Breakfast Topic: Should raid progression even be tracked anymore?
With the ease of Wrath of the Lich King raiding we're seeing guilds kill boss after boss at an alarming rate. And I'm not just talking about 5-man heroic bosses (those seem a bit hard, actually). I'm not even talking about 10-man bosses (easy cake). I'm talking about the big bad sorry excuse for a boss that is 25-man raiding.Some guilds can roll their face over the keyboard and kill something.
Others just have their cat play with the mouse and keyboard for a couple hours.
Still others are hiring 25 monkeys to sit in a room together clapping their hands while throwing feces at the screen. The occasional flick of their tail hits the keyboard and presses any of the numerous iWin buttons currently in game that automatically kills a level 83 mob. While the monkeys are doing this and other disgusting acts, they're also writing Shakespearian dramas, fixing the economy, bailing out the auto industry and homeowners, and ending all wars through creating world peace.
This is what 25-man raiding has become. It's so easy a caveman monkey could do it!
Do boss kills even count for anything anymore? Not really, no.
And at that should we even bother tracking them?
I'm not talking about the kind of tracking when Ensidia cleared all of Wrath raiding in under three days from release. I'm talking about the hundreds and thousands run-of-the-mill guilds currently downing boss after boss in 25-man progression raids.
Clearing content quickly after release used to mean something. It used to mean that you had a well organized and oiled machine, that everyone was on the same page to level quickly and professionally, that everyone and their cousin Roman had quality friends/players in the guild so you'd always have 25 people early on.
Now it's just a race to see how many 80s you can squeeze into a single room. Ideally you'll end up have 23 to 25 folks at level 80 ready to hand their accounts over to those Mr. Hankey flinging monkeys, which will then take over raiding.
That is hardly progression, and thus I ask you dear reader, does that progression hardly deserve to be tracked?
Edit: It should be noted that the point here is to look at what the raiding scene has become in a satirical way. Doing so shows that efforts of the past such as tracking progression are essentially no longer needed. My contention is that tracking progression is a meaningless pursuit in that if everyone has cleared Naxx, who cares or needs to display it? The point is not to insinuate or otherwise state that people are "worse than monkeys" or place one way of playing the game above another.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Humor






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 13)
Solemn Dec 4th 2008 8:06AM
I can certainly agree with the arguments presented in this post, however I'm quite certain that this post might be viewed as a massive troll.
Bbcversus Dec 4th 2008 8:19AM
This ^ and some more form my part.
Yes, it is easy to advance at this stage, but thats just because:
1 - these are the firsts instances available, made easy mode for people to be able to see the content
2 - Naxx - the main raid dungeon at this moment (loads of trash and bosses) was made easy from start for ppl to see it. No wonder its cleared so fast. And it wasnt a new dungeon either, so yes, it is easy.
3-Malygos/Obsidian - quick fights, wipes doesnt take that much time and since are only a few bosses u can learn it pretty quick.
4-Dont count the downed bosses as progress, thats so last year, now with the achievements you count those, you count the special things u have to do in an instance to "complete" it, so if you try those, things get a little harder, if not the hardes (Obsidian 10 man with 3 drakes up).
Difficulty now its in the way you kill the encounter, and not in the death of the encounter. "You killed it? So what, me too. But you killed it without killing the adds or without using the iWin trigger? No? Well, try it and then we can talk! :) "-kind of thing.
The game changed and I applaud for these changes. Everyone can see the content, only the good players can complete all the achievements. Smart done I say.
Jordrah Dec 4th 2008 8:19AM
yea this sounds like massive trolling/QQing
Kassu Dec 4th 2008 8:33AM
A troll indeed and an effective one.
All these "TOO EASY FOR TEH COOL KIDS" whiners make me sick.
It's an indication that you are really good (and most likely have no life).
You're used to hard stuff because you had to go through the ridiculously tough BC raids and mastered them.
It would be MASSIVELY unfair if Blizzard ever did that again just to please the ones that have no life and throw off everyone else.
I feed the trolls.
Mitch Dec 5th 2008 11:25AM
It HAS to be a troll post just because of this, "And I'm not just talking about 5-man heroic bosses (those seem a bit hard, actually)."
Seriously?
Alaw Dec 4th 2008 9:55AM
I agree with the parent poster.
This "article" is a thinly disguised troll post.
Most of us don't give a crap what content YOU have cleared, how fast you cleared it, or how many gallons of pee you held in during the last boss fight.
Vlatch Dec 4th 2008 11:21AM
I agree with Solemn. Please remove this post, or at least completely rework it to get opinions on whether tracking progression matters, rather than flames.
Thanks.
what?? Dec 4th 2008 11:24AM
This article is ludicrous.
This whole "oh my gawdz Wotlk too eazy" crap is getting out of hand. People act as if every guild just walks into Nax Heroic and 1 shots every boss with not one death.
GTFO with this junk.
The people with Nax 25 on easy farm mode are VERY FEW and far between. ALL this is... people wanting to be better than everyone else. They want a system that only benefits UBER guilds.
Why should a guild comprised of adults with lives not be able to do this content? Why does it have to be painstakingly hard. I just wanna log on raid for a few hours and get some epics. This doesn't have to be rocket science.
