Why "easy raids" are a good thing (for now)

My guild cleared all of the 25-man raid content in Wrath within two weeks of the expansion's release. Naxxramas was easily the biggest non-surprise. Doing Naxx-25 in the company of people who know the place inside and out is a pretty straightforward and -- dare I say it -- easy process. This is even more true with players who learned the original Naxx at 70, with a much greater margin for error than they would have had at 60. Honestly? Most of the fights haven't changed to the point where you'd have to toss out your previous strategy and start all over again. A raid that saw Naxx at any point between 60 and 70 is effectively an old dog that doesn't have to learn a new trick.
Would guilds be breezing through content if Naxxramas had gone live at 80 without having appeared in the game before? I don't think so. Many of the fights are sufficiently complicated and/or difficult that guilds without any previous experience on them will be wiping to Heigan's dance, Patchwerk's damage, and Kel'thuzad's adds. It is not "gimme" content if you haven't seen it before, and I was reminded of this in a rather unsettling fashion after respeccing resto in order to heal a Naxx-10. I'd tanked a Naxx-25 with no issues, but I'd never healed a Naxx, and had to do so using mostly 70's level gear with feral glyphs still in (dual specs can't come fast enough). To say I got my ass kicked would be the understatement of the year. Trust me, Naxx is tuned just fine.

But was it a good idea to resurrect an elderly raid? I think so. It's thematically appropriate both to the tone and storyline of Wrath, and let's face it -- the most consistent complaint we saw of the level-60 Naxxramas was that almost nobody got to see it. Guilds who actually did it at 60 were universal in their praise for the design of the instance and the encounters; it was Blizzard's great experiment, and subsequent raids benefited from their experience planning and designing fights that revolved around better and more interesting mechanics in a more immersive environment. You can make a case for Black Temple and Hyjal being direct ideological descents of Naxxramas, which probably accounts for the sense of deja vu (or would that be jamais vu in the current Naxx?) you might get there if you saw Tier 6 content in BC.
Moreover, the two new raids -- Sartharion and Malygos -- have the notable distinction of being encounters with very little trash (or in Malygos' case, none at all). One of the heavier psychological tolls on progression raiders has always been having to reclear trash after wiping for ages on a boss. There is nothing more demoralizing than spending an hour clearing ugly, boring trash, only to spend 5-7 attempts getting thrashed by a progression boss, running back, rebuffing, and then hearing the groans on vent as trash begins to respawn. Say what you want about raiding nostalgia, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who genuinely misses the old 45-minute respawn timer on Serpentshrine Cavern trash. And let's not forget that said 45-minute respawn timer arrived immediately after the raiding hell that was the transition from 40-man raids to 10-man pre-nerf Karazhan, and subsequently 25-man pre-nerf Gruul and Magtheridon. If you were one of the people who did these encounters when they were first released, then it's certainly a feather in your cap to have done them when they were extremely difficult -- but let's be honest, you don't miss those days.

So out of current Wrath raid content, we have a primary raid that's been in the game for almost 2 1/2 years (Naxx went live with patch 1.11 on June 20th, 2006), and two single-boss encounters with little to no trash. I would have been amazed if raid progression hadn't been as fast as it was, and I'm pretty sure that that was Blizzard's expectation as well. They've said they want things to be more about fun and accessibility, and less about pointless slogs. Nobody wants the game to feel like another job.
If we accept that early raiding content was essentially meant to be this fast for hardcore raiders, that Naxx was "recycled" for a good reason, and that it's beneficial if early raids aren't as hellish as BC's initial content, the question really isn't whether the early raid content's too easy. I think the real question is whether more raid content should have gone live with Wrath's release in order to keep the hardcore guilds occupied until the next content patch, and whether Blizzard intends to keep the more advanced raid content (e.g. Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel) "easy."
The answer to the first one, at least from my perspective, is a solid /shrug. There's a ton of stuff to do in Wrath that has nothing to do with raiding, and if you can't keep yourself thoroughly occupied until the next content patch, then you're probably not looking very hard. Otherwise, you're not really playing the game for the sake of playing World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King; what you're really playing is the larger meta-game of beating players worldwide to the completion of new content.

The answer to the second remains to be seen, but I don't think Uldar and Icecrown are going to be easy at all. By the time they go live, Blizzard will have every right to expect hardcore raiders to be thoroughly geared, and no one will have the benefit of previous experience or months of fiddling on the beta to inform raid strategies. And, well, the pessimist in me also expects to see lots and lots of trash.
