Officers' Quarters: /annoyed
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.All the great new content in Wrath has brought a number of my guild members back to the game. It's great to see their names lit up in the roster again. But I imagine that, in some guilds, players have come back that no one is particularly happy to see logging in again. This week, one reader wants to know how to handle a member that annoys just about everybody.
Hey Scott!
I'm an officer in a pretty big, casual guild (roughly 100 people). One issue that [. . .] has caused quite a lot of discussion in officer chat and forums alike is a few of our members. These members are disliked by many people in guild, due to their overall behavior, as in repeatedly asking for the same things in chat, and complaining during raids (among other small things, that over time drives people crazy).
Now, this have gone on for a fairly long time, and we have come to the place where most officers just want to get rid of them. Problem is, they have not actually broken any of the rules. They are close to at many times, but they never actually cross that line and do something that is clearly against the rules. We don't have a "no annoying people rule."
To me, being the main subject in officer chat for weeks, and having officers say "he's bound to make a mistake sooner or later" in itself should warrant a gkick, but not all officers agree. So here we are, still waiting for them to actually break a rule so that we can kick them.
What's your take on situations like this? Among officers we are just discussing around in circles, not getting anywhere, so I hope for some outside thoughts on the matter.
Thanks!
[Anonymous]
I've always believed that not everyone in a guild, particularly a large guild, has to get along swimmingly. We don't all have to be best friends. As long as you can tolerate someone, that's generally enough. But when a member is disliked by the entire guild, that's a different situation.
You say you're waiting for them to make a wrong move. But they might never break an actual rule. You can't sit idly by while they drive people out of the guild or make everyone's experience miserable. A guild is not a corporation. You can't be sued for wrongful termination.
In my opinion, "don't be an annoying jerk" could be considered the ultimate unspoken rule of every guild. After all, that's mainly what a casual guild screens for when players apply. Just because a person manages to mask their annoying behavior during that process doesn't mean you and your officers are powerless to do anything about it.
You need to speak with such a person in private. Explain why their behavior is unacceptable in a calm, reasonable manner. Don't make it sound like everyone in the guild hates them, even if it's true. No one wants to hear that and that will only put them in a defensive posture. It could also be very hurtful. Instead, tell them you've had a few complaints and that the officers are trying to keep the peace. You could also say that the officers agree with the complainers for extra emphasis (and I'm sure you do).
Make sure you are explicit about the type of behavior that you're addressing and explicit about asking them to stop doing it. If you're dealing with a situation where everything they do annoys people, you'll have a long list, and it might be best to choose a few specific things to highlight. However, always be specific. Saying "you annoy people in guild chat" isn't enough.
One of three things will happen at this point, but no matter what happens, you win.
They might actually listen to you and stop doing whatever it is that's getting under everyone's skin. That's a win for you.
They might fly off the handle at the accusation, dumbfounded that anyone could find their "playful antics" aggravating, and quit the guild on the spot. It's not the best resolution, but it's still a win for you.
The third scenario requires some followup from the officers. If they continue the behavior after you've specifically asked them to stop, you must give them a warning that another incident will result in an officer asking them to leave the guild. Then, if they still don't stop, you have every reason to kick them. And you win.
If "don't be an annoying jerk" is the ultimate unspoken rule, quickly on the heels of that one is "listen to the officers when they're making a reasonable request."
I'm sure a lot of people would say, "It's your guild and you can kick whomever you want for any reason." And that's true. However, remember that kicking someone out of the guild is the most extreme punishment you can dole out. If you do that left and right, it can create an environment of fear, where people aren't having fun because they're afraid to do or say anything.
When you give someone a second chance before kicking them, it's hard for anyone to question your decision -- particularly the person you just kicked.
You also don't want to cultivate the attitude that the reason for your decisions is "because I said so." We all hated to hear that from mom and dad, and no one wants to live under that kind of authority. Respect for your own rules is essential to fair leadership.
Ultimately, however, the rules are your rules. There is no separation of powers in the way most guilds are organized. You and your officers are Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court, all in one governing body. So if you feel a new rule is necessary for the well-being of the guild and your own enjoyment of the game, go ahead and officially add it to your existing guidelines. Then enforce it.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
BigDaddy Dec 1st 2008 12:14PM
You definitely have to be proactive with this type of situation.
