Patch 5.2 interview with Dave Kosak
Inside an old alt's vault
The latest patch 5.2 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBigRedKitty: It's hunter-pinata time!
by Daniel Howell 
Dec 10th 2008 at 9:00AM
"Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Hunter Nerf-Bat Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure lesser-class-ideology. Where each squishie may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of DPS-Thought is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on Azeroth. We are one class, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion."
"We shall prevail!"
"We shall prevail!"
We are so totally not slapping on a pair of red short-shorts and tossing a sledgehammer through your screen; everyone knows hunters can't equip maces. /pfft
And now, let's talk about what could be coming to hunters on the next public test realm as if we're not hopped up on Captain Crunch and a triple raspberry latte.
The hunter-forums are ablaze with irate masses, shrieking their throats raw over the proposed class-changes scheduled for the next Public Test Realm deployment. In our very humble opinion, they have every right to be, and it's all Ghostcrawler's fault. But not for the reason you think.
BRK's Exhibit A: "TO THE GROUND, BABY"
This statement was made by the defendant, coming off the phenomenal experiment that was Overpowered Retribution Paladin on the WotLK beta. Ret pallys were destroying anything and everything in their path. It was a beta; nobody should've cared that adjustments were to be made to DPS and healing. And they wouldn't have, if GC hadn't poked the gorilla.
It's called Diplomacy, and right now, the game masters who post on the forums at Blizzard need a crash-course in it. One would think that from the debacle that was the Rep Pally Smackdown, the developers would've learned their lesson. Nope.
BRK's Exhibit B: "I'm a game designer. I'm not a PR guy, which I think is pretty evident from my posts. :) "
That's one great big tall frosty glass of "DUH", right there. You've got a community of eleven million players, don't you think that you need to have someone with training propped up there to interact with them? WoW is bigger than Portugal (pop. 10.6 million) for cryin' out loud! Do you think the government of Greece (population 11.2 million) goes around and delivers bad news by way of a blog post?
"Hello Mr. and Mrs. Occupant of Greece. The government is raising your taxes by 170%. Sorry you're upset, but we're not government officials; we're game designers! Hasta!"
Don't think so, that's not how the pros do it. The time has come for Blizz to knuckle down and realize that the language they use to communicate to each other with internal projects is not the same in which they should educate their customers as to future plans. And if you know you're not trained to do the task, either get some education or hire someone who has the skills already.
Notice that we're not upset with the message yet, arguing that hunters aren't over-powered? We'll get there, hold on. But first, if we're going to point out a problem, it is proper etiquette to attempt to solve it, too.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Big Red Kitty
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Kie Dec 10th 2008 12:43PM
This is a QQ?
l2read plz
There are hunters QQing over on the forums who don't understand the difference between "50% damage nerf to Steady Shot" and "50% damage nerf to AP bonus to Steady Shot".
To the idiot who said "BRK wouldn't have said anything (about diplomacy) if it didn't affect hunters"... no-*&#$-ing shit? I don't play a paladin... so they were OP? so they were nerfed? I'm sure they care, I'm also sure they're more aware of blue posts related to paladins than I am.
MinatorBearCat Dec 10th 2008 12:44PM
People are stupid. They all want to be the "best" and on top of all the lists, as opposed to playing the game for what it is - to enjoy the content, enjoy the clas mechanics, etc. I didn't roll a Druid or a DK because they were the "best". I rolled them because I like the thought of being able to do a little of everything. Raid stats have ruined the game. If you made it out of the raid alive and everything is dead, then who cares what the list says.
GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!! IT'S JUST A GAME!!!!
gungadine Dec 10th 2008 12:49PM
Since when do responses get deleted from this thread, I just put a long post on here about the lack of attention to the arena hunter mechanics and now its gone?
DeathPaladin Dec 10th 2008 6:50PM
From what I've been able to see, your post didn't get deleted. This is a multi-page article, and as a result has a comment thread for each page. This is article page 1, and I think I saw your post on article page 3.
