The Queue: Shields, forums, and more on raid difficulty

Welcome back to The Queue, WoW Insider's daily Q&A column where the WoW Insider team answers your questions about the World of Warcraft.
I have an extra-special request for all of you! We've had a few people asking for recommendations on other class-specific blogs, and I think that's a good thing to light the Reader Signal for. So in addition to your questions and feedback, recommend class-centric blogs in the comments below! Personally, I read A Dwarf Priest and World of Matticus when I'm looking for something Priestly. Now, to the questions...
I have an extra-special request for all of you! We've had a few people asking for recommendations on other class-specific blogs, and I think that's a good thing to light the Reader Signal for. So in addition to your questions and feedback, recommend class-centric blogs in the comments below! Personally, I read A Dwarf Priest and World of Matticus when I'm looking for something Priestly. Now, to the questions...
I have yet to get Wrath (I know, "PRAISE BE") although I am getting it this Thursday. I was wondering about the new raiding system. Which is harder, 10-man or 25-man? For example is the 10-man easier in the point that you need less players but harder as in they need to be more well geared? Or is the 25-man harder?
You can start both 10 and 25-man raiding with the same gear. They're tuned so you don't need to run one before the other at all. The 10-man is probably easier to organize than the 25-man due to having fewer people, but as far as encounter difficulty...
In my experience, the 10-mans are slightly harder with a few exceptions where a very specific encounter is more challenging in the 25-man incarnation. Overall, the 10 is more difficult, which quite honestly boggles my mind. The 25-man is simply not tuned high enough. If you were around for Molten Core, you might remember how early 40-man raiding was. Only 15-20 of your 40-man raid was at all important. The other half of the raid could die instantly or be completely AFK and you could still kill bosses. That's current 25-man raiding. Only 10-15 of you are important. It's a huge joke.
The 10-man is tuned more or less right on. It's easy, but not so easy you can let half of your raid die. In some cases, one death spells your doom. The tuning is pretty good. Simple, but everyone needs to contribute.
I don't think it necessarily needs to be so lopsided, the 25-mans are just horribly undertuned. Some Heroics honestly pose a bigger challenge. I'd even say select encounters are overtuned for a 10-man encounter when put up against the 25s.
Biggest example is Malygos' Vortex ability in the 10-man. It's tuned to 'challenge' Circle of Healing Priests and Resto Druids in a format where you're not guaranteed to have them. If you want to challenge a specific class (or spec, actually) keep it to the 25-man where you're pretty much guaranteed to have one, eh? Keep that out of the 10-man. 10-man Naxx encounters don't require Mind Control for a reason, you know?
Feli asked a pair of questions...
How do I get all, or at least more, of my guild members to use our forum? It's full of information, raid schedules, tactics... but only announcing it in the guild topic doesn't help.
It takes some training, and if you're not in a really gung ho guild it's going to be tough to get them into a routine of checking the forums. I found that if you can harbor a social environment there as well as the raiding stuff, they'll be more likely to visit regularly. Make an area of the forum where you can just gab or post cool stuff if you haven't yet. Make it a place guildies will go if they're bored, and then it'll become routine. My guild forums has strategies and raid schedules and all of that, and I bet everyone that sees that stuff opened up the forums initially to see what crazy flash game or YouTube video was posted today.
That, and you should nag them. Nag and nag and nag. Look at your member list on the forums and the guild. Did someone fail to sign up? Whisper them about it. 'Hey, did you sign up for the forum yet? There's something I'd like you to look at.' Simple!
Our guild leader decided to quit the game, and left the guild in the hand of an officer. Are there any precautions that should be taken to make the hand-over go smooth? I mean things like: Demote all people to the lowest rank again and start from scratch?
Only if there were massive problems with how the guild was running before. GM transitions can be tough on a guild, and making massive overhauls to how the guild operates will make that worse. If changes need to be made, communicate them to your members and do it slowly so everyone is comfortable with what's going on. If some folk see the guild leadership change and suddenly everyone is being demoted into obscurity, you raise the chances of hurt feelings, shattered nerves, and /gquits.
Super Brain asked...
I'm a Prot Warrior, and I've now come across several shields such as the Icechill Buckler where it says it has both 128 Block AND upon equiping it will "increase the block value of your sheild." Which of those two numbers are what's referred to as the SBV (Sheild Block Value) and whats the difference between the two stats?
We'll use The Skull of Ruin as our example when explaining this, because it has all of the appropriate stats on it while also looking super awesome. If the mouseover tooltip doesn't work, just click through the link and take a gander at its stats, then come back.
