Ask a Lore Nerd: The heads and tails of the Horde
Welcome to Ask a Lore Nerd, where each week blogger and columnist Alex Ziebart answers your questions about the lore and history of the World of Warcraft. Ask your questions in the comments section below, and we'll try to answer it in a future edition.This week on Ask a Lore Nerd, we're only answering a small number of questions, because they're really good ones and I want to dork out over them a little. Let's get started, shall we?
Mornash asked...
Speaking of Garrosh Hellscream, what do you think Blizzard has in store for us with his story. They're portraying him like his father was, a bloodthirsty, arrogant, loose cannon. Are they going to have him repeat past mistakes? Maybe bring about another downfall? Or will Saurfang and Thrall get through to him and have him ultimately become a hero?
I'm not so sure that Garrosh will be redeemed or convinced to chill out or any of that, but I won't say it's impossible either. First reason for that, he's one of the catalysts to the "putting the war back in Warcraft" thing that most people have wanted for so long, and the writers have decided was necessary.
Two, Thrall needs Someone to butt heads with or he becomes just a figurehead character. He exists, but you stop caring after awhile. There's obviously a ton of corruption in the Horde and plenty of people going against his vision, but you can't fight an idea or a concept the fun, literal sense. Thrall can't fight against the Orcs that want to return to the old ways in a way that players will find exciting unless there is a face to that concept. Garrosh is the embodiment of the Orcs that long for the days of the Old Horde. A struggle against Garrosh is a struggle for the direction of the New Horde. By overcoming Garrosh, Thrall would take another step toward reforming the Orcs, and we'd experience it in a way that's exciting, not just propaganda and other boring stuff that nobody would care about in an MMO.
On the other hand, Thrall's losses are a gain for the Orcs that want to be savage murderers. I think Thrall's loss in Orgrimmar kind of drives that point home. Thrall the modernist more or less lost his duel with Garrosh, and that's leading to a rise in the 'old ways' among the Horde. Thrall lost the battle, but he hasn't lost the war. That sort of thing. It's an ongoing struggle, with Thrall and Garrosh representing the two halves of the Orcish Horde. Right now, Thrall's losing ground. They haven't lost yet, but it's gotten to the point where a civil war is looking like a real possibility.
havitech asked...
This one has been nagging me for a while: What the hell is the Scarlet Onslaught doing with Death Knights in their ranks?
This little stretch of story is way too cool for me to spoil just yet, so my advice is to just keep questing. All will be revealed in time. Let's just say the Crusade doesn't really learn from past mistakes.
Drakthorn asked...
So what exactly happened at the end of the Death Knight starting quests? There is something under Light's Hope, Darion sees daddy and turns on Arthas, Tirion tries to bubble but Arthas uses Death Grip, then Tirion somehow cleanses Ashbringer and punches Arthas in the face releasing only the DKs of Acherus.
The two most important things to remember are that Light's Hope Chapel is Holy ground due to whatever is beneath it (we don't know for sure yet), and that Ashbringer almost reflects the life cycle of a Naaru. It might actually be crafted from a Naaru but that's still speculation right now. The point is that it mirrors the same life cycle. It's a blade of Light, until it's been 'killed' at which point it drops to a blade of Shadow/Darkness. When it has had time to heal or is pumped full of holy power (iike you see in Old Hillsbrad), it is 'resurrected' and becomes a blade of Light again.
Light's Hope Chapel being Holy Ground weakened the Lich King himself. He was using the Death Knights of Acherus as fodder to draw out and weaken Tirion Fordring, because he couldn't take Tirion out himself on that spot. When they failed, the Lich King showed himself.
I think the scene between Darion and Daddy was a flashback the Lich King used to play games with Darion, but that's just my guess and this part felt really out of place and corny to me, so who knows? Personally I like to pretend this part doesn't happen, because man is it awkward.
The Ashbringer itself was rejecting Darion throughout the fight, so whatever is under Light's Hope Chapel started to turn the sword back to its Light side. It wouldn't obey the darkness anymore. Darion throwing it to Tirion Fordring, one of the current most devout/powerful Paladins in the world, that was the final turning point for the blade. The Ashbringer became Light again and let Tirion fight back.