Gungadine Dec 10th 2008 12:59PM
do posts get deleted here?
Sericles Dec 10th 2008 7:16PM
Its funny that they are nerfing hunters to the ground because we do to much dps. Too much being around 4k or higher dps. Last night in Nax a couple of our mages where doing 4.7 dps on certain boss fights like patchwerk. The mage beat everyones damage by 2%. Are thry are nerfing hunters pfft. Give me a break. Somethings did need to be changed like readiness effecting beastial wrath just because it would be op in PvP but some of the other changes are over the top
scoot Dec 10th 2008 1:37PM
While I understand getting nerfed sucks (I play a Shaman) I still think them even giving us a heads up is more than they need to (or even should) do. We're lucky to have access to the PTR. We're lucky to have blue posts as often as we do. We're especially lucky that we actually get to talk to the game/class designers directly.
What is being asked here is that we get the middle man. Once we do/if we did, all we'd be asking for is a direct line of communication to the game/class designers.
This is a game. They balance the game as best they can. There's actually no need for them to even mention that they're changing a class. Nor is there a reason they should tolerate any of the irate posts on the forums.
Yes, we're their customers. They should be nice to us. However, there are those two things you agree to when you install the game and with every new patch that pretty much say, "We're Blizzard. We made this game. It changes the way we see fit. If you don't like it, don't play. PS - Don't cheat, hack, or exploit the game mechanics. If you do, we wont LET you play."
This isn't a hunter post. This is bitching. This is, "I can't find anything useful to say on the subject so I'm going to attack the ones making the change instead."
Bitching about the wording they use when telling us about changes they don't even have to tell us about doesn't help or change anything. If you want to be useful, give non-QQ-filled feedback that's on topic.
MinatorBearCat Dec 10th 2008 2:11PM
/agree
You're better off posting new strategies than complaining. Give us some useful information.
Perderedeus Dec 10th 2008 9:24PM
In my opinion, Blizzard is missing out on a few key problems...
BM is a dead boring spec to play. Steady isn't just our bread and butter, it's the whole meal. Pet DPS is dessert. Nerfing Steady while saying "we want you to use other shots!" and giving BM no incentive to use other shots is bogus. MM has Chimera, they'll be using their stings. Surv has Lock and Load, they'll be using Stings and getting free Arcanes. BM has nothing for traps, stings, arcane, multi, or basically anything aside from our pet. And Serpent Swiftness, which improves the casting time of.. yep.. STEADY.
Bestial Wrath and Readiness should have been unlinked from the get go. It's a gimmick. Using it in PVP does not solve our PVP problems, and using it in PVE only skews the damage meters and gets people ruffled. Stacking Call of the Wild in raids ALSO gets negative attention from Big Blue, and sure enough they got nerfed.
Also, as BRK says... you lower Pet DPS, you should buff Pet Survivability. This is more fallout on the PVP side than anything PVE, but it's fallout all the same.
Aramaethien Dec 10th 2008 2:05PM
I think part of the problem was that there were a lot of hunter pulling off 5k-6k dps when no other class was putting out that kind of damage on any regular basis.
Ian Dec 10th 2008 2:17PM
We should be so lucky as to have our governments talk to us with the clarity and transparency that Ghostcrawler does.
Mark Dec 10th 2008 2:12PM
I get a kick out of the "hunter's are doing too much damage in PVE" thing, seems to me everyone is doing too much damage in PVE since PVE has been dumbed down.
Blizz, did you do this to attract more people or just to piss off long time players. Heck, why didn't you just automatically move everyone from 70 to 80 when LK was released, would have saved us the hassle of leveling.
MinatorBearCat Dec 10th 2008 2:17PM
I'm just trying to figure out why that matters at all. If everything is dead, who cares Hunter DPS vs. Mage DPS vs. Rouge DPS.
