Officers' Quarters: Guild control
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.At the right you'll see Blizzard's illustrious guild control panel. Anyone who's been a guild leader has had to deal with this clunky interface at one time or another. I don't know about you, but I dread having to make adjustments there. I've even gone so far as to download add-ons in order to make some changes easier. But today's column isn't about how unfriendly the interface is, but what choices to make. Here is this week's e-mail:
Dear Scott,
I found your column on Wow insider and it's a very good idea for a column!
I recently started a guild on the Haomarush server called The Kings Guard. It's going quite well with decent officers, a guild bank and tabard.
Something I do want to ask you about however is the settings on the guild control.
I'm not quite sure how much power to give who and to what rank, and also what guild bank depositing/withdrawing rules to set up.
If you could give me any help with settings on guild controls for each rank (I'd be particularly interested to hear what your settings are), it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Yours sincerely,
James Kennedy
(Jimbot) -- Haomarush
Hi, Jimbot. Rarely do I receive such a straightforward question. Usually I'm dealing with thorny, drama-fueled conflicts with no easy answer. It's like fresh air for me!
The guild control panel has a number of options for assigning various guild permissions, but you should reserve the vast majority for your officers and yourself.
Your regular members will need three permissions: Guildchat Listen, Guildchat Speak, and Edit Public Note. You could set up a punitive rank that can listen to guild chat but not speak in guild chat, but I don't believe in that. If someone is causing such an uncontrollable uproar in guild chat that you feel compelled to take the permission away, you might as well remove them from the guild altogether.
The Edit Public Note feature is not well designed. It gives you the ability to edit your own note, which is why I allow anyone in the guild to have this permission. However, it also lets you edit anyone else's note. That can be a problem, particularly since the interface doesn't track who edits what.
I've only ever had a problem with someone editing notes once in nearly four years, however, so I think the risk is worth it. It lets members give each other important basic info like who their main character is or what trade skills they know. This information really should be part of the guild interface, but until Blizzard gets around to adding it (if ever), we're left with this option.
The remaining permissions include access to officers' chat and officers' notes, demotion and promotion of members, invitations to the guild, gkicks, and the message of the day. These options are all best handled only by officers. It means a little bit more work for your officers. It also means you have to be very careful whom you promote to officer status. But in the long run, giving anyone below that rank the ability to invite or kick members -- or change someone's rank -- just introduces too much chaos into the system.
These decisions should never be taken lightly. In many cases, the officers will want to discuss their options before anyone goes ahead and acts. So carrying out the invite, the kick, or the rank change should require someone who's been privy to that discussion.
The officers' chat channel is very useful to officers -- but only if half the guild isn't already in there. It allows us to have the above-mentioned discussions in a private forum where we can be brutally honest about our members. This honesty isn't always a bad thing. Of course sometimes we talk about how someone is a potential problem, but we also talk about how someone has really stepped up and shown the promise of effective leadership.
Officers' chat can be a problem if the officers isolate themselves there and rarely speak in general guild chat. It's an issue I've encountered during the darker periods of my guild's history, where the officers felt persecuted. Since then, I've tried to encourage my officers to be more involved in guild chat. It's better for guild morale if the officers have an active presence there. That way, members can get to know your officers a little bit more. And they can be reassured that officers are paying attention to what is said in the channel.
As annoying as it is to change these guild control permissions in the basic interface, changing guild bank permissions can be even more tedious -- so you want to get it right the first time.
In my guild, we've bounced back and forth on these permissions. At first we tended to leave the permissions more open. We allowed anyone who was an official member to take out a large amount of stacks from the basic vaults, and we allowed the officers to take a large amount of stacks from the officer vaults.
Then an officer got hacked. And it happened to be an officer with a ton of alts, all of whom were promoted. The hacker got away with quite a bit of loot before we were able to catch on and demote the remaining alts. It wasn't a total disaster. Blizzard restored all the items that were taken.
Still, we didn't have access to those items for a few weeks, which was a bit of a hassle. So afterward I changed the permissions to allow very few withdrawals for any rank. This approach stymied hackers (and we did have more people hacked in that time), but it also meant that everyone had to be very selective about what they withdrew. Items that weren't highly desired tended to rot away. The vaults quickly got clogged up with junk. We realized that this system wasn't working out very well, either.
