Ask a Lore Nerd: The heads and tails of the Horde
Welcome to Ask a Lore Nerd, where each week blogger and columnist Alex Ziebart answers your questions about the lore and history of the World of Warcraft. Ask your questions in the comments section below, and we'll try to answer it in a future edition.This week on Ask a Lore Nerd, we're only answering a small number of questions, because they're really good ones and I want to dork out over them a little. Let's get started, shall we?
Mornash asked...
Speaking of Garrosh Hellscream, what do you think Blizzard has in store for us with his story. They're portraying him like his father was, a bloodthirsty, arrogant, loose cannon. Are they going to have him repeat past mistakes? Maybe bring about another downfall? Or will Saurfang and Thrall get through to him and have him ultimately become a hero?
I'm not so sure that Garrosh will be redeemed or convinced to chill out or any of that, but I won't say it's impossible either. First reason for that, he's one of the catalysts to the "putting the war back in Warcraft" thing that most people have wanted for so long, and the writers have decided was necessary.
Two, Thrall needs Someone to butt heads with or he becomes just a figurehead character. He exists, but you stop caring after awhile. There's obviously a ton of corruption in the Horde and plenty of people going against his vision, but you can't fight an idea or a concept the fun, literal sense. Thrall can't fight against the Orcs that want to return to the old ways in a way that players will find exciting unless there is a face to that concept. Garrosh is the embodiment of the Orcs that long for the days of the Old Horde. A struggle against Garrosh is a struggle for the direction of the New Horde. By overcoming Garrosh, Thrall would take another step toward reforming the Orcs, and we'd experience it in a way that's exciting, not just propaganda and other boring stuff that nobody would care about in an MMO.
On the other hand, Thrall's losses are a gain for the Orcs that want to be savage murderers. I think Thrall's loss in Orgrimmar kind of drives that point home. Thrall the modernist more or less lost his duel with Garrosh, and that's leading to a rise in the 'old ways' among the Horde. Thrall lost the battle, but he hasn't lost the war. That sort of thing. It's an ongoing struggle, with Thrall and Garrosh representing the two halves of the Orcish Horde. Right now, Thrall's losing ground. They haven't lost yet, but it's gotten to the point where a civil war is looking like a real possibility.
havitech asked...
This one has been nagging me for a while: What the hell is the Scarlet Onslaught doing with Death Knights in their ranks?
This little stretch of story is way too cool for me to spoil just yet, so my advice is to just keep questing. All will be revealed in time. Let's just say the Crusade doesn't really learn from past mistakes.
Drakthorn asked...
So what exactly happened at the end of the Death Knight starting quests? There is something under Light's Hope, Darion sees daddy and turns on Arthas, Tirion tries to bubble but Arthas uses Death Grip, then Tirion somehow cleanses Ashbringer and punches Arthas in the face releasing only the DKs of Acherus.
The two most important things to remember are that Light's Hope Chapel is Holy ground due to whatever is beneath it (we don't know for sure yet), and that Ashbringer almost reflects the life cycle of a Naaru. It might actually be crafted from a Naaru but that's still speculation right now. The point is that it mirrors the same life cycle. It's a blade of Light, until it's been 'killed' at which point it drops to a blade of Shadow/Darkness. When it has had time to heal or is pumped full of holy power (iike you see in Old Hillsbrad), it is 'resurrected' and becomes a blade of Light again.
Light's Hope Chapel being Holy Ground weakened the Lich King himself. He was using the Death Knights of Acherus as fodder to draw out and weaken Tirion Fordring, because he couldn't take Tirion out himself on that spot. When they failed, the Lich King showed himself.
I think the scene between Darion and Daddy was a flashback the Lich King used to play games with Darion, but that's just my guess and this part felt really out of place and corny to me, so who knows? Personally I like to pretend this part doesn't happen, because man is it awkward.
The Ashbringer itself was rejecting Darion throughout the fight, so whatever is under Light's Hope Chapel started to turn the sword back to its Light side. It wouldn't obey the darkness anymore. Darion throwing it to Tirion Fordring, one of the current most devout/powerful Paladins in the world, that was the final turning point for the blade. The Ashbringer became Light again and let Tirion fight back.
