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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsAsk WoW Insider: Instance running 101
by Mike Schramm 
Dec 1st 2008 at 6:00PM
Here's a question for you all from Percinho about my absolute favorite thing to do in game: five man instances. He and his guildies are about to run their very first instance (or they were when he sent this to us at ask@wow.com), and he wants to know your very best tips for instance running:For the first time we have 5 players with level 60+ characters and so have decided to run some instances. None of the guild have extensive experience of instancing as we tend to mainly be solo-ers, or group up in twos and threes just to quest. We're heading to the Ramparts in Hellfire Peninsula with a Warrior, Priest, DK, Rogue and Mage. What we're after is some tips for successful instancing that we may not have considered, those things that every veteran knows that wouldn't even occur to instance-n00bs like ourselves.
Anything that could help our first guild run avoid total disaster would be greatly appreciated!
Percinho
Well hopefully they made the run fine, but it's a good question: what do you wish you'd been told when you first started running instances? Percinho also mentions that they're aware of the aggro mechanics -- that's the thing I had the hardest time with when I started, though it seems easy now. I'd also say settle the loot rules first, since even in a guild, that's where problems come from. Finally, an awareness of what other classes can do is always good: helping a Warlock to remember his soul stone or asking a Shaman for a specific totem in a certain situation can help the whole group (if done tactfully, of course, not "omg lay poison totem down, noob"). What say you, readers?
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Odds and ends, Instances, Ask WoW Insider, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Sirithe Dec 1st 2008 10:22PM
I haven't seen it yet so here are my rules for marking, which I think is one of the harder aspects of tanking. The tank marks because they will know how they want to fight, but really anyone who is comfortable can. Here is what I do in 5 mans.
Mobs:
Most dangerous - Moon/sheep, Star/sap - Use your best cc
Second most dangerous - Skull - Kill it fast
Third most dangerous - Any unused cc.. Hunter traps, banish, kite...
Least dangerous - Cross, Circle ect.. - Clean them up
Kill order, everyone focuses on these targets in order:
Skull, Cross, Circle, worst cc, non renewable cc, best cc
CC Marking convention (just good to know in other groups)
Moon - Sheep
Star - Sap
Blue Square - Hunter trap
Diamond - Banish, Seduce
Triangle - Shackle, Mind control
What is a dangerous mob? Here is how I rate them in order.
Nasty specials - like Bonechewer Beastmaster
High damage - usually casters or ranged
Irritating mobs - usually lower damage AOE, knockbacks ect..
Low damage mobs - usually high ac melee types.
Cheers, Hope that helps
Sirithe
Plastic Rat Dec 1st 2008 11:01PM
Pulling ranged/caster mobs.
Ranged attackers or caster mobs will not come directly towards you. Often going towards them will result in you aggroing more mobs than you can handle.
There are a few ways around this:
1) Death Grip. Not sure on the range here, but I believe if you have a Death Knight they should be able to yank the mob right into the middle of the group for some spanking.
2) LOS pull. This is a bit more tricky. If a mob that uses a ranged damage ability cannot see you, it will run until it can see you. Thus you take advantage of this. Find a nice corner where line of sight is blocked to the mob. Go and aggro the mob by shooting it or whatever. DO NOT let anyone else damage it yet, it needs to focus on the guys pulling.
Then run around your corner and wait. The mob will come running to you and everyone can jump it.
3) Silence. This only works with caster mobs. If a caster mob cannot cast it will try to engage you in melee and thus come running towards you. If you don't have a mage or a hunter with silencing shot, a shaman can also do this with earth shock, however it needs the mob to start casting first.
It's kind of tricky with a shaman, but lots of fun. Get in range for your Earthshock. Open up with a lightning bolt, then Earthshock it the moment it starts casting, it should come running towards you. It might start casting again as ES only locks them out of a school of spells for a few seconds. In which case you need your Grounding totem up. Wait for your ES to cooldown and shock him again when he's casting.