So we tried to find a happy medium between security and convenience. We raised the number of stacks per day for all members, particularly for the lower vaults that hold mostly trade items, recipes, consumables, and the like. Anything valuable that someone deposits there gets moved up to higher vault after a couple of days. People can always request those items from an officer.
Veteran members have their own vault where they can share valuable items with each other, such as BOE rares, hard-to-get recipes, and so on.
The officers' vault has more relaxed permissions now, but we try not to stack items too much. For example, when Void Crystals were used for all the best enchants, we divided them up into stacks of five. That way, instead of a hacker getting 60 shards from three withdrawals, they'd only get 15. If worst came to worst and an officer had more requests that day than they could fulfill, they were always able to ask another officer to withdraw more.
Of course, as you can see in the image above, the character who is the guild leader has unlimited withdrawals by default. I wish it were possible to change that, but as far as I know, you can't. A guild leader getting hacked is pretty much a worst-case scenario. It would be great to be able to limit the damage, but Blizzard apparently disagrees.
As far as the gold in your bank goes, that's an entirely different discussion -- and one I've already posted a column about.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Mastique Dec 15th 2008 1:21PM
It is quite a cumbersome interface. And it amazes me that I can see how much salted venison I have consumed, but not who modified my note in the guild.
We did have an issue with that a while back in our guild, which I am an officer. Mine was not affected, but several members had some offensive notes added to thier guild notes.
The entire guild system does need a bit of an overhaul. I fear this will be a long time coming though.
Chris Dec 15th 2008 1:24PM
Wouldn't requiring your officers to purchase an authenticator help to alleviate some of the stress and need of preparation from the guild? Last time I checked they were $7.04 with shipping and tax.
Every subscriber should have one.
LostOne Dec 15th 2008 1:31PM
"Do you have an authenticator?" "Sure do."
How do you know if he's lying or not?
I have the authenticator, love it. However, I know one guy who would never be able to play because he would always lose the authenticator if he had one. This is the type of guy that every day spends 20 minutes looking for his car keys, so he's always late to work.
lorina Dec 15th 2008 2:03PM
I highly recommend this approach, particularly when your officers have many alts in the guild.
My guild just started this policy, though it's not mandatory. Instead of requiring the authenticator we've split the officers into 2 separate ranks, the higher of which we know have authenticators. That group can withdraw more stacks and access an officers only tab in the bank where we put things like raid flasks and any really valuable items like BOE epics. Every other tab in the bank has beel limited to 5 withdrawals ever since our first member (uh... me) got keylogged. It doesn't completely stop the looting, but certainly reduces the pain. I think our last hacker only got away with 5 BOE blues and some elixirs, nothing we couldn't live without and it was all restored.
bdew Dec 16th 2008 2:30AM
For many of us, outside the US and largest european countries the authenticator costs $6 + $60 shipping. Screw that.
lodcan Dec 15th 2008 1:27PM
this really helps!
LostOne Dec 15th 2008 1:29PM
I think a GM should have the option to password protect his unlimited access, using a DIFFERENT password than their account login. And it uses the authenticator if they have it. That way if a hacker gets lucky and gets the GMs password through a keylogger and gets lucky with the authenticator code once, it's very unlikely they'll get lucky a second time when trying to get unlimited access to the guildbank. Without the password, the GM is just as limited as his officers to access the bank.
But I guess if Blizzard is willing to do full guildbank restores when a GM gets hacked, it isn't worth their time to implement such a system.
eblume Dec 15th 2008 1:33PM
Dear Scott,
Can I join your guild?
Sincerely,
Erich
Vasslus Dec 15th 2008 2:31PM
Are there any addons that track guild vault inventories? Specifically to identify items that haven't been touched in forever?
spamofchaz Dec 16th 2008 3:23PM
This.
And I'd love a way to efficeintly track who donates to the GV as well. Yes, it's on armory, but you have to go through 4 different tabs to see.
The in-game system is too easily overwhelmed by an officer doing normal maintenance/organization.
Gimmlette Dec 15th 2008 11:37PM
Absolutely! My bank officer cries every time he has to clean out the bank because he has no way to date stamp things. With several people leveling alts with inscription, we have no way to know when some inscriptions were added and they are overflowing into all corners of the bank. We went so far as to take over a defunct guild on alts just to have access to their bank but that's filling as well. Date stamping would allow us to sell something 90 days out, just like a grocery.