Shield Block Value is the stat listed as "Increases the block value of your shield by ##." That means part of the item's budget was spent on additional points of block, so you add that to the number below the armor, which in the case of this shield is 211. This is how much you block for, so in other words, when you block an attack that's how much damage reduction you'll get. As a Protection Warrior, that block value also adds to your Shield Slams and all of that. Another thing that adds to your block value is Strength. Unless I'm mistaken (pretty sure I'm not in this case), you gain 1 block value for every 2 points of Strength.
The other Block stat is shield block rating. That's not how much you block for, but rather how often you'll block. I believe that at level 80, 20 block rating is equivalent to a 1% chance to block.
On your Icechill Buckler, you don't have any Shield Block Rating, so no bonus to how often you block. However, you do have block value, so it will give a boost to how much damage you block. Make sense? If not, our resident Warrior addict wrote about it awhile back if you're looking for more information on it.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Wrath of the Lich King, The Queue






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Nick S Dec 4th 2008 12:42PM
For the question about the GM leaving - get a few die-hard members to show some open support for the new GM, and get the guild into the mood of "we've had a setback, but we'll survive, because this is a guild worth keeping alive." It's a dangerous transition time... getting people on the same page and feeling like members of something worthwhile is likely going to be key to keeping people around.
Jyotai Dec 4th 2008 7:07PM
Hmmm
I just left WoW and handed a guild I'd been running for 2 years over to an officer.
So it's possible I'm answering for my own guildies here... and possible another guild is going through the same crisis.
I spent a week vetting my officers to figure out who to hand it off to. All before announcing that I was leaving to the general members. The officers knew, but we kept it tight while figuring out a way to do a smooth transition.
I made it very publicly known once I had picked a person that I supported that person now having full control of the guild and not being bound by any choices that I had made under my leadership.
But I did do that knowing that the person I chose wanted the same kind of guild that I had been struggling to build for the two years prior.
If you've just inherited a guild I would suggest keeping in mind that your members joined that guild with expectations. Those expectations might not be what the past leader delivered, but they probably are close to what that leader advertised.
Make changes carefully, with a lot of deliberation. Find out what your members want and where they'd like to go from here.
Chances are the people who were promoted to various posts were put there for good reasons. Give that some weight before considering a shakeup of the ranks. What you don't want is to create a lot of guild drama by demoting people for no clear reason.
The new leader -is- now the new "owner" of the guild, but that's only in the technical sense. In truth the guild belongs to all its members - as a community. Keep that in mind. Especially during a transition in power, you need to be very open in your lines of communication and very tolerant of people expressing frustration.
Find a new, more successful path for the guild if you can - but do it carefully and with a lot of openess. And if you can, try to get your old guild leader to hang around for a little at least on the guild forums giving the new leader their blessing. People can get very attached to stability and the personality of the person in charge, and if it isn't overly clear that the hand off is on good terms, some of the members might perceive a coup where none exists, and fabricate drama in their own minds.
So far for us that hand off has gone very well. I have a lot of faith in the person I picked to lead, even though she didn't want the position, she stepped up when I asked her to consider it. And we've only lost one member during the transition, for unrelated reasons, whereas people who joined right before and right after have accepted things in stride and the old members have been very supportive of both me and my decision and the new leader.
But then they all know I'm leaving for out of game reasons, and wouldn't if didn't have to.
Nijle Dec 4th 2008 12:49PM
"Increases the black value of your shield by ##."
LMAO
andy Dec 4th 2008 1:05PM
that's funny.....why?
Naix Dec 4th 2008 1:40PM
ROFL
jbodar Dec 4th 2008 9:26PM
Does this increase the contrast ratio on my monitor?
GreekWoWguy Dec 4th 2008 12:58PM
I want to tank with my death knight. How good is tanking with DW and what are its issues with parry? Also which one of the talent trees is more suited for tanking and why?
andy Dec 4th 2008 1:06PM
Frost seems to have the most tanking benefits of the trees. Blood is great for its self-healing capabilities, but if you're tanking, it's assumed you'll have a healer (who should be better at healing you than you are). I haven't messed with unholy at all, but that seems like just another way to solo (with the help of pets and such, as opposed to self-healing). From what I've seen and heard, Frost is the best tanking tree (though you can branch out and put some points in blood or unholy if you like, too). My DK has tanked the Nexus at this point, and is mostly Blood, and it worked out pretty well. So even though Frost seems to be the best, I think all of the trees might be at least viable.