Found these were all valuable skills to learn and also a lot of fun.
Willow Dec 2nd 2008 12:07AM
I think this is a very helpful comment.
Blood Furnace is an excellent chance for your mage to practice helping the tank with a well-timed Counterspell. If your warrior pulls with a ranged weapon, the casters may just stand in place casting if the tank does not stand out of LoS. The summoning mobs in BF will likely start summoning a minion that will likely aggro on the healer with no tank aggro on it. The mage must be 'johnny-on-the-spot' with a counterspell to stop the summon and cause the mob to start running toward the tank. The DK can Death Grip, but I (a mage) have always been the one to do it in the past.
Other mage notes for instances:
- Be the vending machine that Blizzard made you to be. All mana users get a stack of water. Healers get two stacks.
- Get a sheep focus macro or addon. I use a macro and it's hotkeyed to one of my mouse buttons for easy access. Watch your timers and start re-casting Polymorph when you have 5-6 sec or less on it.
- Do not pull aggro. If you do pull aggro, Ice Block is an 8-sec aggro drop, just make sure the tank is next on the aggro list.
- If you're a frost mage, Cold Snap is the emergency button. Use your cooldowns (Water Elem, Icy Veins) to bring down mobs quickly after tank builds aggro. If things go bad, you can reset CD's with a Cold Snap.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but these are just a few things I can recall at the moment. I love 5-mans, have a good time, guys!
Michael Dec 1st 2008 11:06PM
"Warrior, Priest, DK, Rogue and Mage"
"helping a Warlock to remember his soul stone or asking a Shaman for a specific totem in a certain situation can help the whole group"
Schramm, your usual ineptitude rears its ugly head. Due to useless posts like this, the one thing bringing me to wowinsider is fear that I'll miss something important, like Wow's 4th birthday.
Oh wait, I can get that elsewhere. BAI!
jbodar Dec 2nd 2008 5:11AM
Did you leave the house without your helmet?
"Well hopefully they made the run fine, but it's a good question: what do you wish you'd been told when you first started running instances?"
Don't sniff glue, kids.
Hilton Dec 1st 2008 11:26PM
Remember that your group will take a few pulls to "gel" together. Just relax and make sure that you communicate to each other as much as possible.
My list would be a follows:
1. Before you head there, make sure you have a few potions, scrolls, elixirs and buff foods. They will make your life easier.
2. Make sure everyone knows which mark is which and what the kill order is.
3. Settle the loot rules before the run and make sure everyone is clear on them. When I run with my regular group, we always say Pass if you don't Need it, the Enchanter greeds to DE, and Need if it's an Upgrade (or Offspec if noone Needs for main Spec). Those are just my groups loot rules as a suggestion.
4. Most importantly... Communicate and HAVE FUN!!!
=)
Hilton Dec 1st 2008 11:29PM
Another thing I forgot to mention...
Melee DPS should do their thing while standing BEHIND the target.
The only one in front of the Target is the tank.
KPow Dec 2nd 2008 12:19AM
I haven't read all the comments here, but from what I've read so far I see most ppl ahve covered all the important basics. 2 things I haven't seen yet:
1) If you are one of the classes "blessed" with a new knockback ability, take it off your toolbar. These are for soloing & your tank will be very frustrated if you knock everybody around after he positions them just right. Trust me, your tanks will thank you for not using it if they've *ever* encountered somebody who does.
2) With the group make-up described, you have 2 melee dps fighting with your tank. For all that is holy, stand behind the boss. If the boss has a tail, stand at his side. Do not stand in front of teh boss with the tank. A boss can parry an attack from anybody in front of him. That parry equals more attacks on your tank, which equals more heals on your tank which equals less heals on everybody else. While it may not cause a wipe, your healers will appreciate you making their jobs a bit easier.
