Officers' Quarters: (Group)
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.With every expansion comes a slew of new quests, many of whom have that word at the end that's both aggravating and exciting: (Group). It's exciting because the rewards are generally better. But it's aggravating because now you need a few extra hands on deck to move forward with the questline.
Finding help with these quests is easy when everyone is still leveling. But eventually most of your guild will be 80, and those lagging behind or leveling up secondary characters won't have as much luck finding groups. In a month or two, guild chat across every server will be filled with people asking for assistance. In small, tight-knit guilds, it won't really be an issue. Ironically, it's usually people in the larger guilds who have trouble finding groups -- and we as officers can wind up providing most of the help. This week, one reader wants to know how to prevent this scenario.
Hi Scott. I'm the assistant GM of a guild with over 400 members (225-250 accounts), and an issue that keeps coming up is the lack of response for help, either with instances or quests. The problem I have faced personally is that at one point I went out of my way to help anyone who has asked and eventually had to make an alt to hide on. If I logged onto my main I couldn't accomplish anything that I wanted to do since all I did was help others. This also happened to one of my Officers. Then there are those who won't help anyone at all unless there is something involved that they need.
Also some members feel there are cliques forming within the guild and that they won't help others not in their inner circle. I know that happens where people play together a lot, but it's because they like to group together and are friends. I have never noticed they exclude people and have seen them help others but that is the perception.
I can't make anyone help others and can only suggest in the guild message of the day or on our website that people be more aware and helpful. Is there anything you or the readers would suggest?
Thanks,
Darr
This is common in very large guilds such as yours, Darr. Guild chat becomes almost like general chat when you don't really know who half of the people in your guild are. How many times do you go out of your way for someone who's asking for help in general?
It's also common for cliques to form as people find others in the guild they get along with. In a large guild, you're definitely not going to get along with everyone. This doesn't have to be a bad thing. In fact, it probably prevents some drama. The people complaining about this situation are probably feeling left out, but that's a topic for a whole other column . . .
My guild isn't exactly small, either (150+ accounts with tons of alts). And every once in a while someone complains that no one replies to requests for help in guild chat. When I hear these complaints, what I recommend they do is to ask people in whispers rather than in guild chat. For one thing, people tend to ignore guild chat when they're focused on something. Also, people sometimes have the mentality that, in such a big guild, someone else will surely step up.
To me there's a vast difference between asking in guild chat and whispering someone. In a large guild, asking for help in guild chat is almost like begging for change on the street. You're not asking anyone in particular. You're just hoping that a kind-hearted soul will notice you and help you out. There's something mildly undignified about it.
It sort of depends on how you phrase it, too. In my mind, "Does anyone else need to do Quest X?" is a far cry from "Can someone help me with Quest X?" The former says, "I have it under control and I'm just checking to see if anyone else wants to come along. But if you just want to help me out, that's great too!" The latter says, "I'll never get this done on my own unless you help me."
When you whisper someone, on the other hand, you're directly asking them for help. It's not so much begging as it is asking a friend for a favor.
By recommending to your members that they make use of whispers, you're also encouraging them to get to know each other better. After all, if there's no one in the guild that will help you when you're directly asking them, then you probably haven't made much of an effort for others in the past.
If your members are feeling alienated in the guild's vast roster of players, a good way to get people mixing a bit more is to hold some contests or events. Design them so that anyone can participate, and give away prizes that make it worthwhile to attend.
Having said all that, you and the other officers can't be the good Samaritans of the guild to the exclusion of your own enjoyment! When you say yes too many times, people will eventually expect you to drop everything and come to their rescue. You have to set some ground rules for yourself.
Finish what you're working on before you leave to help (unless it's going to take hours, obviously). It's not too much to ask for someone to have a little patience when you're giving up some of your time. Also, don't give away so many items and/or so much cash that you go bankrupt.
Officers have some alternatives to doing it all ourselves. For instance, we can play matchmaker. If you know someone needs to do the same quest that someone else is requesting help with, recommend they get in touch with that person. It may be someone they've never really quested with, and it could be a great opportunity for members of two cliques to get to know each other.