That's what I don't understand. If you're taking down bosses, then more power to you.
Perhaps this goes back to "take the player not the class" discussion - which I also don't understand. If a guild doesn't want you because you have a lower DPS than another class, then find another guild -everyone is recruiting.
If you base your self-worth (and anyone elses for that matter) on the DPS charts instead of whether or not you killed everything in a Raid or Dungeon, then I don't think you are focusing on what matters - aka Did we all make it? Sweet! Is everything dead? Sweet!!
Rolf Dec 12th 2008 4:34AM
That picture from 1984 and the Quote below it... made me LOL!
jeanericuser001 Dec 10th 2008 4:41PM
If this gets any more pathetic Im gonna be sick. All this is happening because people from another class are mad that they are not doing the most damage? Oy vey. How annoying can you get. It strikes me that just about everyone here is acting like children. So another class does a little more damage. Does that make that class extra special? Is a hunter and his pet gonna replace a warrior as tank in a raid? Not bloody likely. Is a hunter gonna gain the ability to heal as well as a druid can or be able to tank and heal as well as a pally? If that was the case than hunters would be a lot more valueable but nope. Hunters are just people with a range weapon and a pet. Sure they do more damage at times but that doesnt make them better or more useful than any other class. Each class contributes in their own way with its own strengths and weaknesses. If one class is not as good as another some times its not even about stats at all. Some times its just about being able to actually use your class to its full advantages. Hunters have those advantages right now cause unlike before there is more opportunities to customize the pets. If that was removed Im sure many hunters would cry enough to drown the world in tears but what would that solve. Would it make wow any better? All it would do is just make another person who uses another class feel a little superior for a few seconds until another class showed higher dps. The point is that these nerfs and wining about them solves nothing and Im talking to users of all classes. If you wanna be an vulture that picks on other people than by all means be an asshole but remember this age old phrase, what goes around comes around. When its your turn to get nerfed lets see if you will be professional about it or just be a crybaby until you get your way. As for those crying about it, fear not cause that same phrase also implies returns of glory down the road. Sure hunters have lost some dps but at least there is still many things to come. There is still a lot of grey areas that bliz has yet to resolve so what is to say that by the next patch hunters could be almost twice as powerful. All that can be done now is to just roll with the punches and see what you can do to compensate for what is being changed. If you can do that than it doesnt matter what class you play. You will always play well if you learn to play to the best of your ability. That is what seperates a true skilled hunter from a huntard.
Scott Dec 10th 2008 5:57PM
"So another class does a little more damage. Does that make that class extra special?"
No. It makes them unbalanced.
If hunters do "a little more damage" than other pure dps classes all the time there's no reason to take the other classes. Well, maybe to buff and boot before you go in the door.
Aden Nak Dec 11th 2008 11:39AM
I'm guessing you ran Karazhan a lot during BC - that's the only way you could have collected that many straw men.
No, a Hunter is not going to replace a tank or a healer. Good job figuring that out. Of course, no one is arguing that point. However, if a Hunter can do 15% more damage than any other DPS class, guess who they are going to replace. Try really hard.
And if one class is better than all others, and it isn't their stats but rather their abilities, then there is something out of balance regarding their abilities. Hunters got a whole host of buffs with WLK - and I think it's great that they (finally) got a proper system for their pets. No one is asking for that to be taken away. There's another straw man.
I'd go on, but I've reached my daily limit for cliches per run-on paragraph.
Disgruntard Dec 10th 2008 7:08PM
The hunter class has been dead last in PVP for over 4 seasons, and Blizzard has done nothing to address this imbalance but give us the impossible to use freeze trap on a stick, guaranteed to fail 90 percent of the time or better disengage, and a series of severe nerfs to our abilities, linking of our aimed shot and auto shot, increased the casting time for Steady shot to 2 seconds and gave rogues the ability to disarm our traps at 20 yards as well as completely remove our weapons for 12 seconds rendering us useless.
