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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: A Rogue without a cause
by Amanda Dean 
Dec 15th 2008 at 4:00PM
Maximogu of Firetree posed the question "Why bring a Rogue to an 80 heroic?" in the general forums. He claimed that at this point there CC is unnecessary for most tanks that rely on AOE. Most of the trash pulls are handled by AOE classes now, making the Rogue's single target focus obsolete. He argued that Rogues are best suited with Druid tanks that do not handle multiple mobs as well as other tanking classes do.Here are some of the reasons given for bringing a rogue along:
Anushka of Kel'Thuzad: There's a lot of nasty things that can be interrupted in most heroics. Though I wouldn't take more than one rogue.
Khadros of Frostwolf: To listen to the sound of theirs daggers going schlick schlick schlick.
Morgrimm of Korgath: Because one of my friends is a rogue.
Owari of Frostwolf: To DPS, of course.
Mypetgoat of Bladefist: It's one expendible DPS that won't roll on my gear.
Madia of Maelstrom: They need loot and stuff too.All of these responses seem pretty trivial, but hint that in most cases Rogues are still welcome in a heroic group. This discussion brings a few questions to mind:
Have Rogues been rendered obsolete in contemporary PvE?
Should Rogues be given AOE abilities in order stay in the game?
Why am I leveling a Rogue, anyway?
I like this AOE business about as much as I like wearing heels in the mud. As a tanking Druid I'm still a fan of CC, which may make me seem like an over-cautious worry wart. Though it is not as spectacular as watching a Paladin burst down an entire pull, I find that CC helps reduce the number of corpse runs back to the instance. In the end I find this completes the instance faster. When I DPS with an AOE tank, I snarl and sneer just a little when I have to come out of cat to cover Pally who bit off more than the healer can chew.
There are some challenges to this method however. I have to count on my party members to avoid breaking CCs and be prepared to re-up their traps, polymorphs, roots, etc when necessary. I have less trouble with Rogues breaking CC than most AOE DPSers. When I take the time to mark pulls, I still find it hand for folks follow the target order. I PUG more or less everything and many times I find folks bored with, or unwilling to follow my strategy. Does this mean that Bear tanks are also obsolete?
Maybe I'll find it hard to find groups in the future, but for now, I think I'll keep a Rogue in my pocket. We relics from a bygone era need to stick together.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 7)
Tenchan Dec 15th 2008 5:20PM
Have we sunk that low now that someone who calmly and legitimately points out a spelling error gets called troll?!
stevens.ce Dec 15th 2008 5:51PM
We sunk that low a long time ago, unfortunately.
"Unfortunately" took me a while - mistyped it the first time and wanted to be sure my spelling was correct :)
GrayElf Dec 15th 2008 9:00PM
stevens, unfortunately, too many people don't bother to be that careful - well done! :-)
(No, NOT a indirect dig at the article author, just showing a little appreciation :-)
And Todd...well done. As a web site programmer in the past, I can tell you that something like 98-99% (and pro'ly add a few 9's) NEVER report a problem, be it major or minor. On behalf of people everywhere who care about what they do - thank you for pointing out a problem to be fixed. That it was minor really doesn't matter...it's the author's choice (assuming he reads it) whether to correct it or not. By pointing it out, you give him that choice.
(I've had a problem introduced in a site redesign reported 6 MONTHS later, on a site getting millions of hits a month. Ouch)
All the best mate!
Jamison Dec 15th 2008 4:12PM
I play a priest and a rogue at 80 right now, and I've still found a lot of good uses for my rogue, in particular, locking down spell casters. If they were to buff rogues in some way I'd love to see buffs to our ability to keep targets locked down. One cool buff might be an AoE stun or interrupt. For example, the sorcerers in Violet Hold are a major pain. If I'm on my rogue it's usually my job to keep it locked down if we get one in the group. However, if there's two in the pack I can't do anything about it.
So instead of trying to keep rogues on par with dps warriors, I'd love to see some focus on more types of stuns and lockdowns.
Ahoni Dec 15th 2008 4:24PM
"So instead of trying to keep rogues on par with dps warriors, I'd love to see some focus on more types of stuns and lockdowns. "
I don't PvP much, but no. Hell no. Rogues do not need more stuns or lockdowns. Rogues are just fine. L2Adjust people.
Rage Dec 22nd 2008 11:51AM
While this is useful and an example of rogue utility, I don’t think anyone cares! When forming a raid or 5 man rogues are always on the bottom of list now when they use to be top!
