years WoW has been about.
No debuff, or Blizz "fix" will stop jerks from being jerks, in the end it will only end up being more of a detriment to the honest people if Ninja's have a way to "tap" stuff or similar. The day such an idea might go live the suggestions and/or complaints forums will be full of people whining about how they were unjustifiably tagged as a ninja despite doing "the hard work"
You simply can't code common courtesy/sense into such people, if you could the entire world would be a better place.
On a side note though, i always simply flap on by people who're mining/herbing but when people steal my stuff it is a tad annoying. I need to get out of the habit of shift-clicking ore i guess but what really annoys me is when players from the same faction as me do it. if it's the oppposing factin i think "fair enough, all is fair in love and warcraft" but the same faction? Immediately on my ignore list so i might never raid/dungeon run with them.(Not that i stray far from guild runs these days)
That's the only answer though i'm afraid. Lead by example and if you can't acquire swift justice then let them end their days confused and friendless.
Pyrestorm Nov 25th 2008 8:44AM
"It's not yours until its in your bag. "
What's next, screaming FINDERS KEEPERS!!? Nanny nanny boo-boo! Do you have any idea of how childish this sounds?
If someone else does the work necessary to receive an award, who are you to steal it? Justifying rude behavior will always be easy for people who feel the need to, but your behavior is still your own, regardless of how you justify it.
I operate by the golden rule in game, I don't node steal because it pisses me off when it's done to me.
If it's the opposing faction, of course we fight over it. It's a given.