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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsAsk WoW Insider: The ninja debuff
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 24th 2008 at 5:00PM
This week on Ask WoW Insider, a reader has a suggestion, not a question, to put forth to you readers. It's about a problem lots of folks are having lately, with the servers as full as they are:One thing that has been annoying most people is the ninjas who spend their time waiting for players to take down a pat so they have unobstructed access to the quest items or loot/ore. It happened to me even with the Oil-stained Wolf quest last night in the expansion. People waiting to steal poo! Sick! Why should the players who take down the pat be disadvantaged and lose out on the ore?
The rest of the question and your chance to answer after the jump.
How hard is it to put a little mechanism into the game where if you run up to a node, you automatically get all the threat of the pat? A debuff might be a good solution, too -- if you steal the ore, you get a debuff which turns you into a slug with a high threat range, or an inability to get gold or drops. That will stop the ninjas, right?
Shalyn
It's an interesting idea -- generally, Blizzard keeps out of game mechanics and ingame mechanics separate, but a few times they've mixed them up (i.e. the AFK "Deserter" debuff you get when you leave a battleground early). What if they did have a debuff or some kind of ingame penalty for ninja-ing nodes, kills, or even items in raid groups? I think the coding would be tough to do (how do you know when someone means to ninja a node or not?), but the question remains: would a debuff like this stop ninjas for good? What do you think?
Answer in the comments below, and if you have a question for our readers, send it to ask@wow.com (please send questions in -- we need new question fodder), and you might see it next week.
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Mining, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Ask WoW Insider, Leveling
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 14)
Guunge Nov 25th 2008 9:07AM
Since we can only get one skill point of a node, why not just make mining nodes like herb nodes - 1 use and you get the full random load.
Yes, this is only a game, blah-blah-blah, but people expend their time on it, thus giving it value in their eyes.
If you ninja, if you grief, if you ignore the generally accepted conventions of polite behavior, then you are scum.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Nov 25th 2008 9:27AM
I'm a firm believer that if you hit the node first and some a$$hole comes out afterwards and starts mining it while you're there, then they're the a$$hole. Show some courtesty and let the person who arrived first mine the damn thing. It's rude to start mining on them when they're obviously there first. I had an undead do this to me, it annoyed the hell out of me.
And for those people who jump down after you're fighting the pat that aggroed onto you and steal the node, there should be a TAG to player buff that lasts a minute that pretty much states. "THIS belongs to the person who was HERE first and who got stopped because of this damn pat." Nothing sucks more when you're in the area, YOU SEE IT FIRST, but on the way over mobs spawn and aggro onto you. Then the next guy comes over after you've invested time into killing this thing, usually when you're almost done, and steals it.
Nodes should be taggable to the first person who gets there and if the person leaves the area in a certain radius, it can then revert back to free for all.
It's funny how some people think entitlement is their right because they're NOT doing the work to clear to it. Um. Riight. These are the same people who bitch when the tables are reverse.
adam83 Nov 25th 2008 9:32AM
If you are mining/herbing where others are, they have just as much right to be there as you. I agree it is rude if they snag a node while you are fighting a mob, but on my mage I don't have a gathering prof. If I am fighting near nodes, should people have to wait for me only to find that I had no intentions for the nodes? Besides if someone is stealing nodes while you fight, wait for them to fight and steal their nodes. Or just leave the area. When farming primals I always leave when I see another player show up. It isn't like there aren't tons of places to farm. A debuff would just hurt people who really didn't "ninja" the nodes. What if you have a pocket body guard who is protecting you while you mine? Would you keep getting the debuff?
Ktok Nov 25th 2008 11:54AM
"I'm s firm supporter of "It's not your ore until it's in your bag.""
What we have here is someone who is an ore ninja, or as we called them in EQ2, a "node humper". If he was the one being disadvantaged, you had better believe he'd be less inclined to promote the virtues of this behavior.
You, sir, are vile. Your concept of fair play is horribly twisted, and I seriously doubt you extend these a-hole tendencies to real life for fear of having your face caved in.
Remember kids, don't be a jerk in game unless you're willing to be a jerk in real life where someone can physically hurt you. Otherwise, you're just a coward.
jrizutko Nov 25th 2008 11:27AM
WoW is a competetive game. I don't personally ninja anything from anyone, because i think its childish. I do compete with other people trying to ninja a node or quest item often enough that I have found my own ways of dealing with the competition. If they get it, so be it. There's more ore, and more quest items. I'll win my fair share, because I'm crafty too.
kworry Nov 25th 2008 12:28PM
Call me skeptical but the posters who don't seem to have a problem with people taking a node you fought your way to are probably the very people who are doing just that. A rogue aggroing mobs onto you isn't clever in the least; people have been doing that for ages.
ZekeGrimsblade Nov 25th 2008 1:16PM
Ok, so everyone you people voted down, who was saying that ninja'ing was acceptable, awesomeness. There've been many times I'd fly into an area and wait to see if that priest fighting the scythe handed guy by the node was mining or not, before I started mining. Most of the time, they were, and that was just another opportunity lost to me. When I am landbound, I've even helped someone finish off the mob to find out if they were after the node or not.
