Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsGhostcrawler: Wrath's difficulty is where we want it
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 29th 2008 at 5:00PM
One of the biggest concerns we've heard from players since the expansion launched is that everything is too easy -- not only did the hardcore raiders burn down the PvE endgame content in a matter of days, but upgrades aren't really what they used to be, and anyone with some solid gear that blow through most of the instances without too much trouble. Which begs the question: is Wrath too easy?No, according to our buddy Ghostcrawler. He says that Blizzard's goal this time around was to avoid the Karazhan mistake from the last expansion, where players butted their heads up against tougher content in the early endgame. GC says that Blizzard certainly knows how to make tougher content, but they'd rather everyone got a turn this time around.
The only question I have left is why they didn't include it all in the same release -- Blizzard seems to be saying that harder content is on the way, but wouldn't it be more prudent to have both easy and hard content in at the same time? As a casual player, I'm thrilled to hear that the endgame is easier -- I'll get to see more of it. But we've got two versions of each endgame instance now -- do they both have to be easy enough to conquer in a few days?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Expansions, Raiding, The Burning Crusade, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
boronak Nov 29th 2008 9:09PM
I am sick to death of hearing this so can we stop with it now. Blizz is sick of making content for a very small portion of its customers and has done something to change this. If you were expecting sunwell 2 forget it its not gonna happen. I much prefer raids as they are now been more about fun rather than insane time spent perfecting them and before someone calls me a scrub or a bad player, I was in a top 100 guild that cleared sunwell back in july. I hate to burst bubbles but these elitist pro's that are complaining aren't super gods of gaming, they are simply players who play far more time than the people they call scrubs. Gear doesn't equal skill.
Yada Nov 29th 2008 10:03PM
Never seen so much epeen-thrusting baloney in my entire life. One group of professional (yes they get paid to play--it's not a game to them, it's work) gamers clears the expansion and suddenly it's all "oh QQ the game is too ezmode QQ."
Grow up. Normal people are not clearing the current 25-man raids in their quest greenies without healers. Yes, the encounters are easier to master if you have some brains, a decently cooperating group, some talent, and some decent gear. What of it? The brain trust decided that this time you wouldn't have to grind endless dungeons in hopes of gearing up enough to BEGIN the end game. That is just fine with me. And I will be a week's pay it's just fine with the majority of the umpteen million playing the game.
"...do they both have to be easy enough to conquer in a few days?" For dog's sake, Mike, at least do a little research before you spout nonsense as if it was a fact. Enviagra mean absolutely NOTHING.
Deb Nov 30th 2008 12:30PM
"GC says that Blizzard certainly knows how to make tougher content, but they'd rather everyone got a turn this time around."
Thank you, thank you. For the first time ever I have been able to solo an elite as a holy priest. No longer are they out of my reach to be abandoned.
Perderedeus Nov 30th 2008 9:14AM
To all those who would chime in with a pithy "lol this isn't a single player game" or "L2Raid noob" ... please, do humanity a favor and stop breeding. Thanks!
Your way of playing is not the only way to play this game, or any game. YOU can raid. Some people cannot devote that much time to the game. In Wrath, more people of varying playstyles can experience more of the game... nothing is stopping you from raiding your eyeballs out. And now, less and less is stopping others from seeing some of the 'high end' content they've been helping fund for the past 4 years as well.
Warcloud Nov 29th 2008 11:22PM
You want Naxx to be the introductory raid, make it nice and easy, fine. But what happened with the later stuff? How was Malygos quickly killed by a guild still in Sunwell gear? That seems like a tuning mistake to me.
Kuri Nov 29th 2008 11:29PM
So you've cleared the 25 man Naxx have you? Well /clap. I notice you're not on a Proto Drake though. Could it be that you simply downed the bosses? For shame. For shame.
People who are complaining about the ease of the content have obviously not gone looking for the challenge of it. Sure you can down Faerlina, but can you do it with her enraged the entire time? Sure you can do the Heigan dance, but can your entire raid? Sure you can drop Thaddius, but can you do it without downies dying in the polarity switches?
