The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Transitioning your role
Well, I've been thinking about doing this for almost half a year, ever since Titan's Grip was announced, and now I have. I'm a raiding fury warrior again. My job is to hit things until they are dead, or in some cases to hit them until they are dead and have the common decency to stop moving around like that.It was a decision made harder by the glory of prot spec in its current form, but as Adam's post this week pointed out, fury is getting some nice changes that will make it even more viable, and when you come down to it, I have wanted to dual wield 2h weapons for years now. When an old friend of mine 'put the band back together', so to speak, and told me that the guild I'd raided all the 40 man original raid content with was back and that they were looking for a fury warrior for Wrath, it took a lot of time for me to decide what to do. Changing guilds was hard, as the guild I'd raided with in TBC was an excellent one and i know they'll have lots of success in Wrath, but in the end I felt like this was a move that would help keep the game fun and interesting for me.
Last night was my first 25 man as fury. We raided Sarth and Naxx. My DPS was tolerable, but not where I'd want it to be and the fault mostly lies with my gearing, as I'd been focusing most of my attention on tank gear and have lackluster DPS gear for the moment. My hit rating is adequate, but my crit and AP both need to come up. I knew that going in, though. I also need to relearn my rotations so that I'm makingt the best use of Bloodsurge (especially when the changes come in) but that will come in time. The primary task before me now, and one that faces any warrior, raider or not, who decides to change from DPS to tanking or tanking to DPS is to unlearn my habitual playstyle and learn a new one, and in some cases to make sure you don't assume that you can just jump in and do what worked for you before. Both DPS and tanking have been changed pretty significantly for warriors, and trying to revive my old style of DPSing would be absolutely futile.
The first task is, of course, to relearn gearing. (Well, okay, the first task is to determine if your current guild is willing to let you switch or if you have a place to go that is, but we'll just assume that is the case.) While I plan to still collect a set of tanking gear in case things change down the road (since every single time I've 'gone DPS' I've ended up tanking again) my priorities for badge gear and what I roll on is now DPS gear. I also have to relearn what's good: Armor penetration has been heavily nerfed which was a change from the last time I was paying attention to DPS gear while picking up offset gear while raiding in SSC and TK, something I stopped doing once we moved into Hyjal, BT and Sunwell because I was never DPSing, only tanking. At present my goals are to maintain 360 hit rating while increasing my AP and crit rating, looking to badge loot like the Mirror of Truth and the Bladed Steelboots for the most immediate bang for my emblems now that I have a solid set of 2h weapons to build around. I might go for the Death-Inured Sabatons instead, the problem being that I was grinding Kirin Tor rep for the tanking gloves which I now no longer require, but that's what dalies and tabards are for. If I were arms instead (which I've considered) my priorities would change... the same stats, but I'd weight hit less as the amount of hit I have right now would absolutely remove misses entirely. In either case, while I'm focusing on crit and AP right now, I also need to start finding expertise to try and get to 148 expertise rating as soon as I can arrange it.
If I were going from DPS to tanking, my problem would be the same but the specifics would differ. Are you gearing for threat or for survival? Do you want to gear for survival through high stamina or high avoidance/mitigation? Most tanks I know assemble at least two sets (closer to four in some cases) to balance all of these factors, and if you're moving to tanking from a DPS role where you probably have one set of gear for that role which contains your highest stats, moving to the role of tanking where your 'best' set might not be the set you want to wear for a specific fight can be a bit of a paradigm shock. I've seen tanks new to tanking become overwhelmed by the options on gear and wonder why you'd want certain stats. It takes a while to learn about things like parry gibbing for example, which I don't think is as much of an issue in Wrath as it was. Nothing you're tanking can crush you and you should be uncrittable, meaning that a hasted counterattack simply isn't going to hit all that hard... if a boss' normal swing is for 6k on plate, being parried will still be pretty bad, but when your tank has 32k or more health it's simply not as critical as it was back when you could cause a crushing blow for 10k and you only had 20.
Outside of the gearing issue, the major issue is simple and yet takes some of us (including me) a while to get used to. We both have to unlearn our current skill set and prevent our current habits from creeping in. I'm not saying forget how to DPS if you become a tank, but when you're tanking you shouldn't be constantly trying to get behind the mob, you shouldn't be in berserker stance, and more importantly you should be making sure you know what your cooldowns are and what they do for your current role. Don't miss a Shield Block because you've not yet familiarized yourself with how it works now. LIkewise, as DPS you need to get used to moving around a lot more even on fights like Patchwerk (we were using the strat where the melee DPS runs in and out of the goo next to him in order to ensure that the soak tank takes the hatefuls.) I'm not used to being behind a mob, so I had to stop myself several times from crossing in front of them or even worse, standing in front to attack. I also had to learn that abilities like Death Wish and Recklessness are to be used whenever possible, especially on bosses, as more damage is exactly what I'm there to do. Meanwhile, seeing my name at the top of Omen? It's bad now! I actually wiped us on a drake because I instinctively tried to go balls out on threat. DPS meters, yes, I want to be high on those. Threat meters? Bad warrior! Wicked, naughty warrior!