If you would like to know the math behind this, it is said here better than I could ever write myself: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15596-melee_combat_mechanics/
Also, it helps if you've looked at the boss drops ahead of time, to know what you need as an upgrade. Saves time. & bring an enchanter, no sense vendoring BoP items nobody needs if you can get some mats for enchants instead.
ginka Dec 2nd 2008 12:31AM
This is a very timely article, because it seems that with WotLK, there are either a lot of new players, or old players in new roles, and now that the cutting-edge crowd has burned through all of the new content, what is left is, to put it bluntly, amateur hour.
I could easily be one of those amateurs. I try not to be.
But it's tough even getting a quick Nexus run due to a lack of players who work well in their roles.
Advice is a great thing, as well as sharing experiences. Hopefully you will reach some people!
If only Blizzard published its own dos and don'ts regarding instance play. Even a quest line for tanks, healers, and dpsers would be helpful.
Kil Dec 2nd 2008 12:41AM
I am unsure if anyone noted this one, but it bears mentioning.
Generally there is a group leader. They will most likely be the most experienced.
I do not know how well everyone in your group gets along, but the simple fact of instance groups is that it is not usually a democracy. The group leader calls the strats and everyone follows them. By all means, ask if something isn't clear or you'd like to know why something is being done a certain way. Simply wait for a moment to ask "Is there a reason that we are doing it this way instead of that way?" Chances are there is, and a decent group leader will be happy to explain.
Do not be a belligerent idiot. Do not say the words "I know what I'm doing, I used to run raids in EQ!" (yes, I've had someone say that to me, and yes, it was a Hunter with no other alts.).
Get aquainted with the rules of threat.
Example: Why don't we pull mobs off of the tank? Well, picture the Hunter (yes, same one) pulling a mob off the tank because they don't know how to moderate aggro and think "I can do this myself!". Then when they can't get the mob off them, they FD without a freeze trap. And where do you think that mob will go? To the tank who barely got two swings in? Or to the healer, who, by now is 20,000 points of heals into the aggro hole?
Bingo. Nice work Diamond Jim, you just wiped us. Again.
Kill order. Kill order. Kill Order. Learning to follow the kill order is a basic understanding everyone should have.
So, to people who are new to instancing, welcome. It's a very fun and rewarding part of the game. But take the time to learn your class as well as the mechanics of aggro. Also, becoming familiar with the capabilities of other classes is a tremendous help.
Good luck.
Chris Becke Dec 2nd 2008 2:37AM
I am in a small guild of 7 odd people. All friends in real life. And we mostly run instances together.
Successful instance runs have some requirements:-
1. get as geared as you can, and make sure everyones gear is fully enchanted. It makes a huuge difference having properly gemmed and enchanted gear.
2. Someone, usually the designated tank, is made leader, and *must* set raid icons. I bind them to the function keys. By convention, the skull is what everyone kills first. various other icons can mark out what needs to be killed 2nd, or crowd controlled.
3. If anyone other than the healer pulls aggro. its their fault. newbie groups CANNOT succeed in encounters if the tank is desperately trying to pull mobs off everyone. its hard enough for the tank to stop mobs breaking off and attacking the healer at the best of times.
Its hard to get past this, but tell the damage classes to NOT attack until the tank has put 2, at the very least 1 of whatever aggro generating ability the tank has on the current damage target: sunder armor for warriors, lacerate for druids etc.
4. When faced with a group of mobs. always kill the casters first. do not be afraid, or embarassed, to get the tank to tag a caster, and then run a whole room back to line-of-sight the casters to get them to follow and bunch up where they can be dealt with. line-of-sighting casters is the biggest part of successfull instance pulls.
5. When doing an instance the first time. take it slow, and kill everything.
Chardonney Dec 2nd 2008 2:55AM
Tank:
Get used to being the leader, you're the one who sets the pace...but remember not to outpace the rest of the group if you have someone lower than you.
DPS:
Don't...break...sheep! Also, learn to get a feel for agro and pull back accordingly.