However, a post that you all voted down, seriously concerns me. Here we are in virgin territory, or Northrend, and as most of you who have ever used a gathering addon such as Gatherer, Cartographer mining, or Gathermate, my personal favorite, you will know that....... THERE IS NO DATABASE of Northrend. In the interest of making mining easier on EVERYONE by Sharing my data, I've been severely tempted to take a single hit on a mine that someone else was mining because it would put it in the database. I know of 3 separate nodes in little travelled areas that are not yet in my database, after multiple updates from wowhead. Why you voted down:
Ulurjah said...
@Worcester -- I routinely tap nodes that other people are mining. The failure still puts the node in my gatherer database. When the person is horde like me, I say in /say why I'm doing it... and they usually have no issue. Not everyone has nefarious intent.
I don't know. Because while I will wait before mining near where someone is fighting, I'm tempted to do this myself. Do I support a software solution? Yeah, I think so. However, my problem with that is where do you stop. Personally, I want an instanced mining field. I don't want it too easy, but where exactly do you draw the line?
On a final note...
There's a mob by the node? So what, as a hunter, I just let my pet engage the mob, and I go after the mining node. A quick FD, and I'm golden. I do feel sometimes like I've got an unfair advantage. I just don't know where the solution lies.
Chuck (Vampfury) Nov 25th 2008 3:36PM
To ninja is just rude, but it happens and on occasion it happens when the other player doesn't even realize. I was collecting crates and I grabbed one while the other player had yanked the mob just around the corner so he didn't aggro more. He came around the corner and said "man, I was fighting the mob to get that", so I helped him grab a bunch by smacking the mobs while he picked up. General rule is I always ask for or if I can invite someone to help. On ore, I may hover, but ask if the person fighting near mines - if no answer I wait, while sitting on the ore, if they were I let them have it - that's just polite.
Now in the case of horde (since I am Alliance) I will on the occasion ninja from them. I got into a ninja battle with and Orc out in Netherstorm - getting the parts from the Ethereals. We sorta went back and forth - he started it, so I figure fair game.
Never been in a ninja situation that was drastic enough to report or get overly upset about.
James Nov 24th 2008 5:04PM
I've had some horde do this to me in Sholazar and I pick flowers, I make sure to give them a corpse run for their troubles.
Cwilks Nov 24th 2008 5:05PM
Well . . not a bad idea but it's kinda like that Aesop's Fable about the mice putting a bell on the cat's neck. If they could do it, it would be great, but how will Blizzard do it?
I mean in just basic programming it's still difficult to make if then statements. Imagine how hard it would be to do this.
FIRST!
Todd Nov 24th 2008 5:09PM
First?
oldwisemonk Nov 24th 2008 5:18PM
I think tapping a node already generates some aggro, so they'd just have to make it generate a LOT more.
Thing is ... it wouldn't fix it. Ninjas would wait until mobs were cleared. I'd still support it.
Aside from that, though, I wouldn't want them to do much else babysitting in the world of looting. Maybe make it so mobs summoned with items or by a quest are already tapped by the person who summoned him/her.
Chris Anthony Nov 24th 2008 8:51PM
This is why claiming "first!" is categorically stupid. Especially when you actually have something to say.
VikingSven Nov 24th 2008 5:06PM
Another way would be to make it so nodes can't be mined if anyone at all is in combat near by
Finnicks Nov 24th 2008 5:58PM
Maybe it's actually not this simple but...
Add a subroutine to the start of every combat.
At the same time that it executes the code that "taps" the mob to you, have it check within 15 yards for any herb or mining nodes. If it finds a mining node, it checks to see if you're a miner capable of mining it. If you are, it automatically taps it to you. And the same for nearby herb nodes.
This way, if you pull the mob near the node, it's reasonable to assume that, as an herbalist, you're after the node, thus it becomes yours provided the monster doesn't kill you. And that locks out ninjas who then run up and mouse over it and see "Tapped by " in the tooltip.
Ahoni Nov 25th 2008 8:07AM
@ Viking
That won't work. I'm a warlock. If I want to pick an herb and there is a mob guarding it, I send the pet in, pick the herb, then kill the mob. What if I'm grouped with someone and they are fighting a mob a few feet away?
@Finnicks
This would lead to much worse griefing. I can see asshats flying around and killing a single mob all over the place just to tag everything to them. What if two people arrive at the same time? Do you tag at the start of combat or the end?
It works the way it is. You can't legislate or program out asshats. Some people will always be that way. They have mental problems. Whatever system you employ, they will exploit.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Nov 25th 2008 9:38AM
Instead of doing all that, just wait for the person to actually start mining it. Then have THAT tag to the player for a certain number of minutes/and to a certain radius from the mine.
OR!
Get rid of the damn interrupt abilitity of mining, herbing etc. This way you can do it WHILE in battle.
Kargon Nov 25th 2008 12:53PM
Deadly Off Topic has it right, either of those would fix it and sound easier to code than having nodes check for players in combat or something.
expat28 Nov 24th 2008 5:08PM
To be honest it happens so much to me, I haven't felt much guilt over doing it to others - especially of the opposite faction. As a druid with swift flight form it's extremely easy to nab an herb or item and if someone tries to repay the favor, a quick aggro-shadowmeld does the trick. If it's the same faction, I may think twice but you can lose half an hour on crowded realms fighting for sparkly items.
Cwilks Nov 27th 2008 10:53PM
Curses!
@ 1 & 2
you guys type to fast! This was going to be my first first :P
lol