Do you care about PvP anymore?
by Matthew Rossi 
Dec 16th 2008 at 1:00PM
Today, our own Zach Yonzon asked if you were ready for Arena Season 5. This led me to reflect and realize that no, I'm not ready. I don't even know if I'd say not ready so much as finally, completely and totally uninterested in PvP entirely. I simply don't care, not even remotely. I don't care about Wintergrasp, haven't been there since it opened. I don't care about Strand of the Ancients, or any of the older battlegrounds. I sure as heck don't care about Arena and I'm not trying to come up with a comp for any of the brackets there. By intertwining the aspects of PvP as they have, making it so any of the decent rewards require you to do both arenas and gather honor points, Blizzard has finally succeeded wildly in their 'Make PvP totally uninteresting to Matt Rossi' program. They've been working on it for a while but with Wrath of the Lich King, they've finally delivered the goods.Part of the problem is that I just really don't care about arenas, and never really have been able to make myself care about them. Since I play a warrior, I'm expected to spec arms and go smash faces in them (to the point where I found myself getting a ludicrous amount of tells asking me if I had a team/ was specced arms) but I simply find the playstyle tedious. I played 3x3 and 5x5 for roughly a season, did okay (not great, I'll admit that I'm not terribly skilled at it either) and gratefully stopped doing it as soon as I could spec prot and start tanking, Now that I'm fury, I don't see the point in taking the talents clearly designed towards PvP viability when I could take ones that increase my raid DPS. Heck, I haven't even been to Wintergrasp.
And that's why PvP has lost what lustre it had for me. I enjoyed piddling around on my off time in BG's. I enjoyed taking my alts in to grind for some decent (outdated, but still decent) gear for them to use in instances or on PuG raids: the stuff wasn't great, but a few pieces of Season 2 on my alt meant that he had more survivability and could put out better DPS for that Karazhan PuG, or stay alive to heal longer. I was the very definition of a casual PvPer. I dabbled in BG's on the side, when I wasn't tanking or healing an instance run or raiding. I played BG's more on my shamans, since it was a good way to practice healing in extreme circumstances.
I find myself wondering what BG's are like with the people like me gone. Who do the dedicated PvPers kill? Each other? Maybe the experience is better for them without folks who barely know what they'd doing to zoom in on and stunlock to death while we desperately try and throw Earth Shield on ourselves. So how about you? Are you a PvP player first and foremost loving the new focus,or do you miss your free kills? Are you a sometimes PvPer who finds that sometimes is now closer to never, or has PvP taken on new significance? I could imagine going the other way, from a casual PvPer to an enthusiast, even if it hasn't been that way for me.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Battlegrounds, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 15)
Midmainah Dec 16th 2008 1:03PM
i WOULD be interested in PvP, if I wasn't forced to do the arena to purchase the gear. Battlegrounds (the funnest PvP for me) are insignificant and pointless now, so screw it.
Dan Dec 16th 2008 1:13PM
My thoughts exactly. I was on a 5v5 in season 3, and we did reasonably well, and ended up with a good amount of veng gear. But after a while we found that it was a chore to get people together for matches, and if it came up that someone needed to be subbed in so they could get their matches for the week, everyone would imediately volunteer. After a while we just stopped playing, not by any decision, just because no one really wanted to any more. I haven't been interested in arena since.
And now, with the PvP rewards tied to arena ratings, I'm not bothering with BGs either. And wintergrasp? I go there to farm eternals sometimes, and have hit up the vendor once or twice using shards I've gotten from dungeons, but it's a pretty big "meh" otherwise.
Wispur Dec 16th 2008 1:17PM
This is the same for me, I had great fun doing BGs and getting the occasional piece of gear for my efforts. However, I strongly dislike arenas. And being forced to play arenas to get the same stuff BGs used to give pretty much kills it for me.
Tech Dec 16th 2008 1:34PM
I completely agree.
The whole "e-sport" tag that Blizz has been so actively pursuing so that they can run tournaments and leagues and such with pro gamers in the form of arenas has pretty much destroyed PvP for me, which was my favorite part of the game.
I understand they are doing this because if they can create a legitimate "e-sport" than they will have people continuing to play the game for years after it has faded away simply for this aspect of the game.
I wish that they would put the emphasis back on BG's and world PvP so that the majority of players can continue to enjoy the experience. Let the hardcore have there own tournament servers where arena ratings are required for all gear and leave the regular realms the way they were with only the best pieces of gear having rating requirements and the majority of gear available to all people with no rating requirements.
