Patch 5.2 interview with Dave Kosak
Inside an old alt's vault
The latest patch 5.2 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBigRedKitty: It's hunter-pinata time!
by Daniel Howell 
Dec 10th 2008 at 9:00AM
"Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Hunter Nerf-Bat Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure lesser-class-ideology. Where each squishie may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of DPS-Thought is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on Azeroth. We are one class, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion."
"We shall prevail!"
"We shall prevail!"
We are so totally not slapping on a pair of red short-shorts and tossing a sledgehammer through your screen; everyone knows hunters can't equip maces. /pfft
And now, let's talk about what could be coming to hunters on the next public test realm as if we're not hopped up on Captain Crunch and a triple raspberry latte.
The hunter-forums are ablaze with irate masses, shrieking their throats raw over the proposed class-changes scheduled for the next Public Test Realm deployment. In our very humble opinion, they have every right to be, and it's all Ghostcrawler's fault. But not for the reason you think.
BRK's Exhibit A: "TO THE GROUND, BABY"
This statement was made by the defendant, coming off the phenomenal experiment that was Overpowered Retribution Paladin on the WotLK beta. Ret pallys were destroying anything and everything in their path. It was a beta; nobody should've cared that adjustments were to be made to DPS and healing. And they wouldn't have, if GC hadn't poked the gorilla.
It's called Diplomacy, and right now, the game masters who post on the forums at Blizzard need a crash-course in it. One would think that from the debacle that was the Rep Pally Smackdown, the developers would've learned their lesson. Nope.
BRK's Exhibit B: "I'm a game designer. I'm not a PR guy, which I think is pretty evident from my posts. :) "
That's one great big tall frosty glass of "DUH", right there. You've got a community of eleven million players, don't you think that you need to have someone with training propped up there to interact with them? WoW is bigger than Portugal (pop. 10.6 million) for cryin' out loud! Do you think the government of Greece (population 11.2 million) goes around and delivers bad news by way of a blog post?
"Hello Mr. and Mrs. Occupant of Greece. The government is raising your taxes by 170%. Sorry you're upset, but we're not government officials; we're game designers! Hasta!"
Don't think so, that's not how the pros do it. The time has come for Blizz to knuckle down and realize that the language they use to communicate to each other with internal projects is not the same in which they should educate their customers as to future plans. And if you know you're not trained to do the task, either get some education or hire someone who has the skills already.
Notice that we're not upset with the message yet, arguing that hunters aren't over-powered? We'll get there, hold on. But first, if we're going to point out a problem, it is proper etiquette to attempt to solve it, too.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Big Red Kitty
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Michael Dec 10th 2008 10:32AM
First, can you say volley?
The one move repeated over and over would generally put us on top of the dps charts. Ive been waiting for it.
stevens.ce Dec 10th 2008 10:49AM
Got to agree with the others on this - I have an equally-geared, equally talented shadow priest and hunter, and there is no way my spriest would out-dps my hunter, were they in the same raid. Hunter uptime alone should keep this from happening, not to mention the ridiculous dps love currently enjoyed by volley.
I usually love BRK's thoughts on any hunter subject, but this is a bit much - three pages of QQ over something that should be happening anyway - class balance matters, and if it shows who's playing their class and who's mashing buttons, more power to the changes.
Quasigriz Dec 10th 2008 9:42AM
It’s about time. It'd be nice if there were some sort of reduction in pet health or armor for PVP as dealing with both it and a dual-wield hunter (who just sits afar) is a pain. But, I’m a Pally, so I just say nerf everyone else too.
Menglor Dec 10th 2008 9:43AM
OMG!
QQ The dev's dont POST!!
QQ the Dev's are posting but we dont like how they say it!
QQ the Dev's are posting but we dont like what they say!
STFU!
menglor Dec 10th 2008 9:45AM
Rogues out DPS me QQ
you stand in the middle of the room, and bring down rain of fire while not having to dance around anything.
Gruul ? Prince from Karazhan?
Where do you want the I WIN! button installed?
ColbyCheese Dec 10th 2008 9:48AM
I find it really interesting that, we finally get someone who "knows what they're talking about" to interact with us on an almost daily basis, and now you want to complain about it?
I know I'm in the minority here and this will be "voted down" ASAP, but I've had quite enough of people in "authority" who feel it's OK to LIE to me and jerk my chain all day. I think being told honestly about what's going on and why it's being done is a WONDERFUL thing.
If hunters are putting out 5% more damage than they should overall or whatever, I want to know. If we're going to have to wait on dual specs so that they can add support for glyphs, I want to know. Did you really prefer "Nice stuff coming soon!" and "Working as intended!" as the ONLY answers we got for EVERYTHING? The candid explanations and details we get from GC are wonderful. And he seems to be generally more pleasant and less of a jerk than most of the people leaving comments on this website. How can you not like that?