We had a bunch of stuff taken when our MT's account as hacked. Blizzard still hasn't restored everything that was taken. Guild members were quite upset but used the opportunity to fill the empty spots with similar or better materials. If Blizz does send us back everything that was hacked, I have no place to put it.
How do people get members to use the bank? I'd like suggestions on getting them to take as well as give. They are so generous but think nothing of running to the AH to buy something we have stacks of in the bank, like food.
And actually, I'd like more ranks. We have a "Tourist" rank where people taking time off have their toons stored. When they come back, their toon will be waiting. We have an "Alt" rank. We have a rank for Officer Ats with the same permissions as Officers. Then you don't have to stop what you're doing, log onto your main and hope that you're close to a bank. I also have a bank officer rank with huge permissions so the guy who attempts order in the bank can move things around easily. With myself and officer ranks, that doesn't leave much left to promote people. With all the other things Blizzard is working on, I don't expect a change to this mechanic soon.
Taenwyn Dec 15th 2008 2:08PM
Just for the record, Scott, dividing items into multiple stacks won't save you much grief, unless they're split between tabs. Doesn't cost a withdrawal to combine stacks within the guildbank itself.
If you still use similar tricks, might want to consider some other method.
Tishaka Dec 15th 2008 3:02PM
Great article... My husband and I are the guild leaders of what is arguably the oldest continuing guild on our server. We've encountered all of the above issues and have found a system that we really like. Yes, our officers can invite/demote, but only the higher rank of officers and remove/promote. We have scheduled promotion ceremonies where those eligible get promoted, so it all works well. As for the bank, our 1st tab is for donations and higher ranks to w/d. The second tab is for higher and mid ranks to w/d and tab three is for anyone, save the lowest brand-new member rank to w/d. Tab four is officers only. I go through once a week or so and clear out Tab three, moving items from two to three and from one to two. That gives those higher ranks "first dibs" on the cool stuff, and prevents stuff that no one wants from hanging around forever. All the "junk" thats left is sold on AH or to a vendor and the cash donated to the bank. It works for us, and I guess that's what matters. We look at the bank to be like a thrift store, not a storage closet!
Dave Dec 15th 2008 3:34PM
We've tried to separate the guild tabs into meaningful "item dumps".
Tab 1 and 2 are for basic things that almost everyone can take. Spare cut gems, potions etc - everyone has access to these.
Tab 3 is for raid consumables like elixirs/flasks, repair bots etc - raiders/officers have access to this.
Tab 4 is for crafting/enchanting where only a "craftsman or banker" has access to.
Tab 5 is locked where we put all our expensive stuff. GM and bankers only have access to this tab.
This way if you need something from you don't have access to, you have to ASK someone.
SnippyMcPhail Dec 15th 2008 4:06PM
I always recommend having NO privileges for alts. Officer alts may have /o but that's where I'd draw the line.
This prevents mass ninja of the guild bank and also prevents "hi i'm an alt of Johhny who's an officer!" ... IMPOSTOR WITH PRIVILEGES TO DAMAGE GUILD!
Genkitty Dec 15th 2008 6:46PM
Our guild does similar. All alts are set to the Alt rank upon entry to the guild. Furthermore, to get an alt into the guild you have to wait for an officer to login, then ask said officer as your main to let $Altname into the guild. Sometimes cumbersome, but it really cuts down on security risks.
New members to the guild have to wait 2 weeks before they can withdraw from the bank. We rarely get complaints, and people who are looking for a quick ninja generally gquit pretty quickly.
Frank Dec 15th 2008 4:21PM
more columns about how to set up banks, please. i'm not kidding. i love reading how other guilds set up their banks.
jurandr Dec 15th 2008 6:49PM
I like your gbank setup there. With ours, nobody has any access, except the raiders, which is silly because we have 6 tabs up and running. Officers have 3 withdrawals, raiders have 1, and everybody else? too bad, so sad! I'm really not compelled to donate to the guild bank, considering that I never know if I'm allowed to take something out. What's really annoying- as an officer- is being hounded by somebody that wants a recipe for savory deviate delights. Then I have to pop into a major city and mail the thing to him, and mailing takes an hour so he has to wait. >.>
Charlie Dec 16th 2008 9:04AM
Officer Chat is awsome. Period.
Ussualy because after you've spent so much time in the guild, your best friends are the officers.
So much fun.