Ask a Lore Nerd: The heads and tails of the Horde
Welcome to Ask a Lore Nerd, where each week blogger and columnist Alex Ziebart answers your questions about the lore and history of the World of Warcraft. Ask your questions in the comments section below, and we'll try to answer it in a future edition.This week on Ask a Lore Nerd, we're only answering a small number of questions, because they're really good ones and I want to dork out over them a little. Let's get started, shall we?
Mornash asked...
Speaking of Garrosh Hellscream, what do you think Blizzard has in store for us with his story. They're portraying him like his father was, a bloodthirsty, arrogant, loose cannon. Are they going to have him repeat past mistakes? Maybe bring about another downfall? Or will Saurfang and Thrall get through to him and have him ultimately become a hero?
I'm not so sure that Garrosh will be redeemed or convinced to chill out or any of that, but I won't say it's impossible either. First reason for that, he's one of the catalysts to the "putting the war back in Warcraft" thing that most people have wanted for so long, and the writers have decided was necessary.
Two, Thrall needs Someone to butt heads with or he becomes just a figurehead character. He exists, but you stop caring after awhile. There's obviously a ton of corruption in the Horde and plenty of people going against his vision, but you can't fight an idea or a concept the fun, literal sense. Thrall can't fight against the Orcs that want to return to the old ways in a way that players will find exciting unless there is a face to that concept. Garrosh is the embodiment of the Orcs that long for the days of the Old Horde. A struggle against Garrosh is a struggle for the direction of the New Horde. By overcoming Garrosh, Thrall would take another step toward reforming the Orcs, and we'd experience it in a way that's exciting, not just propaganda and other boring stuff that nobody would care about in an MMO.
On the other hand, Thrall's losses are a gain for the Orcs that want to be savage murderers. I think Thrall's loss in Orgrimmar kind of drives that point home. Thrall the modernist more or less lost his duel with Garrosh, and that's leading to a rise in the 'old ways' among the Horde. Thrall lost the battle, but he hasn't lost the war. That sort of thing. It's an ongoing struggle, with Thrall and Garrosh representing the two halves of the Orcish Horde. Right now, Thrall's losing ground. They haven't lost yet, but it's gotten to the point where a civil war is looking like a real possibility.
havitech asked...
This one has been nagging me for a while: What the hell is the Scarlet Onslaught doing with Death Knights in their ranks?
This little stretch of story is way too cool for me to spoil just yet, so my advice is to just keep questing. All will be revealed in time. Let's just say the Crusade doesn't really learn from past mistakes.
Drakthorn asked...
So what exactly happened at the end of the Death Knight starting quests? There is something under Light's Hope, Darion sees daddy and turns on Arthas, Tirion tries to bubble but Arthas uses Death Grip, then Tirion somehow cleanses Ashbringer and punches Arthas in the face releasing only the DKs of Acherus.
The two most important things to remember are that Light's Hope Chapel is Holy ground due to whatever is beneath it (we don't know for sure yet), and that Ashbringer almost reflects the life cycle of a Naaru. It might actually be crafted from a Naaru but that's still speculation right now. The point is that it mirrors the same life cycle. It's a blade of Light, until it's been 'killed' at which point it drops to a blade of Shadow/Darkness. When it has had time to heal or is pumped full of holy power (iike you see in Old Hillsbrad), it is 'resurrected' and becomes a blade of Light again.
Light's Hope Chapel being Holy Ground weakened the Lich King himself. He was using the Death Knights of Acherus as fodder to draw out and weaken Tirion Fordring, because he couldn't take Tirion out himself on that spot. When they failed, the Lich King showed himself.
I think the scene between Darion and Daddy was a flashback the Lich King used to play games with Darion, but that's just my guess and this part felt really out of place and corny to me, so who knows? Personally I like to pretend this part doesn't happen, because man is it awkward.
The Ashbringer itself was rejecting Darion throughout the fight, so whatever is under Light's Hope Chapel started to turn the sword back to its Light side. It wouldn't obey the darkness anymore. Darion throwing it to Tirion Fordring, one of the current most devout/powerful Paladins in the world, that was the final turning point for the blade. The Ashbringer became Light again and let Tirion fight back.
The way the Death Knights of Acherus were freed is a lot like how the Forsaken were freed. A group of Scourge were given some amount of free will again during a point in which the Lich King had been weakened, and once they were aware of what was happening they weren't so easily swayed back into the ranks, especially with a strong-willed person to rely on such as Sylvanas or Darion Mograine. A lot of the Death Knights probably still hear the call of the Lich King, but know their loyalties now and can resist... if they want. They're mor or less just like the Forsaken. The big difference is the Lich King liked them better so most of them haven't had their faces rot off yet.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Ask a Lore Nerd
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Eisengel Nov 30th 2008 9:23PM
I studied Latin, ancient & Medieval, for about 6 years in total, and so far I have yet to pick up a word. I think it's just vocalization/chanting, however I could be wrong. Usually I'm watching the cinematic. :^)
Anewkeitaro Nov 30th 2008 7:58PM
I have a quick question that I cant seem to find info:
Why did the other Pantheons not react to what Sargeras was doing? Did they not know or did they not care what he did?