More so than ever before, I really feel like Blizzard has SHOWN us recently that they REALLY are trying to make everything as fair as possible. A big part of that is the open, honest discussion we had coming from GC. If you don't like where the game is going, that's fine, but don't shoot the messenger. Especially when he's the best messenger we've had in four years.
Giggitygoo Dec 10th 2008 10:07AM
/agree.
Hunters in my guild arre destroying everyone on the meters. They are certainly good players, but so are all the other classes.
I'm hit capped with 30% crit, 100+ haste (yes, hit capping nerfed my haste), 1600 sp power, with more than half of my gear badge/heroic/naxx epics, and a hunter in nearly all blues is beating me by 200 dps?
This nerf is deserved, and won't make or break my guild's dps. It's fair, and is in line with Blizzard's goal of similar dps for all classes with similar gear.
Big red kitty? Should we change your name to big red pussy? Grow a pair, and out dps other classes in spite of the nerf. That's the ultimate revenge.
Beastramo Dec 10th 2008 10:35AM
/agreed ColbyCheese
People have been asking for ages for more direct contact with the game devs. They tell us what's going on, what their plans may or may not be, and most importantly, the reasoning behind their decisions. With the beta forums we were finally able to have much more direct contact with devs, to have our complaints heard. What you're proposing is to shove that 10 foot pole back in between us and them, and have us instead converse with some person who doesn't know what they're talking about. That's just silly.
What could have been done differently in the way GC presented these nerfs is spreading it out over time by talking to us more often over the course of the preceding weeks so that we don't have to deal with 10 nerfs all at once (essentially being overwhelmed).
You're pushing this diplomacy issue to make up for the fact that you're hurt over the nerfs (or not fixing the damn class for that matter). Do we really need an empty face between us and the devs? No, not at all. We simply need more consistent openness (not necessarily telling us more, just giving it to us over a span of time).
Boogs Dec 10th 2008 9:56AM
Voted up. I don't believe that someone is QQing about not having MORE layers between us and the dev team. Who cares if they speak bluntly. Frankly, we can use more of that from the people who make decisions who affect our RL every day.
Boogs Dec 10th 2008 9:57AM
Darn, that was supposed to be a reply to ColbyCheese.
sharkeater75 Dec 10th 2008 10:06AM
bro I like you, I enjoy your posts, and vids.
I love dps, as i'm a healer... but ....
I look at hunters in groups pulling 2400dps andlocks struggling to pull off 1500 with the same gear....
ok let us not scream for nerfs (but you are about to get assraped)
shit is WAY outta balance atm. quick farm what you can while you can is my advice.
sharkeater75 Dec 10th 2008 10:13AM
I guess calling people "lesser classes" sorta bit you in the ass.
Icthallus Dec 10th 2008 10:37AM
Well ye know Greece IS rioting at the moment.
Connection to the Hunter nerfs?
Coincidence? I think not!
The Greeks obviously got the news before any of the rest of us.
Dobmeister Dec 10th 2008 10:50AM
I was going to raise the point about Greece myself actually. Indifference towards the populace from the government and police is what's being cited over there.
As a rational hunter, I would say certain elements of our current status suggest the class is over-performing slightly in PvE content. I agree that Volley needs some retuning.
Aden Nak Dec 10th 2008 10:33AM
Normally I like the BRK, but in this one case I can't disagree more. What the game really bloody DOESN'T need is a staff of PR people taking what the devs might have been actually thinking and turning it into grey, lumpy inaccuracy and fibbery.
I'd rather have Ghostcrawler talk to the player base like an actual human being than have to read through six paragraphs of spin to guess at that same information. Or to be give then No Comment chorus line until a day before the PTR gets updated.
Anyone who cares enough about this game to read the forums, to read WoW Insider or MMO Champion or whatever other sources they prefer - either already possesses the maturity to understand the situation or else grow up a little bit.
This is coming from someone who probably plays his main for almost as many hours per week as I spend at work. If something like "To The Ground Baby!" got you that upset, you need to step away from this game for a while because you have over-invested yourself in it.
Salty Dec 10th 2008 10:58AM
We could eat the nerf and still top meters. I think the 12-15% reduction mentioned above is pretty accurate and fair. It’s basically effortless to get on top of other classes right now, and they are theorycrafting their asses off to come close -- ret pallies and warlocks are building rotation spreadsheets and dot cycle uptime charts. If you haven’t seen the OP, and you’re a Hunter, you’re missing something.
I’m not one to cry about class changes -- bring the challenge. I worked hard pre-Wrath to bring heavy duty damage to my guild’s raids, and now all I have to do is show up. I liked needing to re-work talent specs, itemization balance and shot rotations; the little bit of min/maxing which proved you held a mastery of your class. Around the time BT came out, a guy game up with a macro which you bound to your mousewheel and chuckled your way to win for the duration of TBC. But that button has been broken, and if you spammed it today, all it would do is waste your cooldowns and spam steady shot.