Clevins Dec 16th 2008 1:38PM
Yep. My rogue has a few thousand HKs because every so often I just wanted to go BG and would for a few hours. It was fun because I didn't have to find a group, didn't have to worry about any of that, but could still go in and do OK. My rogue's in full S2, bought for honor. And won't be doing PvP in Wrath because I hate Arena. HATE. It's everything I don't want in my PvP... you have to get together a team, you have to play 10 games (not 8!), you have to all be on and want to do it at the same time. No, it's not *hard* and it's pretty fast... but it takes away the casual, "I'll go screw around in the BGs a bit" feel.
I don't care if I can't get cutting edge gear, but not being able to get most any gear aside from some meh blue crafted stuff just says to me that Blizzard is still enamored of the whole esport thing. Why, I don't know since the last two esport leagues died due to lack of enough interest/funding/support.
Manatank Dec 16th 2008 1:44PM
I enjoy playing in battlegrounds a lot, but I think arenas are boring and stupid, and I refuse to waste my time doing them. This means that in a few seasons I will be completely out matched in battlegrounds by people who don't even necessarily have more skill than I do.
By allowing arena players to obtain the best PvP gear they basically make doing arenas a requirement to compete in any PvP. I just don't understand this decision. It felt unfair in BC to be left several seasons of gear behind the arena players, but at least it was something I could deal with. With skill, strategy and numbers season 4 players could be overwhelmed by season 2 players. I still had fun playing in battlegrounds.
But now... The crafted PvP blues are okay, but they are going to get wrecked by Hateful Gladiators.
Please don't make me play arenas just to enjoy a different aspect of the game.
In the mean time I'm going to keep playing battlegrounds while I can. Right now I'm having more fun in bgs than I have in a long time. No one has sufficient PvP gear, so my raid epics/crafted PvP blues leave me with a fighting chance. Even playing as a prot paladin. Obviously this wont last past the first week or two of arenas.
Ryan Dec 16th 2008 2:07PM
Yup, count me in. I cannot stand arenas. I viscerally hate them. I am now forced to participate in Arenas for just about any piece of PVP gear. This pretty much means that I will not be able to participate in any PVP at all due to lack of gear (since there's no way in hell I'm actually going to play arenas).
Kassius Dec 16th 2008 2:12PM
Yeah you guys are totally right, screw organised tactical PVP, i just want to farm alterac valley over and over and over and over for some mediocre gear.
Its way more fun than tight, strategic intense pvp in a personal setting with your friends where skill and planning rewards you, and you can judge your success against others. thats just lame
I prefer to just drop time into a snowy black hole and get some meritless reward.
Yeah, thats fun.
kabshiel Dec 16th 2008 2:13PM
Yeah, I love battlegrounds and hate arenas. Too bad you can't get any PVP rewards without arena-ing now, so I'll probably just stop doing PVP altogether.
The new BG is really fun, if super confusing the first few times you run it, so I'll probably run that every once in a while. I also love to do AV, but every match in my battlegroup since the expansion has been 10 Horde vs 40 Alliance, making it unplayable.
Midmainah Dec 16th 2008 2:24PM
@Kassius
You are COMPLETELY missing the point that there are many types of PvP (BG, open-world, Arena, etc) yet the Arena is the only one that awards gear. I think that is what bothers most people.
Good for you if you and your friends get cozy together in tight spaces. Who spins the bottle first?
PvPers should have a chance at PvP gear, simple as that. It should matter WHERE they do it.
k thx bye
Midmainah Dec 16th 2008 2:27PM
"It shouldn't matter WHERE they do it." is that I meant to say, sorry for the typo.
Relk Dec 16th 2008 2:35PM
I agree. I did some casual pvp back in the days when AV was around 8 hours long. After they shortened it, I pvped more (by then in full Dragonstalker, which was the best pvp gear at the time). I didn't really get into the arena craze until Season 3. I hated it! I played season 3 and 4 mainly because my brother liked it.
But, I believe I am finished with pvp as well. (I may do some BGs for the easy achievements, but I'm fairly sure I won't arena again.) I was in Wintergrasp one time for the 25 man raid boss (which was great fun, btw). But, I am, and have always been, mainly a pve type. I will go back to tanking heroics and raids and still have a fun time. I just hope that will be enough to maintain my interest in the game now.
Chuck (Vampfury) Dec 16th 2008 2:51PM
I am a casual PvPer - I never did a single PvP until I was 70, earned up for my epic mount, did a bunch of rep grinding for goodies. I was running out of things to do so I started in on the BGs, I was happy to find out I could hop on play a bit leave with some honor and mark(s). Then I started checking the gear, oh just from BG honor & marks, not bad. So I really did start playing quite a bit of PvP until the point I had all the main pieces I wanted.