The way the Death Knights of Acherus were freed is a lot like how the Forsaken were freed. A group of Scourge were given some amount of free will again during a point in which the Lich King had been weakened, and once they were aware of what was happening they weren't so easily swayed back into the ranks, especially with a strong-willed person to rely on such as Sylvanas or Darion Mograine. A lot of the Death Knights probably still hear the call of the Lich King, but know their loyalties now and can resist... if they want. They're mor or less just like the Forsaken. The big difference is the Lich King liked them better so most of them haven't had their faces rot off yet.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Ask a Lore Nerd
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Eisengel Nov 30th 2008 9:15PM
@kalbuki
I like that explanation... and it seems to fit the creation of DKs, however... it doesn't seem to allow them to actually regain free will. If Frostmorne actually houses their souls, then I don't think the Lich King could actually lose control of them. As long as he had Frostmorne, he could command them directly, or if they turned from him, he could destroy them with a thought by purging their souls from his blade.
I'd classify them as 'risen'. Basically beings that died, but had their soul prevented from leaving their body, which were bound to their body with magic. Since they only experienced physical death for a few moments, they aren't really honest-to-goodness undead... kind of... re-alive. :^) Since Frostmorne's power bound their soul to their being they would be very susceptible to its influence... but as the connection between the soul and the body grows stronger over time they'll develop more and more of their old personality and will rely on the reanimating magic less.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all... I think lore points to your explanation... but I can't see how PC DKs could exist if they were actually liches and Frostmorne was their phylactery.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Dec 1st 2008 3:07PM
If you think about it, Arthas never died and he’s a Death Knight. I think it’s not a prequisite to have died to become one. Some DK - notably the forsaken - have died. However, once upon a time when it was only paladins who fell, they never actually said they died. They simply turned away from the light. It’s like a darthvader sort of thing - turn to the dark side. It makes me wonder if in the absence of light, the reverse is this.
Wolveshead Nov 30th 2008 5:32PM
Now that the death knights are free ..how are new death knights beign risen, without the powers of the lick king?
and how many are there in game as part of the lore and not players?
Please tell me there's a future for the scarlet enclave under Morgraines rule with the phasing system. love to see them become an actuall neutral force in the lore to come.
Tenchan Dec 1st 2008 4:34AM
Only the Death Knights of Acherus are free in game lore. There are many many more Death Knights out there, especially in Northrend, and if you would like to have an RP explanation for new DKs coming onto the scene after your character already finished the Light Hope's Chapel storyline, imagine that they are of those other Death Knights and broke free on their own for whatever reason.
Riftsrunner Dec 1st 2008 1:19PM
I always felt that the Death Knight starting quest were happening in the past, so every player DK was at Light's Hope and were part of that battle. I say that because most the quest chain is disconnected from EPL for most of its run. And even when you go to Light's Hope, you cannot range very far away. I think that the Lich King's claim to have Alexandros Mograine's spirit also feeds into this, except for Darion having his sword. Maybe his appearance is one of the reasons he was replaced as a member of the Four Horseman in Naxx.
Duckaholica Nov 30th 2008 5:38PM
Actually, in reply to Shanic, you're kinda on mark but a little bit off.
The Silver Covenant are the Queldorei/High Elves that remained loyal to the Alliance, whereas the Sindorei were loyal to the Alliance until Gariwhatever basically tried to turn them into fodder and split.
The big two reasons the SC hate the BE:
1. Demonic/Fel energy. The SC does not, the BEs do. The SC thinks the BEs are corrupted, and I suppose to a certain extent...they are.
2. Sylvanas. The leader of the SC is Sylvanas younger sister. What her sister has become is a painful reminder of the past...and an abomination. When Silvermoon was surrounded by Horde, the Alliance abandoned them (mostly because the Alliance was a bit shattered and stuff, but that's irrelevant..). The BEs were going to be overwhelmed by the scourge, but Sylvanas and her soldiers came in and basically beat back the scourge. That's why they have Forsaken in Tranquillien.
It is due to Sylvanas that the BEs are part of the Horde, and ergo the BEs now fight with the enemy of the High Elves (trolls, orcs)...
Lots of hate there, but it makes me sad to see it. Poor Sylvanas :(
Colonelgoth Nov 30th 2008 6:03PM
Which makes her coin in Dalaran heart-breaking.
Also I would have had like do have seen a more-changed Undercity. I mean after the whole battle for it the only thing that changed was that V wasn't there any more. I mean Putress was barely in the game before having the smackdown laid upon him. Two big armies invade a city. Fight off demons and Undead and then everything goes back to exactly the same. I hope it's updated in a new patch ala Silvermoon.
Eldoron Nov 30th 2008 6:00PM
I wonder if garrosh will do anything in the future, or is it just me who thinks he
- spoiler alert, dont read this if you havent seen the Wrathgate video yet -
died by Arthas at wrathgate? from that point, I wonder he can do anything...