I do feel bad for most PvP Hunters who already have it pretty awful (I’d rather repeatedly jam scissors into my groin than PvP). That doesn’t mean there aren’t Hunters happily wrecking in PvP – it just requires a lot of skill and certainly capable/compatible team mates. My hope is that a later patch brings back much needed effectiveness and utility for Hunters in Arenas and I’m hoping it comes in the form of a revived Survival tree.
Maximum DPS comes from knowing the encounters and choosing good windows, watching your procs, using your cooldowns at the best possible times, keeping serpent sting up and, of course, gearing and itemizing appropriately. It’s also important to know when to drop the omgmeters game and use the rest of your arsenal when it matters, as there’s quite a lot we bring to a raid beyond dinosaurs and projectiles.
Moreale Dec 10th 2008 11:45AM
After reviewing the logs from our Naxx run lastnight, it is extremely obvious there needs to be some adjustment. As someone stated earlier it took more work to put out the top DPS before WOTLK. It seems the biggest issue is Volley. If that were adjusted, you would see the 10%-15% reduction in overall DPS right there.
My only real concern is that the Devs will make extreme changes to make the class mediocre. It seemed to me that we used to excel as single target DPS. With the huge increase in volley it was nice to be an effective AOE dps class. Now as we struggle to regain crit while increasing hit, it seems a massive reduction in DPS will make it difficult to be as effective as we should be.
I find it comical though, how many other classes are complaining -- our hunters are putting out WAY too much DPS. I can't understand how someone in a raid would actively want the overall raid to put out less damage.... I guess the fact that our guild really only uses meters to ensure all members of a class are putting out similar results, leaves me with little concern about my particular class' standing in the charts. You want less overall raid damage? fine, talk about cutting your nose to spite your face....
Nymiria Dec 10th 2008 11:52AM
Clearly BRK took the time to do research before making this post entry, so do you think you could show him some courtesy and plan out your responses, rather than the standard 'OMG QQMOAR'?
It's bad enough the hunter forums are submerged in an ocean of tears/and or gloating from other classes.
Xigageshi Dec 10th 2008 12:07PM
really guys, with how most countries are run, you'd rather blizzard handle it that way?
I for one am really glad that ghostcrawler posts on the forums, he's funny, doesn't take the flak personally, and is actually one of the people involved in the changes. I hope he continues to post on there, do you remember what the PR people are like?
"well, we think there is....(500 words of nothing speak later) hunter changes that you may not like... (300 comfort words) coming soon."
I play a mage mostly, and maybe its because i've never been the class that is in need of nerfing, (or my high int :P) but I tend to understand the changes they make, after all, the game isn't just for hunters, its for everyone. all classes need to be created equal, tis only fair.
Leowan Dec 10th 2008 12:44PM
As usual you're keeping it real for the most part, with the exception of the diplomacy part. I don't need a diplomatic post from GC, I like the fact that he doesn't sugarcoat things. Maybe GC should have sent us each a jar of vaseline and a bouquet of flowers too? Look, he posted what the problem was "Hunters of all specs, and particularly Beastmaster, are doing too much damage in PvE" and what they were doing to adress it. Is GC right about the problem? Yep. Cool, now let's go test the proposed changes and /gasp provide helpfull feedback /cheer! Don't ding GC for being up front and & truthful with us as a community.
TC hit the nail on the head - any hunter that knows how to play, knows we are overpowered in PvE. Our pets are doing too much dps, if I was another DPS class getting beat on some fights by a hunters pet I would be livid. Our AE is doing too much damage, we were never meant to be an AE class. It's nice to have AE that is worth using, but in an AE fight we should not be out DPS'ing properly speced mages, warlocks, or warriors for that matter. Someone on page 1 of the comments said he was getting out dps'd by similiar geared rogues & Spriests? Oh man, have you spent any tallent points?You are doing somethin wrong dude.
As a hunter community let's put our big boy pants on, do some testing on live, reproduce that testing on the PTR, and crunch the numbers. It's boy hard! I'm looking forward to testing the pets (realy hope my spirit beast is on par with devilsaur, and above cats, scorpids, and other non-exotic pets.
The "irate masses" need to get a grip. Before bitching and moaning about the proposed nerf, go test it on PTR. Before you QQ, post a "I'm quitting WoW thread, and set yourself on fire in protest, go test it! Jesh.
I can't comment on the PvP aspect as I got frustrated with hunters in PvP long before GC hit the scene. When Big Red Kitty says were fixed in PvP I will give PvP a serious try again, until then I could care less.