So we have gearing to relearn (and to be honest, all warriors should try and be familiar with tanking and DPS gearing in case you need to fill one of the roles you don't normally) and change our playstyle. With Dual Specs constantly looming on the horizon, it can only benefit any warrior to start looking at being up to date on more than one role in order to maximize the benefit we get from it. Also, and this is something that older players like myself really need to watch out for, don't just assume you can jump back into a role because you used to play it extensively. All three warrior specs have an extra 10 talent points in Wrath from the BC days, and if you were a tank back in vanilla WoW but have been DPS ever since, you cannot just slap on tanking gear and go. You need to familiarize yourself with your new abilities... prot in particular plays nothing like it did in the old days... and don't just assume because you tanked C'thun that you can just tank anything that's coming your way now. (Also, tanking a tentacle doesn't really count as 'tanking' C'thun, nor does wailing away from inside his stomach, and you were probably 31/5/15 or 31/0/20 back then, admit it. There was no Devastate, no Shockwave, things were very different.)
When all of it falls into place, though, changing your role can really help you enjoy your class more. While I still love tanking and expect to go back to it eventually, I'm absolutely thrilled to death to be throwing myself into packs of mobs and throwing cleave and whirlwind around, and can't wait to see how fury looks when the changes go live. It's a good time to be a warrior.
Next week, gearing for raids, I promise.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Odds and ends, Expansions, Raiding, Talents, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jacob Parsons Dec 12th 2008 7:31PM
Might want to capitalize that "i" in the second paragraph. Maybe you guys could hire me to point out these mistakes before they go public?
Alex Dec 12th 2008 7:59PM
Bad troll is... bad.
Or do we have a true usage nazi on our hands here?
The world will never know.
Jacob Parsons Dec 12th 2008 8:07PM
I just can't stand simple mistakes like that. I try to keep my mouth shut on things like breaking parallel structure or even the occasional disagreeing subject and verb in very complex sentences.
Pucelle Dec 12th 2008 8:46PM
Yes, the best way to apply for a job is to, unsolicited, make insulting corrections to your potential coworkers' work.
McGayver Dec 12th 2008 8:57PM
Let Jacob Parsons do his job. This is a world filled with leet nerd talk, internet forums that make your eyes bleed and the occasional English teacher that starts crying.
Jacob Parsons Dec 13th 2008 11:52AM
At least I have the courage to put my own name on the internet. I don't see anyone else doing that, let alone daring to correct popular bloggers. Latin "decayed" into French by being perverted by a bunch of barbarians. If we let the same thing happen to English, we'll become no better than France. We don't want that, now do we?
Matthew Rossi Dec 13th 2008 11:54AM
First off, Latin didn't 'decay' into French. Your ignorance of the origins of the Romance languages aside, you missed every truly important typo in this post (I even misspelled health twice) to point out that I didn't capitalize "I".
In other words, if you consider this some kind of audition for a proofreader position, why would we hire you? You're awful at proofreading.
Jacob Parsons Dec 13th 2008 12:57PM
First of all, it was a joke. Secondly, I do know my Romance languages (Those would be French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian for those interested). I studied Latin for five years under a teacher who knew several languages. French was created as a dialect of Latin in a mostly rural area, i.e. Gallia, where the more literate upper castes of society were virtually nonexistent. The lack of educated people caused the language to loosen its strict rules on noun, adjective, and verb endings (the only way to understand who is doing what in Latin) as well as various other changes. Perhaps "decayed" was too strong of a word. My use of it was likely a result of my distaste for a language with so many unpronounced syllables and an accent that is said to be most difficult for Americans to develop. Lastly, as far as your accusation that I did not do a thorough check of your grammar and spelling, I simply don't care. Like I said before, the more complex stuff doesn't bother me. I make those mistakes too. But leaving "I" uncapitalized is something I learned not to do in my first years in grade school. If I offended you, I apologize.
Saelorn Dec 12th 2008 7:27PM
Why is Titan's Grip, the pinnacle feat of strength regarding big slow weapons, in the Fury tree? Isn't the two-hander tree supposed to be Arms?
For that matter, why is Bladestorm in Arms? Isn't whirlwinding a lot to attack everything really quickly kind of what Fury is all about?
Matthew Rossi Dec 12th 2008 7:39PM
If you think of it that way, then yeah, it's kind of odd. But if you think of fury as the dual wielding tree and think of warrior DPS as being modeled exclusively on 2h weapons (think Barbarians from Diablo II) with 1h weapons really only being for our tanking tree, then you get arms as a 'precision' tree that's all about mastery of a single weapon and fury as berserking.
Bladestorm is in arms because arms needed a big damage ability. Sometimes mechanics beat out the lore conception.