People worry about the ease of raiding because a huge part of what makes raiding fun is feeling like you earned what you got. If it's too easy, then the cool gear on your toon doesn't actually mean much because you didn't expend much effort to get it. Too hard, and the ratio of work to reward starts to feel somewhat ridiculous for what is, after all, a game. It's not the easiest balance in the world, but also not one that I think Blizzard (or players) should worry about in the first tier of raid content in Wrath. If Ensidia one-shots the 25-man Arthas on the test realms, that would be a serious problem -- but for the moment, I'm not going to lose sleep over the accessibility of content that most players have traditionally never had a chance to see.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Features, Raiding, The Burning Crusade, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Ronwe Dec 9th 2008 3:56AM
Same thing here. For me, being a BC child (or event a WotLK child, as i did join 6 month before the end of the BC era) it feel a bit awkward to skip several dungeons and raids that are good to tell the story of Wow just because everyone is playing only in the new area.
So I'll likely see Naxx-10 before i've seen Zul'Gurub ... and then, breeze through it because someone don't have an alt and went in with her/his 80 ...
Scaling old content ... please ?
(and several ladders of scaling too ... for example to be able to have an Heroic-80 version of the BC dungeons could be interesting too ... in 1-2 years, when people will have forgotten them ^^)
Please ?
Blakkeyez Dec 9th 2008 3:42AM
These easy-raids are plain boring. They suck big-time. You may complain about hard trash being tough on your nerves or bosses taking a couple of weeks to learn but it made the accomplishment greater. Not the loot or the title or the hurrays in Orgrimmar but your personal achievement was far more giving than this crap. I may be a bit more hardcore than 90% of you (or rather a somewaht lower number as there probably are more raiding players gathered here at wowinsider) but I just can't see why you would want to do these instances at all as they are now. Hardcore players are accused all the time for only wanting exclusiveness but that's just plain wrong. We are in it for the challenge. The only one caring for showing off gear is the casual player that now can pretend to be doing end-game content for a week or two dressing up in fancy suits, hanging around Dalaran. To the raiding population gear is nothing more than a tool to get to new more interesting challenges. Take away the challenge and you end up with boring work. Even fighting through trash can be challenging an fun in the beginning but pressing a button and whoops there goes Maexxna, c'mon it has got nothing to do with fun.
And sure you could up the stakes by decimating the number of players in a raid or going for achievements. But if that is what need to be done then the raids really are out of tune. Why even have a limit on the number of players then? Why not let everyone bring as many as they like and the casuals can pug the tough ones witha a gazillion of players so they don't even have to think about tactics. "Don't stand in the fire" Oh wait, that doesn't matter cause you take no damage. Keep pressing that one button and you'll be fine. Fun, really fun.
Sinthar Dec 9th 2008 9:18AM
Hi,
Your comments seem to be contradicting themselves. At the start you seem to say that the only reason you do raids is for the accomplisment of killing a boss, not gear, then later you state that doing the blizz accomplishments isnt what you want. Why exactly?
I dont get that you WANT the accomplishment of killing stuff, but to get a 'recognised' achievement, one that even gives u a 'shiney' to show off, and will make it a hard fight - yet you brush it off as not what you want. So what exactly do you want? Something to challenge the very top HC raiders in the TRAINING raid for Wrath? Do you not see the problems that would cause? New players now have to START learning in Nax, so lets not just make it a complete roadblock eh?
Whilst i personally an not HC (causual guild - raided upto MH (pre nurf) and BT (post)), i DO sympathise with them to the point that they have had no major gear reset - so have flown through the content so far, and the training raid (naxx) will provide them with no significant challenge, BUT they are the ones CHOOSING to do it this way, and im dammed if im gonna jump on the 'well blizz should have made it harder' bandwagon. I still have many many quests to complete, lore to find, and tonnes of achievements to complete. Theres new alts to lvl and gear, rep to grind, mats to farm, pvp to do, and i can do this all whilst chatting to my guild mates. If nothing in those floats your boat, then MAKE UP A CHALLENGE that YOU will find rewarding - it doesnt matter if noone else wants to do it, its YOUR game and only YOU can make it fun.
Defoe Dec 9th 2008 4:09AM
I read this site every day, and that was the best article I have read in a long time.
Big ups, Allison Robert.
Magnus Dec 9th 2008 4:13AM
My dream is, that Blizzard releases every further raid easy and accessible, so that about 95%+ of the player base can go and access it, not missing the great lore content and getting some decent gear.