Piper Dec 1st 2008 11:52PM
The Titans pretty much trusted Sargeras to go do his thing; after all, he was probably the best out of all of them, sorta like a patron saint of Paladins. He was good, noble, powerful, wise, and believed very strongly that the powers of Order would triumph over the powers of Chaos. But as he kept traveling and imprisoning the 'bad' guys he became seriously disillusioned. After all, how could such evil exist?
Mostly his slide into the Burning Legion was one of private doubt and questioning his moral compass. And, in a way, he's still bringing order to the universe, except it just involves complete annihilation of every living thing in it. I have no doubt that if the Burning Legion accomplished their mission, he would turn on the demons and utterly destroy them.
Mizunie Nov 30th 2008 8:17PM
Perhaps a bit of a spoiler...
A few questions here:
1) We keep hearing about Yogg-Saron, and his Saronite. Yet we see the Lich King harvesting Saronite to build various things (another Archerus, his own citadel, and even his own ghouls). We also see something that is...somewhat important to the King in a hole, and this thing is being guarded by faceless ones! Are the two of them in a gang or something? Can I join?!
2) During the comic, the King of Stormwind is almighty and awesome, an awe-inspiring leader who even made Horde respect him! Now, after the Wrathgate, he has become a cry-baby that no-one likes. Is there a reason for this or is Blizzard just playing rug-of-war with their lore again?
3) Sindragosa was said to be blasted up to Northrend alone. Why the heck are there TONS of other drakes with her in her little pit? Also, do you think we will get to fight said Dragon at some point in time?
Eisengel Nov 30th 2008 9:31PM
My guess on 1. is that the Lich King has become so powerful that the Old Gods are starting to pay attention. Not only can he wield powerful fel energies from his training as a warlock, but he understands the ways of nature from his days as a Shaman, and has this new power over life and death as well as terrific psionic abilities. I think maybe some of the Old Gods see the Lich King as their opportunity to take vengeance on the Titans for reordering their world, and I'm sure the Lich King would like nothing better than to slam-dunk Sargeras, claim his power, and become a god himself.
Skuling Dec 1st 2008 4:35PM
The scourge and Faceless ones/Yogg-saron is actually fighting eachother, and heres why:
1: Arthas gave Yogg'saron and his forces quite a beating in wc3
2: Arthas is mining Saronite a very strong metal made out of Yogg-saron him self, Yogg-saron is not to pleased about this.
3: Both Yogg-saron and arthas wants control over the Old Kingdom, The scourge basicly control whats left of the Nerubians and believe all of Azjol-Nerub belongs to him. Yogg-saron sees the old kingdom as a way out, or atleast closer to the surface. Its mostly just a ego fight.
4:That really deep hole under you know what, is most likley just a mistake, the scourge dug to deep and foud a portion of the old kingdom that was under the Faceless ones control(not 100% on that one) in a saronite mine in icecrown the scourge has actually chained up a faceless one, again not sure why, not 80 yet ;)
leprakahn Nov 30th 2008 8:14PM
I have a question about when the Orcs first arrived on Azeroth.
I've was wonering, how is it that the Orcs seemed to already understand the Human and Troll tungues? Did the warlock magics somehow enable them to understand the languages or did they figure out Humanese (or is it called Common like it is in the game?) and the first Trolls they met up with happened to also speak that language?
Schadenfreude Nov 30th 2008 8:37PM
Nice picture, but what is Cloud from FFVII doing wearing an argent dawn tabard?
Ohhhhhh the comics. >_
Chris Nov 30th 2008 8:53PM
Why is Gorehowl only an epic weapon shouldn't it be a legendary or even an artifact?? if it was wielded by grom hellscream it's kinda one of a kind and how did it end up in kara??
Skuling Dec 1st 2008 5:01PM
Well noone knows for sure how its ended up in kara. But Hellscreams grave is under control by demons, they most likley gave it to Prince. And yes, it shoud be legendary. But not everything can be, besides theres enough legendary melee weapons allready.
Chris Dec 1st 2008 5:24PM
Well it should be at least legendary if not artifact like a few items, Weapons and items held by heroic figues like gorehowl or the weapon boxigar wielded or even doomhammer thrall's weapon should be an artifact due to the fact it's one of a kind
Anewkeitaro Dec 2nd 2008 12:35AM
I began to believe that everything and anything that you can think of can exist in Karazhan. It is such a random place due to Madivhs constant experiments.