Sometimes when I see a larger than normal number of people asking for help, I'll schedule a night where I offer my services to anyone who needs it. I'll announce it in advance and will not turn down anyone, of any level, for questing, rep grinding, recipe farming, running any dungeon, etc. The trick is to set a solid time frame, say two or three hours. Make it toward the end of a week. Then, when people ask throughout the week, tell them that you're busy now, but if they can wait till Friday night you'll help them with anything. That sets some clear boundaries between time that is yours and time that you're offering up to the guild.
If people can't wait that long, maybe they'll take some initiative and try other means of getting the quest done -- besides relying on the generosity of their officers.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Steven Pattingale Nov 24th 2008 1:09PM
Good article. Good advice too. General guild chat can be a lonely place sometimes.
Jane Gray Nov 24th 2008 2:58PM
I used to be an officer for a levelling guild and our rule was you could only ask to be run through an instance if you could get together a full group to do so. This made the begging a lot less rare because mostly it was just people who wanted to be lazy and have a higher up do all the work for them (most common of all in twinks). A lowbie who put in the effort to make a group of 3 or 4 has earned the help.
romiress Nov 24th 2008 1:12PM
I definately agree with setting aside time for leadership to help members - but why not extend that to all higher ups? Even a level 62 can be helpful to those below them, and it's a nice feeling to help someone out. :)
Guido666 Nov 24th 2008 2:51PM
They certainly can, but as an officer there is a certain amount of duty to doing so.
I try to encourage our members to be specific, and try to do it first. By that I mean, don't ask "Can I get help in Zangarmarsh?", but ask "Can I get help killing Boglash?". The new ability to link quests makes that even better.
Along those lines, I don't mind helping someone get "unstuck" so that they can continue questing, by coming and killing an elite. I don't want to waste an hour dragging them through ZF just because they can't/won't find a group.
Low level people see those at level cap, or near it, and think we've done it all and can just come use our unneeded time to do their work for them. They are understandably ignorant to the fact that once you reach max level, your expenditure of time goes through the roof.
This has become very apparent lately with all the new death knights. Nobody wants to tank, and they can't heal. So they all want the high level tanks and healers to come run them through dungeons.
mihn Nov 24th 2008 1:18PM
While I agree with whispering, it also creates more of a clique environment if you whisper. Making guild chat the opposite of general, a ghost town with everyone whispering to one another. Ive been in guild that immediately party up so they don't have to talk on guild chat.
Using the stranger begging on the street mentality, if I recived a whisper from a guildie that I didn't know I would try to get out of helping them Unless I have grouped with them before. Although, being a rogue, no one really asks me for help anyway. I'm not a Tank or healer class. No one needs rogues except for lock boxes.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Nov 24th 2008 5:03PM
The problem I see with whispers is that while it might garnish some help from people, the person who resorts to whispers usually spams a bunch of people and gets very demanding if they don’t get their way. I’m NOT saying all people do this, I have been paged by people asking in a polite way, but I’ve also seen a lot of selfish players page others and whine and bitch at them.
It really does focus on the mentality of the player. Thankfully, I’m in a guild where most of the people are adults. We ask in guild and help if we can.
JdJdJd Nov 24th 2008 1:20PM
This might be a bit regimented, but a weekly schedule of every higher level character who will volunteer 2 or 3 hours a week to helping lower levels out might work in a large guild. Perhaps there might be enough to have a few folks every night of the week with the list posted somewhere. That way lots of people are available to help without the burden being too great for any one person.
Nails Nov 24th 2008 1:22PM
Oh yeah, and by the way, Wrath is so freaking easy that about 80% of the group quests are soloable. If it doesn't have a [5] next to it, you should be able to do it yourself
Mihn Nov 24th 2008 1:35PM
I think I have become dumber from reading the above commment.
At 77 I couldn't solo the Conquest pit. Nor get the plume of Alystros(sp)
You must be a druid or Pally.
Spiders Everywhere Nov 24th 2008 1:51PM
It depends, but there really are a lot of quests that claim to require 2 or 3 people that are easily solable at the level you get them. Bottom line: give it a try solo before you spend a bunch of time trying to get a group.
Salacia Nov 24th 2008 1:52PM
Totally depends on your class. Try soloing a group quest on a priest.