Oh, you've gotten some of those? How about ALL of them. All in one lockout period. THAT is the challenge. And once you're able to do that, do it with less than 9 people, in the 10 man, or less than 23 in the 25 man.
Unless you're doing that, you have no place complaining that it's still too easy.
Shady Nov 30th 2008 12:32AM
@Driphter
I understand what you mean about music and film; though I place most of the blame on the undiscriminating youth demographic that so happens to be the biggest casual spenders. And perhaps I can see your point, that in your view WoW is becoming the Christmas comedy of video games: something that everybody will go see anyway (some begrudgingly so) even though each year's pick seems more dumbed down than the one before it.
However, I disagree with that perception. It's not that Blizzard is trying to make all of the game available to everyone... it's that they are trying to make the dividing line not be lore-centric or location-centric. Before now, if you didn't have the time, dedication, or people skills to run end-game raids, you missed out of massive chunks of the game... you would lose all of the Ragnaros and Black Flight chains, you would never see Illidan or Kil'Jaeden defeated. This is the equivalent of missing out on a huge chunk of War III lore because it's restricted to ladder players in the highest tier.
What I think Blizzard is going for is the setup you mentioned in your very first post: same content on different difficulties. There will be other dungeons and they will get harder, but their current goal is to make sure that most people can see all of it on Easy (i.e. 10-man or w/e) difficulty setting. Everyone else can play it on Hard if they so chose, though they will get no extra benefit out of it besides better gear. To me that seems like the only fair way to address most of the concerns of the player base.
Andrew Nov 30th 2008 12:35AM
I think the bigger problem here is that Blizzard chose to make an introductory "easy" raid an apparently undertuned large raid with a ton of bosses. I agree that Kara had too large a step-up (especially when it first came out and even getting attuned wasn't easy), but the solution is to make a separate smaller introductory raid. Make a 10 man raid with say 5 bosses that is difficulty wise similar to a heroic. Then keep Naxx at an appropriate difficulty level.
Under this kind of system, hard-core raiders may still be able to step directly into a Naxx level raid (although it would be challenging), but casual raiders can get an intermediate step of gear to help them as they progress into it. This also addresses the problem of casual guilds dealing with a large initial raid. The introductory raid needs to be short.
I do understand that Blizz is probably doing this to some degree with Naxx, in that Naxx is undertuned and Ulduar will probably require Naxx gear as a base. However, casual guilds are still going to have trouble with Naxx as it is, not because of the difficulty level but the sheer number of bosses.
The Avatar of Blue Nov 30th 2008 12:41AM
What I'm guessing Blizzard's plan for progression this time around is that because of the influx of newcomers to wow -- they'll start the earlier raids easier, a so-called raid training grounds, and then increase the difficulty as they introduce more content.
While this may irk old-school hard core raiders, Blizzard must cater to their bread & butter customers, the average joe casual player.
So -- give blizzard some time, and I'm sure more difficult content will be introduced in upcoming patches.
your friendly neighborhood retadin Nov 30th 2008 2:05AM
"ret dps is where we want it"
"don't nerf me bro!"
Bossy Nov 30th 2008 2:26AM
So sorry for those "hardcore guys".
I laugh at you. I am 75 today and I started playing WotLK at the first day.
I READ my quests, I do NOT use add ons to help me (like that pathetic questhelper) and I don't use the help webs either.
I am playing the game like I would play Oblivion. And it's perfect. I am doing about 1/3 of a level per day. Broken up in two sessions even of a few hours.
We agreed in our guild to start raiding at the end of December and that's fine with most. We were around at around 35th position in TBC as a guild on our server and 8 out of 140 are 80 now.
That's the way to play such a beauty. I LAUGH at those so called hardcore.
I have brutal gladiator ger as a Holy Pala, most of them 80's can't even get a decent 1800 + rating on their characters.
So try to L2P first before doing a "power" level which requires NO skill at all
And if you WANT to do time play: make yourselves a new Justicar title. Even the way I play the thing I could do it in anbout 3 months time at 4 hours per day played.
Summary: Learn to play and enjoy the game HOW it is designed: Play hardcore when it is NEEDED, but leveling is NO part of hardcore playing styles.
Nor downing level 72 dungeons as a level 80.