Our guild lost a very valuable contributing high level member because of "stupid antics" and annoying guild chat banter like that mentioned above.
The offending member eventually quit, but not after the toll had already been paid.
Be fair yes, but don't risk your good guildies on someone who doesn't play nice in the sandbox.
Rugus Dec 1st 2008 12:14PM
Well... this is a GAME. You're supposed to have FUN while playing it. If someone is an ass*ole most of the time, just say him goodbye and move on. I don't really see any valid reason in paying a monthly fee for a GAME and find myself asking moral questions about an idiot that no one likes anymore. Come on. Just get rid of him and that's all.
William Sagemire Dec 1st 2008 1:24PM
These are my thoughts as well.
You don't get paid to raid. The game is not a job. Even if said guild member is the best in the world, it's not worth keeping them around if they're keeping other guidies from enjoying the game.
William Sagemire Dec 1st 2008 1:27PM
Supposed to say "best [insert class here] in the world" but the comments system automatically removed my < and >
hENNIFER pANTALON Dec 1st 2008 12:14PM
I kick out annoying guild members. If you piss me off (or annoy me) - you're really fucking annoying. I have a high tolerance for bad jokes and "comedic timings" but seriously, annoying member is annoying. Don't be afraid to gremove people - you may increase you guild's public appearance doing so anyways.
Kyle Dec 1st 2008 12:20PM
Simple...TALK to the members. Tell them how the guild feels, and basically warn them that they're close to the edge. If they don't like it they'll quit themselves, saving you some hassle.
Clevins Dec 1st 2008 3:32PM
Precisely. The emailer's problem is that he didn't man up and talk to them a long time ago. Instead he's emailing WoWinsider when what he should do is plain - talk to the person. If you don't want to do that, then stop being a GL or an officer because part of the description is handling stuff like this. Note.. 'handling'. Not 'avoiding'.
Sakinah Dec 1st 2008 12:23PM
We recently had this happen in my own guild. A member of our guild was being rude and obnoxious in a PUG, cussing out the tank and threatening to kick them and what not. They were also displaying this type of behavior in vent and gchat. He was warned, and banned from vent and gchat for the weekend (we have a rank for that). On Sunday, we were running a group of DK alts (myself, another GM, and the member in question) and he kicked a member of the party for no reason, and refused to give lead to either of us to re-invite the member. After being reasonably reminded that this was the behavior that had gotten him into trouble, he cussed us out and quit the group.
As officers, we discussed things later and decided that he knew what he was doing was wrong (and as a *very* casual guild, it's hard to get us to this point....I mean, you have to work at it), decided to continue the behavior inside and outside the guild anyway. We decided to kick him. Sometimes, for the good of the guild and yourselves, you've just got to do it. Our guildies completely understood when we explained in gchat. :) Pretty much everyone agreed, too.
Angus Dec 1st 2008 12:25PM
I'm a GM now.
I warned a 14 year old that if he didn't stop bugging people in Gchat or with whispers I would not only Gkick but I would prance like a pony with joy as I did it. He has shaped up.
The warning thing works.
Ed Chamberlain Dec 1st 2008 12:27PM
Just kick em, or if you need to do it by the book ...
Change the rules, so that being annoying or spamming chat or pointless chatter all the time is banned. Also say this is down to officer's discrection.
Then kick em.
JackOfAllGames Dec 1st 2008 12:30PM
I found a loophole in mine. There's no rule regarding the /ignore feature. The couple times I've had people REALLY complaining about someone that hasn't broken the rules, I've suggested it. It's not the nicest, but the /ignore feature is in there.
MisterMoose Dec 1st 2008 1:47PM
The problem with ignoring people is that they can still make the guild look bad to outsiders. If you ever invite a non-guild member to an instance or raid, you generally want your guild to look good. Hence you really have to deal with annoying members in a proactive way, otherwise they are still going to hurt the guild.
Kai Dec 1st 2008 2:18PM
I love the /ignore feature. It's fantastic in trade and general chat. However, it can make gchat pretty surreal if I have a number of the most vocal idiots in the guild on ignore.