Cysgodi Nov 24th 2008 2:54PM
I solo group quests as a Holy Priest all the time. The mobs just have to (1) have lower than 30k HP, (2) not be immune to fear, or (3) be slow enough to kite with SW:P. If any of those apply, I can solo the quest.
nokturnus Nov 25th 2008 11:47AM
@9 Don't worry Mihn, there is nothing what could possibly make you dumber in that comment. In fact the way you react to someone else's opinion sugests that you have been dumb for quite a while already.
kae Nov 24th 2008 1:25PM
Our guild has about 90 accounts, and we encourage the philosophy of paying it forward. We can't always help those who've helped us, but we encourage people to try and help someone they can.
We also encourage our officers who are 'helpful' to finish what they're doing. If the member is really impatient, and/or truly doesn't need as much help, this gives them a slot of time to do something else about it before we need to.
On our website, we're constantly reminding folks to communicate their needs, and one of our higher member ranks is a reward for having balance - giving back and not just 'taking'. I think part of it comes down to culture - we have culture where the occassional 'lend-a-hand' is expected, and if people 'complain' about not getting help, we ask who they've helped recently.
I will generally make an exception to 'dawdling' before helping folks, if they are the kinds of folks who often help others. If a guildee hardly ever asks for help, and is helpful themselves, I'm more willing to immediately drop what I'm doing and jump at the chance to help them. :D
Rohannor Nov 24th 2008 1:31PM
Our guild personally does not encourage especially newer members to go around whispering people for help. That gets annoying and is akin to begging. Most members are 70+ and if you are new, lower lvl and asking for help all the time you will get a reputation as "needy."
Also in general I think people are less likely to help newer members as people constantly get burned by helping people who are going to likely end up leaving your guild anyway. I'm more than willing to help the guildies I know, but less so to help those I don't who just joined for precisely that reason. We make no bones about the fact that we are a high lvl guild and are not in the business of bringing people up from the lower lvls. If you are advancing on your own toward 80, great let's go. If you are asking to be "run threw" somewhere (they always misspell it, then forget it.
Netherscourge Nov 24th 2008 1:32PM
I had a similar issue. I was a MT during the Pre-BC days for my guild.
When BC came out, I got bugged constantly to help people which cause me to have no time to work on my own character.
So I got fed up and rolled up an anonymous alt, that nobody in the guild knew about.
Well, I wound up falling in love my with ALT, but I wanted to go back to the guidl and leve lup my Main. I went back to my Warriror main and starting asking people in the guild to help me catch up to them - of course, they all went on doing their own thing and never helped me.
So F-them!
I quit the guild and nevber looked back.
It's amazing how much fun the game is when you are no longer being bugged every 5 minutes to help people who won't lift a finger to help you.
Screw them. I'm much happier now.
Vendrill Nov 24th 2008 1:32PM
I run a small guild on my server. It is small, because we are very selective as to who is in the guild.
I have no desire whatsoever to turn it into a 200 person guild.
Especially now, since 10 man raiding is a more viable option in WotLK.
Be selective as to whom you invite to your guild. Set standards for for your officers as far as invites go. DO NOT let just anyone invite people into your guild.
Bigger is not better, IMHO.
And as far as helping everyone all of the time: Being a helpful GM is good, being a martyr sucks.
Zali Nov 24th 2008 1:35PM
I was in a guild that had a Guildie of the Week Award. During the week, if someone was extra helpful, you could go to the guilds website and nominate that person. The winner walked away with a tidy little sum of 100G on Saturday after progression raid.
bynde Nov 24th 2008 1:40PM
I wish Blizz would get a way to have smaller guilds to be able to 'cartel' with other small Guilds.
Some of us like our Guilds even tho they may be too small to depend upon for larger instances or raids. I've noticed a few other smaller guilds having the same problem. Instead of melding the smaller Guilds into one larger Guild it would be helpful if there was a way to cooperate with certain guilds and borrow from each other when players are needed. IOW, there would be no shared GB, but a schedule or calander that could be shared. IDK. But, some device that would help smaller Guilds join together for certain quests or instances.
Fatpunk Nov 24th 2008 11:42PM
Thats a good idea have u posted it on the bliz forums? a blue mite see it and do something ;-)