Healers:
Get by using only your heals that are appropriate for the moment. Smaller heals are usually more mana efficient (FoL for pallies, for example) and may do the job just fine. Big heals, while big crit numbers are nice, usually waste mana because of overhealing...causing you to OOM quicker.
Everyone:
Don't roll on boss drops if you can't use the item and someone else can. Learn how to pass! Green zone drops are up for grabs. And above all....HAVE FUN! =)
Naix Dec 2nd 2008 11:07AM
Uhh in Wrath down ranking your heals is now more mana inefficient than using max rank heals.
L2read up.
Percinho Dec 2nd 2008 4:11AM
Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.
I think we managed to break just about every rule of instancing over the course of the evening. We had an MT who'd never tanked and a healer who'd never healed, the Mage enjoyed pulling when no-one expected it, everyone kept breaking sheep, the healer pulled agro and the DPS went after whichever target they felt like. As the MT I blame all of these things on Someone Else, possibly the Rogue.
Most importantly though we had an absolute blast and are all looking forward to the next guild run! Ramparts and Blood Furnace have been cleared and Slave Pens are on notice.
/salute
Turtlehead Dec 2nd 2008 4:33AM
If they know how threat works, they've got 80% of it down. Most of the rest is class/role specific. Basic macros help a lot. Assist ones and focus ones (particularly for cc [crowd control]).
For all classes: show up on time, not PvP flagged (PvE realm) and with mats to do your buffs.
Sorry in advance about the length. Covered everything I could think of for this grouping.
Mage: don't dare AoE (area of effect) until you are *certain* the tank has everything locked on threat. Iceblock does NOT remove threat. It makes you immune for a short time so mob moves to next target, often the healer. Then it'll come back and kill you too. Dropping frost nova means the mob will hit whatever is near it until it's free, again, often your healer. If your tank taunts the mob it can't go back to him while frozen.
Friends of mages: don't put a DoT (damage over time) effect on the sheep target. Looking at you, warlocks. If it happens, mage, spam sheep non-stop to keep the mob locked.
Melee (DK, war, rogue): attack from the rear. Always. If your swing triggers a parry--only happens from the front--the tank gets an instant burst of damage. This can cause a wipe.
Tank: learn to LoS pull around corners.
DK: If you're DPS, don't use death grip except to pull casters if war asks for it or to save a healer. If used to save a healer suck it up and lay off DPS so the tank can get it off you. Remember to take your threat aura off while in the instance. If you're tanking, please remember to put it on.
Warrior: if you're not tanking, don't take aggro. That simple. Save the healer if things go bad, but don't complain if you're not the healer's primary goal. You won't be. That extends to all the non-tanks: if you die, don't whine if the healer didn't manage to save you. The healer keeps the tank up first and the rest is...the rest.
Rogue: don't say, "It's okay, I can stealth" and wander off to explore. Causes a surprising number of wipes. Have your lockpicking trained. There are some doors to open that will make your group's life much easier. Drop your threat before you get aggro, not after.
If you get aggro, run to the tank. Tank, pay attention. You're dirt if your healer goes down. Healer, always save the tank. He dies, you're next. Mage, you're going to be last resort in that group if things go really badly. If it's at the wire drag a mob around with frostbolt and mana shield and icebarrier (if you have it) and the rest. Better you die than the healer does. Even with the current high mana cost consider having rnk1 frostbolt bound. It's a very quick cast for kiting. (Kiting means making a mob chase you around without it hitting/killing you. Mages are good at this. Practice it solo. You'll be expected to do it later.)
And, lastly, and most importantly: have fun! you're all going to have a ball :)
Solitare-sp Dec 2nd 2008 4:28AM
'Healers:
Get by using only your heals that are appropriate for the moment. Smaller heals are usually more mana efficient (FoL for pallies, for example) and may do the job just fine. Big heals, while big crit numbers are nice, usually waste mana because of overhealing...causing you to OOM quicker.'