All the hardcore raiders QQ for about a month and then leave the game for a Final Fantasy - like grind, leaving the game a better place for everybody else. The end.
Verit Dec 9th 2008 5:32AM
There are harder games out there - just look up Antharas videos on youtube (I haven't played l2 in ages, but back in the day he was the ultimate raid boss). He's a lineage 2 boss that takes 4-5 guilds of 40-50 people each to down for 6 items and its an extremely long fight (almost an hour).
Anyhow I'm actually not finding raiding or dungeons all that simple in wrath, maybe its the server I'm on (Staghelm) but I've spent several hundred gold on repairs farming heroics and talking to the people I've done these groups with I'm not alone. I haven't stepped into naxx yet, but I suspect its harder.
Draelan Dec 9th 2008 5:57AM
Great article, I totally agree. I'm part of a casual raiding guild. I joined after they got Karazhan pretty much down, so I didn't really experience the horrible learning curve people speak of (It helped I actually took the time to get epics from my profession and from PuGging heroics before I joined.) But I was there when we started Gruul's and Mag's. I will admit, the challenge of getting everything just right and clearing those raids was frustrating. But those first times we killed those bosses was exhilirating after so much work. We raided ZA some, and ventured into TK and SSC a little, but didn't get far in the latter two due to guild issues, I'm afraid. And I'm afraid that's where I've got to agree with Blizzard... I STILL haven't seen the inside of BT or SWP. Heck, I still haven't seen much of TK, SSC, or Hyjal either. And it just seems.... wrong that it was THAT inaccessible. I'm not saying it should be so easy any group of ebay noobs can do it. Certainly not. But raids should not have been as extreme as in BC. I like going into raids and seeing new things. Especially with a bit of knowledge on the lore behind it all. It's lots of fun. And I'm glad I'll have the chance to potentially see more than just the first tier of raid dungeons this time.
As for the hardcore players... I know there are different types of hardcore players, just as there are different types of casuals. Some are the stereotyped "I like raids insanely hard because it proves I'm better than you and I can rub it in your face." Others just like the challenge. Some are people with no lives, others live their lives and still manage to work in raiding time. Etc. Some of these types I can understand and agree with. Others should have their internet taken away for everyone's sake. But what I don't get is why some of these people that seem to have reasonable complaints about not being challenged enough are so vehemently opposed to the idea of achievements offering harder goals. I've seen complaints that it's "gimmicky", but would you be saying the same if 25-man Sarth automatically made you fight with all 3 drakes up? No, that would just be seen as one of the differences between 10 and 25 man, similar to how some bosses get new abilities in Heroics. I just don't see what all the fuss is about with intentionally challenging yourselves as opposed to having a challenge forced upon you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying raids should stay this easy. I would complain as well if any group of 10 or 25 strangers with questionable gear could PuG Icecrown Citadel. Certainly by then it should be required that raid members have seen and geared up from previous raids to stand a reasonable chance.
And I'm not saying the ONLY challenges should be achievements, either. Giving yourself limitations is simply not a new thing. What about players soloing Onyxia, just for the challenge? Or a hunter pet tanking Gruul, or Illidan being tanked by a voidwalker? Or the time limit in Strath or ZA? None of those things were objectives people HAD to do. But they did them for the bonuses and the challenge. Just to say they could. And as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with that.
And I wish some people would just keep in mind that what we have right now are STARTER raids. Game Design isn't an exact science, and it takes time and experimentation to get things to a reasonable level. Classic WoW raids required too many people, so Blizzard dropped the requirement. BC raids were notoriously tough starting out and ending, so few people got to see even a fraction of the hard work Blizzard put into endgame. WoTLK raids as they are now are far more accessible to the more casual players, but don't challenge the hardcore enough. Will this change with the future raids? Maybe, maybe not.
The one thing I can state for certain is that, no matter what Blizzard does, there will always be at least some people who are dissatisfied.
Thyago Dec 9th 2008 6:11AM
I gotta say... reading a fight and learning strategies before going into the place take its toll on the fun of the raid... I wish this "easiness" would move the game towards the end of double-raiding sindrome: first you "run" the whole raid on the web, and then you do the real thing.
Allow me not to think about the downside of this, please :D
Claha Dec 9th 2008 7:07AM
just my 2c here..
Blizzard is a company, and what companies do is cater to the widest amount of people possible. Lets be honest, there arent that many people in Naxx, let alone at 80 yet (last i heard there was around 10% of the WoW population at 80) and that means that blizzard is trying to make the raids easy for people who are leveling up so they have something to look foward to.