The way the Death Knights of Acherus were freed is a lot like how the Forsaken were freed. A group of Scourge were given some amount of free will again during a point in which the Lich King had been weakened, and once they were aware of what was happening they weren't so easily swayed back into the ranks, especially with a strong-willed person to rely on such as Sylvanas or Darion Mograine. A lot of the Death Knights probably still hear the call of the Lich King, but know their loyalties now and can resist... if they want. They're mor or less just like the Forsaken. The big difference is the Lich King liked them better so most of them haven't had their faces rot off yet.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Ask a Lore Nerd
Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 news





Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
bdew Dec 1st 2008 2:54AM
The Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught are just a bunch of racist fanatics that will fight and kill anyone that doesn't agree to their ideals, including the Alliance.
RogueJedi86 Dec 1st 2008 2:55AM
Apparently the Scarlets are so paranoid that they think everyone not in their ranks is a spy of the Scourge, or a direct member. Still, I'd love to join their ranks. I heard a few people roleplayed as them by setting Argent Dawn to At War and destroying the quest hubs in WPL and EPL, which amounted to griefing. It's too bad Blizzard removed the ability to set At War for factions in BC and WotLK.
Jessierockeron Dec 1st 2008 2:01AM
I got a question, even though Bolvar is dead, do you think he'd somehow come back or something? To me, it would suck if he didn't because now when I'm SW and I wanna PvP, I'd have to spend an extra second to walk around the throne.
Just kidding but seriously, Bolvar being gone forever kinda sucks.
Oh and also, if he did somehow miraculously come back, what kind of impact do you think it would have for the king and prince of SW?
Rosa Dec 1st 2008 3:00AM
I wonder if I'm just reading all this differently than everyone else.
The way I'm reading it, we're not SUPPOSED to be cheering for Garrosh, in the same way that we weren't supposed to be cheering for Grom until the very end. We're supposed to be hoping Garrosh grows up and frustrated by the fact that he doesn't. We're supposed to WANT to cheer for Garrosh, but just can't. He really is a send-back to his Father.
There's a pattern in the people Garrosh puts into power: Agmar, Krenna. I don't think we're supposed to like either of them, either. And that event between Saurfang and Garrosh in Warsong Hold? Who can try to tell me that we're supposed to be on Garrosh's side, there?
It seems to me like Blizzard isn't writing Garrosh as a hero we're supposed to get behind and root for more war in Warcraft. I think that he's supposed to be a sobering example of what that would entail. He's being set up for a fall of some kind. The question to me isn't whether or not Garrosh and his followers will be brought low, but rather, will he be redeemed?
Anyone can feel free to argue with me, I'm wondering how I managed to get this totally different impression.
Skuling Dec 1st 2008 4:43PM
I agree with you, and if you ask me, I think Saurfang is going to kill him, like just as hes about to do something uber stupid, or atleast I hope :p
after he'd totally go into exile or something, just to arive and save the day some other time, that'd be sweet!
BEPaladin Dec 1st 2008 4:48AM
reply Jessierockeron and SPOILERS if you haven't done the Wrathgate - Icecrown quests:
Bolvar is 'dead' dead - poisoned by the radical Forsaken and then burned by the Red Dragon flight. He can't even be raised to undead. :(
I speculate we will fight Saurfang Jr. in the future as Arthas stole his soul.
Question on the Lich King:
Anyone sees the Lich King as Blizzard's version, or some inspiration from Harry Potter's Voldemort?
Visiting the past (Icecrown quests), name anagram (Matthias Lehner), his 'new' pet (Nagini - Sindragosa), different kinds of weapon but similar 'soul' effect (the 2 wands - Forstmoure vs. Ashbringer)
Maybe we need to fight Arthas' Horcrux before we can 'down' him? ;p
MAXLEVEL255 Dec 1st 2008 5:37AM
ok heres a question about the vrykul now I know that all the creations of the titans had a purpose like protecting the land and shaping the world but is there anything that says what the vrykul were made for? Id like to think they were warriors or protectors of the titan’s works in northrend.
Eustathios Dec 1st 2008 5:46AM
Recently i've read the novel, The Last Guardian. (It's about Medivh and the orcs entry to Azeroth as you might certainly know) In that book there is a reference to an half-orc. Are there any more known half-breeds in Warcraft lore?