Our guild officers feel the best way of dealing with annoying people is to give them lots of extra attention in guild chat, so those of us not having to hear the irritating ones will instead hear all the extensive half-conversations as the officers cluster round and say "Yes we will give you another Deadmines run through", "yes, you can find such-and-such at wherever" (multiple times every day, of course), "Of course I'll give you 20g", "no of course none of us think you're an annoying retard, if someone says that let us know and we'll kick them".
Plus also, you get things like the ignoree finding out they're on ignore and getting the officers to hassle you about it.
Actually re-reading this through, I think how our officers deal with it demonstrates a perfect example of how NOT to deal with annoying guildies.
jbodar Dec 2nd 2008 6:20PM
@Kai
So, what you're really saying is that all the annoying people are friends with your Officers. You must want to raid REAL BAD to put up with that kind of BS staying in that guild. ;p
Todd Dec 1st 2008 12:39PM
In most cases an unspoken rule and form of etiquette in any guild is not to make life miserable for others. Kick the bastard. No reason to sugar coat the issue. If persons are causing chaos and disruption for others in the guild, thereby affecting game play, then this is an issue warranting a kick or severe warning.
Now if we can only kick family members just as easily.
Todd Dec 1st 2008 12:42PM
On another note. If kicking isn't possible, such as the GM being MIA or submissive, tell people to /ignore the annoying members. If enough people ignore them, and these annoying pests get the pure picture that they're being ignored because of their attitude/traits, then this may persuade them to shape up.
aofsiaoen Dec 1st 2008 4:51PM
Todd, I am sorry but I think that is spineless. If you're going to get the whole guild to /ignore one person then might as well warn and/or gkick them - it's not that hard.
Todd Dec 1st 2008 5:06PM
@aofsiaoen
You're right, it isn't that hard. However, there are plenty of guilds in which the GM and/or officers still will not kick out the annoying person. This especially goes if the annoying person happens to be a person of interest, i.e. an officer or personal friend. Aside from guild members jumping ship themselves, sometimes the only option is either to endure or /ignore.
Vehar Dec 1st 2008 12:47PM
Awile back my 13 yr old bro got into a raid guild that was doing end game he was a hunter.
Now this guild grped most people on class and my bro made sure they knew his age so he wouldn't be kicked right away if they fiqure out along the way.They were ok with it.
Now he is Bt everything going ok they were on Teron got him one try and now they were going to do Bloodboil and they died a few time and evantully got him.
My bro talked to the hunter grp in P and everything was ok till he won a roll on some gear and in vent they said he wasn't going to get it.He gets kicked from guild then grp and the only reason......he was annoying.
If your gonna kick someone for being annoying you better give them a warning,cuase I got some mixed readings there.They could have been telling the truth or they just guild ninja from a 13 yr old for a older member and if it wasn't for my bro saying it was ok I was going to rain hell on them for 1.being a ass bout the kick 2.they might have ninjed for another guildie and 3.not giving a proper kick warning.Becareful and think before you act
Arkaan Dec 1st 2008 12:43PM
As a GM of a fairly large guild that is PVP focused, hence, casual natured at most we have a 17yr old + rule. That has done very well to keep out most of the immaturity and the trouble makers. But still, not all teenagers are immature and not all adults are mature.
I always warn once, and then kick them if nothing changes. In all reality, 90% of the time they just get kicked because they get pissy.
In one case I couldn't even give a warning, it was just an annoying person and I and my officers got tons of complaints about this girl who just would not shut up in gchat and would follow people into vent channels and just start blabbering. i have never received so many complaints about anyone and within a day she was kicked and everyone rejoiced.
IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOUR GUILDIES KNOW YOU HANDLE THESE THINGS
--- In other words, if you just let it fester, even though you're a casual guild, and take too long to handle things because you might be afraid of confronting a person or hurting their feelings, people will not have much confidence in you as a leader. If you handle things quickly, as in either immediately or sameday or w/e, they will see a strong hand and be glad they have a good leader.
It sucks but you have to do it. You will find 99% of the time when you kick someone people will be sending you tells and commenting in guild chat with big letter "THANK YOU!"
On a side note, I also find it prudent to mention immediately after the /gkick in chat as to WHY you did it, though most people will prob know.
When you start hearing people say that they just turn of Guild Chat when [insert name here] logs in you know you have something you have to handle ASAP.