Saelorn Dec 12th 2008 8:20PM
It's a change, new to 3.0, and you'd be perfectly accurate in saying that all Warrior DPS specks are now based on big and slow two-handers, but that doesn't change how Titan's Grip is an abrupt game changer.
Levelling a Fury warrior is all about the (relatively) quick one-handers, hitting repeatedly to keep the flurry going and generally making a blender of yourself, then suddenly you hit endgame and you're slow and unsteady.
It's the exact same thing that Enhancement shamans went through a while back, but in reverse: slow two-hander, slow two-hander, slow two-hander... then suddenly you get dual-wielding and now you're a blender.
I'm not saying that end-game Fury or Enhancement are bad at all, they're just not what I signed up for when I made the character, and not embracing the sudden departure from everything that made the tree what it was is just a way of painfully hurting your DPS and your contribution to the team. Try bringing a non-TG Fury warrior, or a two-hander Enhancement shaman into a serious raid (assume those exist for the sake of argument), and you're a laughing stock.
Deathgodryuk Dec 12th 2008 7:46PM
I take it your new guild is on a mission from God then?
BobTurkey Dec 13th 2008 4:40AM
Don't worry I got it.
Blues Brothers FTW.
Justin Dec 12th 2008 7:55PM
i am currently taking a break but hope to level up fast and get into raiding. How is arms doing in pve at 80? i know when the patch came out it was doing even more dps than fury. Ive been playing arms along time and wish to continue but im wondering if its still viable considering the nerf of blood frenzy and other things.
Grais Dec 12th 2008 11:37PM
I've been thinking the same exact thing Justin. I'm currently on hiatus from WoW due to some things in RL, but every time I look at the Arms tree, my mind just boggles at the amount of raid utility it brings to the table-- for example, how so many talent points play off each other to make you and your party/raid hit harder...
Taste For Blood>Improved Overpower>Impale>Deep Wounds>Trauma>Blood Frenzy>Wrecking Crew
I just see endless streams of crits honestly, just from slapping on a Rend...
Mives Dec 13th 2008 12:16AM
I have spent considerable time playing both Arms and Fury in Nax.
For me Arms is still king when it comes down to single target DPS. Last week, I was able to pull 3k DPS on Patchwerk 10 man. Arms just takes a while to wind up due to its reliance on bleeds, but once it gets going you’ll monster bosses no problem.
TG Fury I’ve found is excellent for trash, generating very high DPS via cleaves and WW. Single target DPS is still quite high but just hasn’t got the added kick of Sudden Death or Bladestorm.
Needless to say, your experience with either build will depend greatly on your gear.
FoxOfWar Dec 13th 2008 4:09AM
Good advice, since I have been thinking about going Arms as my off spec whenever I'm not needed as tank(tanking is very much fun, but so is changing perspective every now and then). I briefly tested Arms on a ZA raid after the lolpatch, and had tons of fun doing dps for a change.
Good luck with going Fury(a spec I really never caught... I'll be standing with my *one* honking big axe right over here).
Mors Dec 13th 2008 7:50AM
I've checked WoWinsider on a daily or so basis since you guys blew the TLPD thing wide open for other people (sigh), and I just happened to catch this article.
It might be worth noting that you likely only needed 13% hit, not 14%, irregardless of the upcoming warrior TG penalty changes. This 8% base specials miss rate vs 9% has been more or less confirmed multiple places in the same thread you originally linked to on EJ, if you had just read the whole thread through.
Not to mention, you make no mention of the almost assured Draenei included in your raids if you're alliance.
You also incorrectly describe how 'hatefuls' work on Patchwerk. Its highest threat and then among them excluding MT, highest HP gets a HS. In the past the melee who died went past an off tank in threat and at some point had more Hitpoints. As a DPS warrior I currently have 29k life raid buffed and I only take HS when I pass an OT in threat. These OTs incidentally receive a threat bonus from every application of HS.
I also gave the link to some more beneficial warrior threads especially the first one.
http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37462-furydps_calculation_spreadsheet/
http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37680-depth_fury_dps_discussion/
As a last note, most of the people who are commenting about fury vs arms haven't evaluated enough because fury DPS currently blows arms out of the water.
Matthew Rossi Dec 13th 2008 11:57AM
We actually had no draenei in our raid last night.
I'm still experimenting with HS vs Cleave: we have so many trash pulls where it seems beneficial to use cleave but my first instinct was always to use HS over it. I'll have to see how it works out this Sunday.
As for Patchwerk... we generally use the 'ooze' strategy, where you move out to halve your health when your threat gets high. I guess I didn't make that clear.
somedumbum Dec 13th 2008 10:32PM
Arms vs Fury will be an endless debate....to try to squash it, yesterday myself (Fury) and another very good warrior (Arms) went balls out on some target dummies with a couple referees in the group...we both peaked at about 2500dps on a single target. It was rough to keep up with her tho (yea she's a girl). When we went to the IF dummies, which are cleavable, i won hands down at 3300dps. So i think the whole thing boils down to which one you like better, as raiding is single target damage 80% of the time.