I really wish people would stop worrying about what others have and just enjoy the game. There will always be people with less and more than you. GET OVER IT! GROW UP! YOU FAIL AT LIFE!
badjoke Dec 4th 2008 3:01PM
Here's a blue response to the thought:
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/13269086867-bring-the-player-dps-raid-encounters.html
Just wait a bit and it'll get harder.
zlickrick Dec 4th 2008 11:35AM
Waaaaahhhhh!
Maybe you should start tracking the number of dates youve been on in the past 4 years now that you have all this free time on your hands, fatty.
Speedmonkay Dec 4th 2008 12:45PM
Im going to agree with everyone else and just say you need to GTFO of here with that trolling article. This is the kind of BS that belong on your own personal blog or WoW forums. Hell you can even take that crap to /trade.
Is it easier than the starting BC content ? Yes
No you read your own website you are posting on ??? I do believe that is a no.
WoWInsider has posted articles many times saying Blizzard wanted to design the new raid dungeons to where more people could see raid content. They didnt want people to hit a brick wall right away.
So anyone who was a hardcore raider in full t6 is going to fly through all this new content. And when all you are all done blowing through all the new content, most of you will probably just sit around and QQ about how easy it was and how bored you are now. I dont care WTF you all do really just as long as you leave the rest of us alone. And by rest of us I mean the people who are taking their time and enjoying the new content and appreciating its challenges.
And you know what ? All of the endgame isnt here yet. Judge the endgame when it is all here. Why dont you post something productive, Adam "the Troll" Holisky ?
Arel Dec 4th 2008 3:38PM
By far, I see this as perhaps the biggest, if not only big, mistake Blizzard made with Wrath of the Lich King.
Cool content, great flavor and style? Check.
Removing grinding, trash, time sinks and other nonsense? Check.
Giving us great skills and talents? Check.
And all of that is fantastic. Except they did one thing which more or less makes all that irrelevant. ie. Undertuned the PvE encounters. It's great to finally fill up the holes in our classes with the new skills; but now we don't even need them :/ It's cool to be getting duel-specs, finally. But who cares when hunter pets can tank, and feral druids can heal ;p Er, you get the point. There's not that much challenge left to make any of those other improvements -mean- anything.
From a dungeon perspective, the only hard one was Halls of Lightning. Everything else seems to be horribly undertuned, so that first-time raiders can do it. Um. It's great to get new raiders into the scene, but this is not the way to do it. After everyone clears these dungeons once/twice, they will get bored. Personally, I wouldn't mind if normal difficulty dungeons were somewhat easy. But there's no excuse for heroics to be anything but challenging. You don't go into a heroic becuase you're 'casual'. You go into a heroic because you're hardcore.
Pzychotix Dec 4th 2008 3:39PM
"The people with Nax 25 on easy farm mode are VERY FEW and far between. ALL this is... people wanting to be better than everyone else. They want a system that only benefits UBER guilds."
So you're saying my guild DIDN'T just walk into Naxx 25 for the first time and clear the entire place in 5 hours?
Mmk. Joke content is joke.
Honestly, you guys cannot comment about the difficulty of the content if you've never actually done it. You just make yourselves look even more foolish.
Axolotl Dec 4th 2008 8:07AM
For some players, even these bosses are achievements, even if the hardcore gamers can do them rolling their faces on the keyboard ... so yes, track 'em :-)
andyjay220 Dec 4th 2008 9:32AM
I want to see data showing that hundreds of thousands of "run-of-the-mill" guilds are blazing through this content. I lead a fairly strong raiding guild that was T5-6 in TBC and we are just starting the 10 man content (some of us were leveling slower, so maybe not the best example).
I think on our server only a few alliance guilds have cleared ANY 25 man content, and 1 has cleared all of it. Over with us on the horde, we have 2 guilds starting 10 man Naxx and I believe 1 that has ventured into some 25 man raids.
So yes, we are not a strong raiding server, but we ARE "run-of-the-mill." The ppl blazing through this content are not the average guilds, they're the "elite-of-the-elite", and now a few of the "elite" are getting there.
steve Dec 4th 2008 9:55AM
@andyjay220
Same experience on my server. One of the pre-wrath top-ten guilds has worked very hard to get a bunch of the raiding realm firsts, but my guild, which was a few bosses into Hyjal and BT before the nerf has maybe cleared two wings of 10 man Naxx so far. The heroics do seem easier than BC, as people are jumping straight into them, but there are still plenty of bad PUGs and epic wipes, too. This experience seems about par for the course for the other "run of the mill" guilds on my server.
And, didn't we have a couple hundred posts yesterday on the "tank shortage" thread about how the real shortage is healers? Certainly the case for my guild that we don't have enough healers at 80 yet to get two Naxx groups going or to start the 25 man stuff.
Cyanea Dec 4th 2008 10:51AM
I'm certainly not enjoying being told that I'm less capable of playing than a feces-throwing monkey.
Jp Dec 4th 2008 11:24AM
To be fair Cyanea, you're not being told you're _less_ capable than a feces throwing monkey, you're being told you are _as_ capable as a feces throwing monkey.
theyetti Dec 4th 2008 8:10AM
yeah...um, troll more?
Grimm Dec 4th 2008 8:09AM
I don't think raid progression/world firsts should be forgotten. Even if the raid bosses in Wrath are easier than they were in BC, it's still an accomplishment when a guild downs a boss or clears an instance.
I do, however, believe that tracking raid progression isn't what it was in Classic or even BC.