:)
Garrik Dec 9th 2008 8:08AM
Well supposedly there are going to be more raids in Wotlk, so that would lead me to presume that they are going to ramp up the difficulty at a later point or more evenly in general. I don't think this is such a bad thing having been a hardcore raider at one point.
I don't know what people expected with Naxx. Its older content and it should be cleared quickly. I haven't ran the eye and I don't can't speak of it or its difficulty
I think Blizzard really designed Sarth around the Drakes...and I don't think that was a bad idea. Everyone can get loot from sarth, but downing 3 drakes at the same time is just crazy talk.
I think the content is solid for guild building, but I'd definitely like to see harder content in the future that takes more time to learn.
Dean Dec 9th 2008 8:21AM
Nice piece. Lays things out really clearly. One thing I'd love to ask the 'hardcore' raiders that want things to be more difficult is this: how?
Because difficulty means a lot of things in this game. Do you want the encounters to require more tight positioning? Or more random elements? That is, increasing the difficulty by making the mechanics harder?
(this has issues as you can't make the actual 'playing' of it harder than Sunwell yet or there's no-where for newcomers to start)
Or should things just hit harder, requiring guilds to basically have everyone in full heroic gear to stand a chance. Or have tighter enrage times, etc. That's the sort of difficulty which you can overcome to some extent with better rotations but it mostly comes down to gear.
Or finally, do you just want artificial blocks to slow you down? Resistance fights needing crafted gear that can only be made with materials from earlier sections of the instance perhaps. And the patterns are a 10% drop from the first boss.
Because Kara had mostly the second difficulty on launch, SSC and TK were more the third, with a bit of the first.
Thom Dec 9th 2008 8:26AM
For all this talk about raiding I actually wish I could raid again even in 10 man. IT does seem EVERYONE is doing Heroics and Raids except me.
.Used to really enjoy it when I raided the old Naxxramas back in original WoW, SWP in BC. Problem was it took its toll on my health because the amount of time spent in those dungeons and farming gear needed for them was horrific.
Right now with working long hours and going out, plus eating every night with family and friends I aint got the time to raid. Most raids start 7pm UK time (8pm server time in EU) for me which is slap bang in the middle, and most wont want one of their tanks going off for 30 minutes whilst they eat.
I would LOVE to find a guild that raided 10 mans and did regular heroics ( I have had my full of PuGs now), with little to no required attendance meaning I could raid once or twice a week, and eventually see Icecrown and fight Arthas. A guild which would suite my times, but I cant on my current server.
Of course being on an RP server I can RP, and I can always wait for the more bit part play friendly PvP rewards where I can buy stuff playing 30 minutes here and there, but truth be told I want to raid, but time is against me.
Really saddens me people going on about how easy raiding is and acting as if everybody is doing it. Not me! :P
Dylan Dec 9th 2008 8:59AM
Its strange for me to hear all the complaining that gets done about Kara. A nightmare at release? I thought they tuned it perfectly. The implementation of it as a 10 man raid and the effect that had on 40 man raid guilds was one issue, but I found that it was just the right difficulty to feel a sense of accomplishment for downing bosses, and actually required gearing up in 5 mans before stepping in - and I'm not exactly talking from the standpoint of a hardcore raider. Also, it played itself out to last all the way until the end of BC.
Naxx, however, is cleared by every single person that reaches level 80, no gearing up required, step in and clear the whole place in greens, at least thats how my modest casual guild did it (and we certainly never did naxx pre BC). Can you really imagine everyone still running 10 man naxx a year from now when they've been clearing it every week since release?
Blizz has said for itself in blue posts that the real focus for "hardcore" raiders now is going to be the accomplishments. But who cares about those? Even when the points can be redeemed for something I can't picture myself working on 8 manning naxx with no deaths for a vanity pet, since I guess I fit into the hardcore category all of a sudden.
Darsh Dec 9th 2008 9:16AM
Haven't you been reading? Achievements are for the hardcore now! You're supposed to want to get that 10 point spacebuck achievement for downing a boss with no armor on. If not, don't complain. =/
Octale Dec 9th 2008 9:16AM
Allison,
While I agree in principle with what's being said, I think the design princliples for the early Wrath raid instances (accessability), as well as the article here proceed from a false assumption: "If everyone can do everything, they will".