But we are barely a month into WotLK and they are already announcing dramatic nerfs to the already broken hunter class when the overwhelming majority of players haven't even reached 80 yet? When the hunter class is still plagued by severe bugs that cause tremendous problems and can lead to wipes like the auto targeting/auto shot bug which if history is any guide, will take Blizzard years to correct if they ever correct it? When all the other classes which received dramatic improvements in their abilities have not learned the best way to maximize those new tools nor have they maximized their gear? If you don't see the stunning, blaring anti-hunter bias evident in this conduct than you need to open your eyes and be a little more objective. If nerfs are needed to balance DPS, then buffs to hunter cc abilities and survivability are needed to balance those areas as well. Especially in PVP. Fair is fair, but in either case it is far too early to tell.
As for people's comments towards BRK, WoW forums like this one are infested with nasty, obnoxious fanboys, trolls, sadists, sociopaths and other assorted losers who get a cheap thrill telling people who are legitimately expressing complaints or comments about the hunter class to "stop QQing" "L2P," "quit whining" and other moronic comments identical to the 100,000 or more like minded schmucks who have posted the same braindead bilge 1,000,000 times before them. That behavior is amply demonstrated right here in the majority of responses to BRK's article.
I don't agree with BRK here at all and I believe these nerfs will make it difficult if not impossible for hunters to get invited to PUGs, essentially destroying our class. There aren't enough raiding guilds out there for every hunter to get a sympathy/loyalty/friendship slot on a raid because they sure as hell will not be taking us along for our utility after these nerfs. But BRK is a class act who chooses his words carefully and tempers his criticism with humor. He is being far more diplomatic with Ghostcrawler than he or any other member of the design team deserves at this point. We pay to play this game. We have invested hundreds of hours of our time in it just to see our investment wiped out with one gratuitous swipe accompanied by sneers from GC. We have a right to be pissed.
The fact is there is no way that Blizzard could have announced these changes that wouldn't have generated an enormous amount of anger, but GC consistently adds fuel to the fire with his abrasive, arrogant, prissy and condescending style as well as his tendency to launch into personal attacks and bans against individuals players expressing grievances. This is particularly evident in the hunter forums. He likes to complain about the "tone" of many posters' remarks, but his own delivery is scarcely distinguishable in tone from the 'L2P, QQ MOAR!" morons that infest the forums. In fact, in announcing the upcoming changes he preemptively launched an attack against people expressing their outrage over these severe changes by labeling it "melodrama" and "QQing." He is also remarkably clueless about how hunters actually function in PVP despite being involved in the design process.
This has nothing to do with needing a professional PR person to blow smoke up our asses and everything to do with tact, common sense and common decency, all of which GC is severely lacking in. The fact that Blizzard would employ a guy as vulgar, insensitive and clueless as GC in a PR role reflects negatively on Blizzard and demonstrates they are very confident they can piss off their user base and still maintain sales.
This is why I think the only appropriate and effective response hunters can make to these changes is to stage an organized boycott of Warcraft and other Blizzard products until Blizzard realizes that screwing us like this has a price tag attached. Everything else is just spitting in the wind.
Odolb Dec 10th 2008 7:24PM
Ok man i think ur right...only thing i was say though a boycott is not a good idea. If anyone here played SWG online (if you don't know what it is search it up) people on servers boycotted the game because they made retarted changes and then told everyone to leave the game. Pretty much everyone did. The game died out. Not saying the same thing will happen but i'm trying to say is to get a boycott were blizz will even think of taking notice is to get on national t.v. when over 90% of every WoW person out their. or just get 90% of everyone that plays period.
so to me....boycotting is not a good idea at all. just to many cons then positive.
asakawa Dec 12th 2008 6:41AM
this is a really bad blog post.
who cares if you don't feel you were massaged enough before getting the bad news. discuss the changes and what you think of them, that's what people come here for.
i'm really surprised at the tone here