Amaxe Nov 30th 2008 6:35PM
SPOILERS in comment. Bypass if you haven't done wrathgate
I had thought both he and Fordragon were killed by the Forsaken and their attack. On the alliance side, at least, you come across the wreckage afterwards, with few survivors. Of course I only experienced the story from the Alliance side, so I don't know what the Horde had to say.
I did think Thrall showed a sort of moral cowardice, saying that he did not want this. Perhaps not, but in his tolerance of the extreme factions, he enabled it to happen. Had he stood up to them sooner, it could have been perhaps prevented.
Still from an RP perspective I imagine that this would be a real chance to develop: such as disillusionment of the character towards their leaders. I found myself neither agreeing with Jaina nor the king on this. Jaina seemed too tolerant of the Horde and their faults in this, while the king seemed too rash to be pushing for a new war while the Scourge was undefeated.
My own character remains opposed to the Horde, yet disillusioned by the leaders of the Alliance as well
This has gone on too long so I'll end here
Hideaki Nov 30th 2008 9:12PM
SPOILERS
It is Saurfang's son, Saurfang the Younger, that is killed by Arthas at the Wrathgate.
Eldoron Nov 30th 2008 6:55PM
Well as you and I know, on Alliance side you have to take Bolvar's shield to the king, I guess as Horde you take Garrosh's axe to Thrall. This should mean they're dead.
I have thoughts about your other things too but it would be too long :)
Sadrach Nov 30th 2008 7:14PM
Actually, that wasn't Garrosh dying there - it was Saurfang's son, also from Nagrand. As revealed in the quests at Agmar's Hammer, Saurfang chose him personally to lead the horde assault on the Wrathgate.
That also explains why you bring the broken battle armor back to Saurfang - it was his old stuff, and his son's remaining legacy.
Stealthfire Nov 30th 2008 7:11PM
SPOILER
That's not Garrosh at Wrathgate, that's Saurfang the Younger, Saurfang's son. Garrosh is fine. Bolvar and Saurfang Jr....not so much.
vinniedcleaner Nov 30th 2008 8:50PM
***SPOILER ALERT***
It was Saurfang the Younger that died at the Wrath Gate
Bongchoof Nov 30th 2008 6:28PM
Okay. Seems to me that the only reason any forces that stand against the Lich King have any leg to stand on is because of the recent turn of the Ashbringer. What exactly makes this sword so very powerful? Is it truly strong enough to kill the Lich King?
Unrelated, though, what exactly is the Maelstrom I keep hearing
about? Is it a place? If it is, where is it and what is living there?
Amaxe Nov 30th 2008 6:38PM
If I understand the Lore of the WoW website correctly, it is the aftermath of what appears to be a large magical explosion that blew the world apart: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter1.html#7
Of course how canon the WoW website is I don't know.
Eldoron Nov 30th 2008 6:57PM
wowwiki.com is excellent to read about things you don't know.
Andelorn Dec 2nd 2008 12:11AM
The Maelstrom was created from the destruction of the original Well of Eternity, which Azshara and her Highborne used to first fuel their magic society and then summon the Burning Legion into Azeroth. It was destroyed to stop the summoning, and the explosion tore the world apart, separated Kalimdor into Kalimdor and Azeroth (the Eastern Kingdoms) and started the giant storm where the Well sunk under the sea.
Riftsrunner Dec 1st 2008 2:41PM
The Maelstrom is the big swirling thing that is in the center of the world map. It was once the Well of Eternity before the Night Elves stopped the Highborne from summoning Sargeras to Azeroth. Through the course of that battle many things happened. The Black dragonflight turn on the other dragonflights, the Highborne were either killed or transformed into Naga, and the Well of Eternity folded in on itself and destroyed 80% of the land masses of Azeroth.
The Ashbringer has a long and complicated history. Let's just say that the Ashbringer is the nightmare of the Scourge. The Scourge is so powerful an army because it's dead can come back over and over again (as well as adding to its ranks its defeated enemies). As long as there is something to bring back. The Ashbringer destroys the undead totally, so there is nothing coming back. As to Arthas, unless his body died of starvation while sitting on the Frozen Throne for the past few years, he isn't undead. His body is the host to a malevlant demonic entity and the two have merged as one to be the new Lich King.
Jason Nov 30th 2008 7:45PM
I have a question:
What language is being sung in the background in the WoW Cinematics? I think it's latin, but I'm not sure. And do we know what it means?