Players in World of Warcraft have had the opportunity to gather themselves into sub-communities of like-minded and like-scheduled individuals since the advent of paid character transfers. One would have thought that transfers would have allowed groups of players to gravitate to one another to form guilds and such with the goal of grogressing content at whatever speed the created guild could handle. It is possible, given enough elbow grease. We turned "Octale and Hordak's Big Idea" into a fully functional raid force in 4 weeks just before 3.0.2 was released, so it can be done, with very successful results. All it takes is a small set of people with the courage and work ethic to lead such an effort.
With the sweeping nerfs in 3.0.2, WoW players were left with little reason to not raid. T4 and T5 content became well within reach of players who were willing to take direction and min/max a little bit (some fights were still unforgiving of stupidity); however, in general, most of the bosses through SSC and TK became epic pinatas.
What's interesting, at least to me, was the statistics at Wowjutsu didn't change all that much. When I heard about the 3.0.2 changes, I was expecting a jump of 1 million in the population of the "raiderbase". I figured with the ability to gather and very little obsticles in terms of encounter difficulty, people would flock to the raid instances. As I recall, pre 3.0.2, the number of players was around 4.3 million, and post 3.0.2, the number did jump, but only to 4.5 million. What is also interesting is that the longer 10 man raid, Karazahn, had nearly 30% more players in it than the much shorter introductory 25-mans.
"What's the point," you may ask. It is simply this: Blizzard's design team, whether through internal pressures from the marketing department, or of their own free will, designed raid content for a group of people who choose not to participate in it. The same demographic (I shan't name it) that had every excuse in the TBC 3.0.2 era to participate in raid content is not going to participate in raid content in Wrath, no matter how easy it is. What difference does it make that Malygos and Sartharion have little to no trash? Gruul and Mags had little to no trash in it, and that didn't change the demographics of who was going at all.
My suspicions are right in line with Allison's, in as much as the successive raids will be harder. I'll even go a step further and say, armed with the statistics in hand of who is going where, the design team gets an opportunity to really show how talented and creative they can be to give the playerbase something really special in Ulduar Icecrown.
Drow Dec 9th 2008 9:28AM
It's good to see this point of view from someone who is raiding the same content at me, is where most of us are at, and not telling us about entry level 70 dailies that are brain numbingly easy.
I think the reason there are so few places, is the new way they designed it. We in theory have 6 raids right now. 3 full of T7 (10-mans), like the Kara, Gruul, Mag, and 3 full of T7.5, or some might say T8 (25-mans), like Kael and Vashj. That's what it seems like the perseption is to me, so instead of 6 completely different instances to grind, they gave us 3 with different "modes".
Storm Dec 9th 2008 10:00AM
You know what they need to add if there's a lack of hard content. A "hardcore" mode, like heroic, that would satisfy all the hardcore people out there. Permanent death to your character. Can't get any harder than that! Having to reroll every death would definitely appease the "hardcore".
Mew Dec 9th 2008 10:19AM
For future reference, "nonplussed" means surprised. Given that your article goes on to discuss having been unsurprised by Naxx and the like, I imagine this is not what you intended. Most people use it as though it meant unimpressed, or upset (me included, from time to time...). Anyway, it's a silly word that no one understands.
Dean Dec 9th 2008 10:42AM
I'd stick with it - I'm in a guild that did that in TBC and will be doing so again in LK (though we might not get as far as Arthas: significantly slowed progression is the price you pay for flexibility).
But we're not starting raiding properly until the new year, as most players with limited play time aren't at 80 yet.
Moonburn Dec 9th 2008 10:47AM
One thing I can't quite figure out is the level of bile that is thrown at raiders these days. "No life" "epeen", simply a level of hatred, and yes I mean that word literally, that I can't see being justified. It's as if a large part of the population of WoW, or at least of WoW Insider, would very much like to see raid instances eliminated from the game and everyone who's done them gone.
I acknowledge that some raiders are jerks. We have them on our own server and I'm sure every server has them. However if all that qualifies you for being a raiding jerk is lurking in IF (or Shat or Dalaran) in T6 on warbears, then I'm not sure that the number of raiding jerks is any higher than, say, arena jerks. And yet I don't see the same level of antagonism thrown at people who spend as much time PvPing as some people do raiding. Becoming a gladiator required every bit as much research, play time, gold, etc. as raiding, and yet I don't see the same level of bile thrown at hardcore arena players.
I don't get it, and perhaps I never will, but it seems to me that if WoW does lose those people who seriously PvE, the culture of the game will suffer.