Thats um...not really true. Larger heals and HOTs are the most mana efficent. Compare Greater Heal and Flash Heal for priests. You are right about overhealing, but with priest talents like Serendipidy (which gives you mana back everytime you overheal) then thats something to take into account.
The other important thing for casters is the 5 sec rule. Mana only regenerates after 5 seconds of casting a spell (although this is got around by some talents and mp5 gear). So casting less , but bigger heals means you get out of the 5sec rule much easier, and therefore get more mana.
Throwing around lots of short mana-inefficent heals is 'the' way to get OOM. A priest will do anything he can to delay healing as long as possible to get out of the 5sec rule.
A good healer will know exactly what his heals heal for, and be able to measure expected damage and cast-times so that when that heal lands, it does so in the most mana-efficent way. For example, if you have a 5k heal, then often the best time to start is when the tank has had 3k of damage because by the time your heal finishes he will have taken another 2k of damage.
Gerda Dec 2nd 2008 6:00PM
I wish this had been posted when I started playing. I also wish the mage I played with last night would read it so he would stop giving me grief for healing the tank before him.
DanH Dec 2nd 2008 9:44AM
This has sort of been covered and sort of hasn't: get your head around *why* the roles work the way they do.
I'm still relatively new to instancing (and to the game in general) and something it took me a while to work out was that the Tank isn't just there to protect vulnerable cloth wearers. I think it's very easy for plate/mail wearers (Ret Pallies, DKs etc) to assume that because they can "take it" they don't have to worry about pulling aggro. It wasn't until later that I realised what a headache it is for a healer to have to split their healing.
Does that make sense?
Wrayth Dec 2nd 2008 10:12AM
Warrior: Your taunt doesn't add aggro, it simply bumps you to the top of the aggro list. In other words, don't taunt the mob that's already attacking you, save it for someone else. Many bosses and some mobs are immune to taunt, so have a backup plan in hand.
Priest: Remember the golden rule already mentioned... Healer heals the tank, tank protects the healer, everyone else needs to help themselves. Even friends can get silly sometimes, and letting them die is often a good (and funny) reminder. This can relax a bit with AoE damage and the like, but it's still the core rule.
DK: The class is a newbies, so take all advice with a pinch of salt and cynicism. My personal experiments suggest that it's very very easy to pull aggro. If you're not the tank, never ever ever use Death Grip or Death and Decay (unless you're saving the healer).
Rogue: Develop a thick skin. Nobody knows how much utility you have, and people like using you as the scapegoat. Having said that, watch the DPS... it's very easy for you to get aggro, cos you do a lot of burst damage. Use anasthetic poison when you're not using cc poisons. Bash on what the tank is bashing on unless instructed otherwise. When in doubt, kill the caster first, and if it's not a boss remember your stuns and interrupts are pretty much the ultimate anti-caster toolkit.
Mage: Watch your sheeps, keep them baaing, and feel free to yell if someone breaks the sheep... just make sure you get the right person ;) Watch your burst damage, you're right up there with the rogue if you get an (un)lucky couple of crits. Ice Block, frost nova and blink are useful toys, and always remember to run towards the tank (important for priests too, if the boss is after you. Tank cant get aggro back if you're running away.)
KirkJobSluder Dec 2nd 2008 11:09AM
@Wrayth: I have slightly different rules because, as a healer, I like to get everyone through the pull standing, if possible.
Priest to DPS: You can expect a PW:S or Renew if I'm comfortable taking time away from the MT. That should be sufficient for you to dump aggro onto the MT. If you need more, I can't help you.
Druid to DPS: You can expect a light instant heal if you take light damage. If you need more, I probably can't help you.
Shaman to DPS: I'm throwing Chain Heal into my rotation for a reason. If you take damage, stand next to the tank for the next Chain Heal.
All healers to Tanks and potential off-tanks: Please keep an eye on the chat window. If I yell about aggro and you see me running through you, grab that mob off of me.