Even when he was alive and training Khadgar, there would be random "hallucinations" or random periods of time... future and past.
I guess I began to see Karazhan as a place where all the lore in the entirety of the Warcraft Universe can come together however they wish. Including Gorehowl.
Ian R. Nov 30th 2008 9:05PM
Why does the Lich King hate the living so much? Arthas had no reason to kill everyone, he was all ready in line to rule. What happened to Ner'zhul (er.. or whatever his name is, the other have of the Lich King) that made him want to kill everyone and turn them undead?
Eisengel Nov 30th 2008 9:56PM
All of the below is paraphrased from wowwiki's entry on Ner'zhul:
Ner'zhul's fall is pretty tragic. He was once the single closest thing the old Orc tribes had to a leader and was tricked into basically massacring the Dranei by Kil'jaden. When he tried to do something about this, Ner'Zhul's power-hungry apprentice, Gul'dan, narced him out to the Legion. Gul'dan was promoted and Ner'zhul was stripped of his power. Much later Teron came up with a plan to try to create new portals to worlds other than Azeroth for the Horde to conquer. Ner'zhul agreed to help him with this rather than have his blood-crazed people massacre themselves with no external enemy to fight. He required several artifacts of power to do this, of them being the skull of his old apprentice, Gul'dan.
Gul'dan had become pretty powerful, and as soon as Ner'zhul got his skull Gul'dan began trying to corrupt Ner'zhul. Eventually Ner'zhul fell to Gul'dan influence and became just as power-mad as Gul'dan had been, and lead his followers into Azeroth instead of another world, and abandoned the rest of the Horde to its fate on Draenor. The incredibly power of the opening of the portal tore apart Draenor, creating today's Outland. Kil'jaeden captured Ner'zhul and his followers as soon as they set foot in Azeroth, and tore Ner'zhul to pieces, but kept his soul in limbo. Ner'zhul eventually agreed to serve the Legion and was bound to the Frozen Throne. The rest... you know.
Ner'zhul is now the Lich King. He didn't necessarily want to destory all life on Azeroth, but that is what he was ordered to do by the Legion. He was at least pretending to carry out their orders... but he later defied the Legion and kept growing more powerful, more powerful than Kil'jaeden intended. His recent assimilation of Arthas has made him even more powerful, and he is pretty much beyond direct control by the Legion... save possibly Kil'jaeden, or even Sargaras himself. No one knows why he has renewed his attacks on Azeroth... but, I'm sure we'll find out eventually. :^)
jam Nov 30th 2008 9:09PM
"2) During the comic, the King of Stormwind is almighty and awesome, an awe-inspiring leader who even made Horde respect him! Now, after the Wrathgate, he has become a cry-baby that no-one likes. Is there a reason for this or is Blizzard just playing rug-of-war with their lore again?"
I disagree. I think the King's actions in WoTLK are awesome. I bet most people who don't like it are Horde fanatics, or people who haven't read the comics and don't really understand the character.
havitech Nov 30th 2008 10:18PM
You basically answered my question with, "I know the answer, but it's SO COOL that I'm not going to tell you." :(
I kid, I kid. But I would like to know where the revelation you seem to be pointing to can be found. It doesn't seem to be around Dragonblight, unless I skipped some quest text in my haste to level. I have a couple of quests left at the Onslaught Harbor in Icecrown, however.
Also, I'm Alliance, and as far as I know New Hearthglen is mostly quest fodder for the nearest Horde town, Venomspite.
Kai Monture Nov 30th 2008 11:19PM
Why are there still demonic crystals in Silvermoon? I thought since the Sunwell was cleansed, the Blood Elves no longer used Fel magic?
Amaxe Dec 1st 2008 8:49AM
Presumably for the players who are starting out, and haven't experienced the story yet... though I imagine that they will go straight to Northrend at 68 and not see it anyway
Matdredalia Dec 1st 2008 12:16AM
I don't think the flashback had anything to do with Arthas.
I think that whatever was under the chapel was showing Darion his father and reminding Darion of who and what he once was --- especially since Darion KILLED HIMSELF to free his father.
His father seems to have been the central figure in his life and it would seem to me that seeing his father and remembeirng who he was would have a huge impact on his ability to break free of Arthas.
Not to mention the fact that the line "But that day is not today" makes a huge impact in that it's basically saying "You can't beat him. Wait it out, you'll get your turn."
I think whatever is under Light's Hope has something to do specifically with THE Light and the Light is what was showing him his father.
Seron Dec 1st 2008 1:54AM
one thing i don't get, is the scarlet crusade, i can see why horde hates them because they see the forsaken as the same as the scourge. but why does the alliance fight them? though the alliance doesn't see the forsaken as part of the scourge but they don't like them because they are horde so why don't the alliance and scarlet get along?