Khanmora Dec 4th 2008 1:36PM
DK talent trees were constructed in such a way that you can tank using whichever tree you enjoy most. I have healed for blood, frost and unholy tanks. They each have specialty tanking abilities in their trees.
Check out http://deathknight.info/
T Dec 4th 2008 1:44PM
This whole "frost is the best at tanking" thing needs to be left where it originated--somewhere in beta or alpha. As a solid blood DK, I tanked Nexus with no problem what so ever. I have watched an Unholy DK tank Azjol Nerub with a crappy healer healing him. Frost is an option for tanking. It is not a requirement. Get some +defense gear and any DK should be able to tank the normal 5 man instances in Northrend. Past that, frost might be better, I don't know. But people out there looking for tanks should be more accepting of DK specs other than frost.
Just beware DKs, of any spec, who show up in DPS plate thinking they can tank an instance.
Sharkhunt Dec 4th 2008 2:23PM
There's a good informational discussion of DK tanking available at elitist jerks. It answers this question in addition to other questions you don't even know you have yet about DK tanking. Check it out : http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t36998-dk_tanking_discussion/
RE: Frost == tank ... There are solid unholy tanking talents as well and plans to expand blood's ability to tank in the near future. The core mitigation talents are conveniently located in the top tier of all three trees.
Tanglebones Dec 4th 2008 2:55PM
What the other guys said about any spec tanking. The number of times people who are not up on DK mechanics tell me to L2 and spec Frost... i swear it's gonna drive me insane.
Anyway, every tree has viable tank talents. I would suggest picking up Blade Barrier, Toughness and Anticipation, then work toward specific tanking talents in your tree of choice.
I haven't played around with any spec except UH (and I've spent about 500g already on respecs trying to "get it right"), so I can only give tips on that spec, but here you go (from bottom to top):
Since D&D is your AoE threat generator, Morbitity is great so you can do it more often.
Epidemic is good for less micro management of diseases, and the CD reduction of Death Grip that Unholy Command provides is good for grabbing runners or pulling back off your healer... A lot of builds (both DPS and Tank) also go for Virulence.
Shadow of Death is a must grab talent for UH tanks due to the +stam. On A Pale Horse is not bad, but probably not going to break you if you don't have it.
Dirge is a good place to stick extra points so you can keep UHB up, and keep those Rune Strikes ticking (especially since with the next patch, the damage on Rune Strike is being decreased, but its threat is going up). I'd also suggest picking up impurity, for extra plus D&D (AoE threat).
I like Reaping as well, for an extra Death Strike (more health) every second cycle (I use the Glyph of Death Strike as well).
And if you're UH tanking, you're probably going to be expected to have Magic Suppression/Anti-Magic Zone, although these are so situational that I'm not convinced that they're worth 6 talent points for.
UH aura is nice, esp. if you run with a lot of melee. Fancy footwork can mean the diff between a win and a wipe.
Bone Shield is *the* deep UH talent to get. It's both a DPS and a tanking talent, so if you're UH, you should have it. Also get Crypt Fever/Ebon Plaguebringer for the extra disease.
Rage of Rivendare is a must for the expertise and since you're this far in you may as well pick up UHB for the AoE Runic Power dump.
Now, If you've got all these, then you've got 10 points left with 2 stuck randomly somewhere in the 1st 3 tiers (I'd suggest Outbreak, AoE again, but I'd guess vicious strikes is not a bad choice either).
For those last 10 points, i'd suggest grabbing Bladed Armor from tier 2 blood (more AP + Impurity = Bigger and Better D&D) Finish off outbreak if you grabbed it, then Wandering plague (AoE again) and then 1 point into whichever of the following has the biggest fun factor for you: Corpse Explosion, Master of Ghouls, Scourge Strike, Summon Gargoyle (I prefer Corpse Explosion (AoE), since your Ghoul is useless while tanking, and i'm using my unholy and frost runes for Death Strikes instead of Scourge Strikes, and my runic power for UHB rather than a gargoyle).
Don't forget also to get tanking glyphs (as opposed to PvP or DPS) glyphs.
I'd suggest that the only talents in UH that are completely useless to tanking are: Necrosis, Ravenous Dead, Blood Caked Blade and Desecration. The first 3 in that list are strait DPS increasers while Desecrations seems to me to be most useful for PvP (Desecration's utility is decreased in a dungeon environment due to the likelihood that you'll have to move).
Anyway, those are my suggestions. There's no dogma on DKs yet, and the class is still very much in transition, so nothing is set in stone. How exciting!