Seith Dec 15th 2008 4:16PM
Hey, we get the job done just as well as anyone else. The attitude on my guild and my RL friends is to " have fun" I think a lot of peeps forget this.
Horris Dec 15th 2008 4:14PM
Does it matter? I thought we were supposed to "bring the player, not the class."
zugthu Dec 15th 2008 4:18PM
Kinda in subject with the thread.
I miss the days of single target DPS.
Sure is personal, it is MY opinion and theres no reason anyone else should care.
But I dont like the new "aoe the shit out of heroics" style.
Ive always played single target classes,rogue,feral druid,now a blood DK. And killing them one by one fast with FF is always more fun.
Pip Dec 15th 2008 4:20PM
People bring Rogues for solid DPS. They're at the top of the charts by a large margin right now, where they should be. This sort of reminds me of EQ Rogues wanting more. You sit at the top and poke things, thats about it.
donald.plummer Dec 15th 2008 4:30PM
I wish I could find the rogues topping the damage charts. Doing heroics on my prot paladin I have yet to run with a rogue that does more than 1100dps, even on bosses. And I've run with more than few that were in T7 epics. Every other spec/class I've played has at least one example of a DPS out damaging me, except rogues. And I don't have any Naxx+ gear.
butler Dec 15th 2008 4:37PM
I'd like to know what charts you are referring to, because on the WWS/other dps charts I'm looking at, only HAT rogues exploiting the bug in HAT are able to top charts, otherwise they come in way below BM hunters, some mages and some warriors.
Richard Dec 15th 2008 4:48PM
You clearly play with a bunch of people who have no idea how to play.
Rogues are lucky now (unless they're exploiting the HaT bug) to break top 5 on the meters, in a raid of equally geared and skilled players.
Rogues seriously need a buff in PvE. It's disgusting atm.
Clbull Dec 15th 2008 4:21PM
If the lack of a CC requirement is true because of AoE tanking now... then why am I never picked for instances.
Yeah, I play a Hunter. They also have some CC problems like Rogues do. While Sap only affects certain targets and only works out of combat, at least they don't have a restrictive cooldown on their CC.
Thundagard Dec 15th 2008 5:17PM
Sap needs a buff - if only because Freezing Arrow happened for us hunters. I mean, come on... Ret pallies can CC better than rogues.
donald.plummer Dec 15th 2008 4:33PM
Well, at least until the next patch, Hunters are the kings of DPS. Plus the ranged CC is great. My MM hunter friend I run with is pulling 2.5k dps in heroics w/o naxx gear. I'd pick hunter over rogue any day for a group. They even have great buffs too for AP, especially if their pet has howls and stuff.
Nakabeast Dec 15th 2008 4:26PM
One word. Utility. To survive in a modern heroic/raiding environment, rogues need some sort of utility that makes them desirable other than for their dps. My thoughts? Give rogues a battle rez.
http://www.wowitemcreator.com/view/282471/Antilethal_Injection.html
SleepySlug Dec 15th 2008 4:43PM
Lol, that'd be pretty sweet.
But I agree, giving us some utility, like that rez or even just a new raid buff or something so that we have something else to offer would be nice and really helpful.
I hate that us good rogues have to suffer due to the tons of idiots who roll rogue and somehow manage to stumble to 80 and make us all look like a bunch of incompetents in heroics.
Nakabeast Dec 15th 2008 4:52PM
I completely agree sleepy. Due to the fact that the world's average outlook on rogues is meh anyway, a nice raid buff or other utility would be highly welcomed. I really think a battle rez could work. You get the Empty Syringe reagent, combine it with something from a poison vendor, and you use the spell at melee range on a fallen ally. Simple, but with Druids now having a real rez, I think Rogues can be unique and have a non spell based battle rez that they can use during emergencies. Also, there's no way in hell Rogues are getting a real rez so the battle rez can stay unique :]
Sinthar Dec 16th 2008 10:49AM
Hiya - im not a rogue - and know little about them - my idea for you thou (for raid utility) would not be a buff, but a poison debuff on the boss - say increasing damage by a few percent, and/or maybe a AOE poison (like a poison bomb). I cannot see blizz giving a battle rez tbh (sorry). Buff rogues damage? Well i run with some good ones in guild, and their dps is excellent, so i cant see that either, although in the current situation anythings possible.
GL with sorting it out with blizz