Clasifyd Dec 1st 2008 11:09AM
I know that Rexxar is half orc and half ogre. And, if I recall correctly, there is a half dranei half orc in Honor Hold. I don't play Alliance, so I'm afraid I can't confirm this. Also, Lantresor of the Blade, in Nagrand, is half orc half dranei.
Mephron Dec 1st 2008 11:14AM
There's Lantressor of the Blade, who claims to be half-orc and and half-draenei.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Lantresor_of_the_Blade
Eustathios Dec 1st 2008 11:13AM
Indeed, i've read that on wowwiki.
But what struck me as odd, in the novel, Garona was a young woman. That was during the first war, so the half-orc was born in Outland. Still, she is a half-human / half-orc.
There indeed is a reference to orc warlocks making their children get to age quickly using some sort of Drain Life spell tho.
Skuling Dec 1st 2008 5:10PM
Well yeah, garona being half-human is kind of a slip.
But then again, there has been one person( well two if you count souls) that'd known about Dreanor and possesed to ability to travel there( even tho there is no proff he ever did) so maybe, just maaaybe.. Garona is Medivh's daughter! Dam DAM DAAM!
Comeon, its possible! :)
Tinski Dec 1st 2008 6:38AM
I wonder, IF Alexstrasza can bring dead ppl back, then why just *snap* and malygos or Saurfang jr will be alive again, but no. Isthis becouse she CAN'T or not ALLOWED to do that? (Titans, you know)
Skuling Dec 1st 2008 4:52PM
She cant bring people to life, she's the Protector of Life, not the creator. There is a slim posibility that she might posses that ability, but then, just as Nozdormu can change time, but wont, seeing how that would most likley mean the end of Azeroth.
But as far as lore go (or as far as I know about) she cannot bring people back from the dead( wicth incedently makes her inferior to any and all pala's, priests, shammy's and lich kings out there..)
Andrew Dec 1st 2008 7:58AM
What was most interesting to me is that, if you noticed, the very first quest the alliance sends Thassarian is a suicide mission, which is precisely the sort of misssion Arthas sent him on that caused him to defect in the first place.
Seems a little insensitive!
Briggs Dec 2nd 2008 3:28AM
I think, actually, that what is beneath Light's Hope Chapel is the burial ground of the original Ashbringer himself. Further, the scene between Darion and his father is pivotal as it reminds him of who he was before he fell under the Lich King's sway. I believe this flashback was actually triggered by the spirit of his father as a way of redeeming his son back from Arthas.
It has become clear that while under the sway of Arthas, undead are simply mindless ghouls. While Arthas may have returned enough free will to his Death Knights for them to be stronger and above the common Scourge, it is doubtful that he allowed them to remember their full and accurate previous lives. This is clear in the quest of the DK starting zone where you kill an old friend.
Alanid Dec 1st 2008 12:07PM
Well, if i remember rightly underneath LHC there are lots of bodies of dead men that Arthas himself brought there sometime - i can remember Tirion insulting Arthas with this when Arthas is all like "wtf, h@xx". I wish i could see that again - oh well, will just have to wait till they implement the make a death knight on any server update.
Pseunami Dec 1st 2008 3:38PM
What happens when an Aspect dies?
According to some lore sources, the Dragon Aspects are unsure of what might happen if an Aspect parishes. Hence, the possibility that Deathwing is being held somewhere by the Reds. I have not gone into the Nexus yet and I doubt I will anytime soon so I do not know if this issue is addressed game-side or not. Is the mantle of Aspect something that can be passed on by the holder like the position as Guardian of Tirisfal was or can it only be imparted to a being by the Titans?
splinter0 Dec 1st 2008 9:37PM
I have two questions, first I dont understand why we are going into the Black Dragonflight's chamber to kill Sartharion unless i missed a quest or text somewhere, and second I couldn't find anywhere about whats going on in The Nexus, whys the blue dragonflight fighting mana surges, and what that vaccuum type effect.
MAXLEVEL255 Dec 3rd 2008 3:38AM
Alexstrasza can reserect people becuse she restored the blue dragonflight as the reward for malygose helping distroy the demon soul if i remember right.
one more question did rhonin, krasus and brox really go back in time? or did blizz just say that the whole war of the anchents books are irellivent?