Relk Dec 4th 2008 2:59PM
To answer your first question, Dual-wield tanking has been discouraged by the developers. They have said that their intention is for DK's to tank with a dps 2her. As I leveled, I found that worked very well. I'm not saying that you won't be able to tank with a dual-wield spec, I'm just saying you will get attacked by the boss more than someone using a 2her.
As for your other question, I agree that Frost is generally equal to the other trees for tanking. I personally tank with a leveling spec of Unholy/Blood. I will probably tune my spec some when I hit 80 (tonight hopefully) and take the nice tanking talents from the lower levels of the other trees.
In short, try it if you like tanking as a dual-wielder and frost spec more power to you. It can be done, there just may be better options.
Also, as a note for later: 540 defense skill (688-689 defense rating) is uncrittable (at level 80, assuming you are tanking a raid boss). You'll want to look into that before you tank raids or heroics (you may not need to be uncrittable to start either, but being well on your way will help immensely.)
smcn Dec 4th 2008 3:15PM
I honestly think people who think Frost is the best tanking tree hasn't even looked at Unholy. Bone Shield is better than Unbreakable Armor in almost every situation, and Anti-Magic Zone is useful in 99% of fights in Naxx.
The best tanking talent in frost is Frigid Dreadplate, which is high enough in the tree that you can pick up in addition to Bone Armor. In fact Unholy/Frost hybrid is probably the best mitigation build you can get.
Overall, frost seems more like a PvP tree to me. Combined with Cinderglacier, a Killing Spree proc followed up by Deathchill can make for some insane Frost Strike burst.
breaklance Dec 4th 2008 1:14PM
To explain the sheild question somewhat further. Using the item listed it has 211 Block listed. What the author goes on to talk about is how to calculate how much total Sheild Block Value the sheild has.
With 50 str on the sheild and the conversion of 2str : 1 BV it adds another 25 BV.
With the equip bonus you add another 38
So this sheilds complete Block Value is 211+25+38 = 274
However this is further modified by talents like Sheild Mastery (+30%) and Vitality (+6% str). So the str of the sheild changes to 53 str, adding 1.5 BV. Then the now 275.5 BV gets another 82.65 from Sheild Mastery bringing the complete total of the sheild's block value to 358.15
For all intensive purposes Equip Sheild Block Value and the sheilds base Block Value are the same. As the author goes on to say Block Rating increases the chance to Block. You always want SBV because it increases mitigation(damage reduction when you block) and increases your threat(via sheild block). However its my opinion that Sheild Block Rating isn't a bad stat anymore because of how much tanks can block for opposed to BC. I wouldn't recommend actively seeking it out as actual avoidance stats are still superior imo.
Brian Arnold Dec 4th 2008 1:29PM
I believe you're going for the phrase "for all intents and purposes" - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_saying_%27all_intents_and_purposes%27_or_%27all_intense_purposes%27
I won't mock or anything though, because I find that half the time, I type out intensive purposes even though I know that's not what I mean and I have to go correct it. :)
Jack Spicer Dec 4th 2008 1:51PM
If shield block value is just simply added to the number listed below the armor on the shield, then why is it listed as a separate value and not just added into the block number?
For example, on the "Skull of Ruin" why doesn't it just say "7530 Armor, 249 Block" instead of "211 Block, 38 Block value of shield"?
What is the significance in the difference?
nachosamurai Dec 4th 2008 2:21PM
Because of the system WoW uses for the creation of items.
Items get a level assigned to them. That level has associated amounts of armor and for shields, block value. Items also have a certain number of points to work with for stats and bonuses. An epic has more points for added stats than a rare one, etc.
So the addition of the block value stat as an effect on equip means that some of the "budget" for this item was spent specifically on upping it beyond a typical item of the same "item level" should have.
Does that help clear things up?
Schadow Dec 4th 2008 2:25PM
Items have an item level, which establishes certain innate features of the item as well as its "budget".
If an item is a shield, and it is item level X, it will always have Y amount of block value by virtue of being a shield of that item level.
The item "budget" determines what other special goodies you get along with it. Uncommon items add fries. Rare you get fries and a coke. Epics you get the Supersize version of the combo. Legendary give you all that AND a hot apple pie.
In the case of the shield you are looking at, part of the item budget was spent on giving the shield additional block value. This is set out separately so that you can see how the item's budget was allocated.
Rungholm Dec 4th 2008 1:13PM
I recently started a Draenei male pala, and upon getting to lvl 40 I switched to prot and equipped the shield from sm.
To my dismay, the Draenei shields are absolutely tiny compared to the character size.
Has it always been like that, or is it a bug? It seems the nelf shields are smaller than they should be as well.