Ceora Nov 30th 2008 3:24AM
Congratulations.. noone cares.
Grynd Feb 11th 2009 12:22AM
The Justicar title is not new. It's been around since preTBC when people could turn in BG marks for reputation. It was never removed, it's always been available, but people did not know about it.
It's great that you're enjoying the game how you want to, but you're no prophet for not using questhelper...
Bossy Nov 30th 2008 2:32AM
OP:
I am fed up with these comments of writer who say:
"content conquered in a few days".
That's pathetic: NO one - anyone - is conquering the content in a few days.
Not a sole: just read what a few idiots do and how they do down a few end bosses.
But in NO way is content "conquered in a few days". Just grab the overview of the achievelents for dungeons and raids.
it will take several months even for the very hardcore to achive 50% of what is being mentioned in the achievements for PVE.
And for PVP it could take a full year even.
Gothia Nov 30th 2008 3:31AM
It is people like you and your guilds that have ruined this noble game to begin with. The elite punks that treat this game like a full time job. You have driven up the markets because you are the only ones that have a shot at the good gear or mats or enchants or recipes. STFU, now we have an even playing field that everyone has a chance to excel.
If you like "old" content so much reroll a 60 and play it.
Tildy Nov 30th 2008 4:34AM
@driphyer
Your guild, as you describe it, is well-coordinated and lightly to moderately hardcore.
I'm glad that more casual players than yourself (and guild) may have a better chance to experience the creative and entertaining encounters and environments that WoW has to offer in WotLK.
I stand by my prior reasoning and belief that the difficulty of WoW in WotLK moves in the right direction.
Grynd Feb 11th 2009 12:20AM
@ArchVile125
Why do you make yourself a hypocrite by complaining about a flamer, then throwing petty insults at the guy.
why is there so much venom in your post?
Why do you make so many assumptions?
My guild raided 3 days a week in TBC, and I saw first kills thoughout BT and beat Kalecgos. I was Hand of A'dal before3.0. You didn't need to be hardcore nolifer to have accomplished things in TBC raiding...
Our GM has a wife and children, and many in my guild are successful in RL as they are in the game. Those kind of assumptions hurt the wow community and give a bad impression of players of the game.
Vicious comments from people like you give a bad impression of players of this game and sometimes make the game not a nice thing to play... you should learn to bite your tongue and treat people you speak to online as people, not springboards for your inflated ego.
I think the OP made some very valid comments. "But we've got two versions of each endgame instance now -- do they both have to be easy enough to conquer in a few days?" especially rings true to me. Seeing content, and beating everything the game has to offer, should not be one and the same.
Heroic raids seemed like a good idea, but if the heroic version is as little challenge as the normal version then what is the point?
Elmo Nov 30th 2008 6:47AM
I think the problem wasn't so much Karazhan but was Gruul's Lair and Magtheridon.
especially Magtheridon was too complicated for an early raid.
also from Kael'thas/Vashj to MH and BT was quite oddly a decrease of difficulty.
Crimsonbelt Nov 30th 2008 7:07AM
All they have done is pushed the bar up 10lvls for people to shout out "LFM for must have full epic + experienced"
Well done =/
Odok Nov 30th 2008 7:40AM
I'm fine with Naxx being easy. I don't want to spend weeks learning the 15 bosses of the instance, especially when folks are coming into it with blues. Not to mention Naxx is king of the trash mobs (though it's been thankfully reduced) and the marathon boss fight. 15 minute bosses suck enough without having to do wipe after wipe on them.
Sartharion is mixed feelings. On one hand, it's laughably easy. On the other, it can be incredibly hard. Now that I've gotten a bit of perspective, I'd say it's perfect the way they implemented it. More tier gear early on only helps raids get on their feet. If guilds get bored, this is the optional difficult encounter that they can cut their teeth on.
Malygos is wholly disappointing. I was expecting this to be like pre-nerf Magtheridon. Malygos is such a huge part of the lore and it doesn't do him justice to plop him in an easy beginner raid. I really don't have a problem spending a week or two learning a boss with zero trash and a quick recovery time. Oh well, at least the encounter looks amazing and feels a lot more epic than it really is.