I leveled a DK to 80 and thought I gotta try him in PvP, let's go find out what gear I can get for BG, where are the BG vendors??
So unless this changes I am probably not going to bother with PvP, focus on the heroics and raiding. I love the tabard, rep grind while doing your dungeons - very nice.
Bloodchills Dec 16th 2008 2:41PM
Arenas aren't required to do anymore. Do the Wintergrasp raid! It's so easymode!!
And you get loooot. I got 87 Resil on my Hateful Felweave chest, after gems. I'll have sooo much resil by the time I'm done, it's gonna be EPIC!
For me, PvP is about worldpvp, which has certainly been improved in almost every aspect of the game. If you don't like it, don't PvP and also don't whine when you get ganked by someone 3 lvls below you.
I personally think every player would benefit from doing PvP as much as possible, especially if they raid. It's just another part of the game that makes this stuff fun.
With the new Warlock teleport, I get to add so much to my PvP experience. I can blink out of sight and come back dishing more pain, and then blink away again. This experience has made my time in Northrend so enjoyable.
I guess if it's not for you, don't do it! But don't QQ about it.
Sharkhunt Dec 16th 2008 2:54PM
Deep into season 4, it was pretty typical to go into a PUG BG and see more than half of the people playing there wearing season 2 gear. Here we are at the onset of season 5 and there's a full set of resilience gear available from crafters and a slightly better set of gear with no arena rating requirement.
BGs went on in S4 despite most players wearing S2 gear, and BGs will go on on WOTLK despite most players running around in something less than the absolute best PvP gear available. "Forced to Arena" is an ignorant attitude at best, and a disingenuous argument at worst.
Grohm Dec 16th 2008 3:00PM
Exactly the same. I absolutely love BSs, but I hate arenas. Since you are pretty much required to be good at arena to get the gear you need to be good in a BG, I find myself almost never entering a BG (Despite PvPing in BGs extensively since classic WoW). In fact, I've only entered Strand of the Ancients once. I wish they would implement a way for those who love BGs to experience them and be competitive without requiring us to play their "e-sport." Leave the arena to the arena people and let us keep our battleground fun.
dejoblue Dec 16th 2008 3:28PM
There are 3 problems here.
* Blizzard is still reeling from the ill fate of the HW grind and original BG implementation. Their Arena system is an attempt to have an ESport of WoW, much like their counterpart SC and WC3, which was successful.
* Players complained about HW grind and were told they would be given a PVP play-style that didn't involve a HW grind or AFK sessions. They got arenas when they were expecting a BG fix. Now to be successful, they usually have to bail on their friends and spec a very specific way.
On top of that you have to hunt for yourself to find a team, or create a new team, WEEKLY. This has come about because in arenas it is ALL about the class and NOT about the skill. It doesn't matter that I am a Feral Druid and my best friend is a Mage. We will never play together. We will spec right, he will look for a Rogue Ill look for a War and that is that. It is also very patronizing, to me at least. The last time I healed on my Druid was in Ahn Quiraj, I am rusty to be sure. Yet in arenas, as resto, I am a freaking GOD, albeit a pillar humping travel-form popping one.
* Players Arena for the GEAR. The MAJORITY of players I have encountered over 3 servers and 3 guilds in the time arenas have been out DO NOT LIKE ARENAS. They DESPISE them and they want to do BGs, with their friends, for gear.
Blizzard needs to realize that the failure of BG/HW grind was not the grind itself, it was the ceaselessness of the grind, the maintenance of your rank by the LITERAL necessity of continuos 18 hour plus play per day. People WANT to grind out BGs for gear, at their own pace, just like the entire rest of the game is a huge grind. It just doesn't require 24/7 play to maintain your Onyxia key or your MC attunement. Let us collect 500 marks of each BG for a piece of gear, that is all we wanted, NOT having to bail on our friends and spam in trade chat LFClassX 1800 2s PST, where its some schmo well never talk to again when were done, like a bad one night stand.
Lake Wintergrasp sucks just as much with the Tenacity buff in tow.
The bottom line is, YOU CANT BALANCE THE CLASSES. If you COULD we would be able to play with our friends in Arenas and have set teams. because we CANT we want to play with our friends. We CAN in BGs. NOW there are now rewards for playing in BGs other than the accompaniment of your Friends.
This leads down a line where we are playing with our friends in PVE content only, chatting on vent. Once we get the raids on farm status, for me, in about 2 weeks is my expectation, we will start looking for other things to do on the 4 nights a week we have off of raiding. SINCE we wont be BG and CERTAINLY NOT ARENAS. (Add your own conclusion here)
stevens.ce Dec 16th 2008 3:37PM
This.
When I hit 70 on my hunter, the first thing I did was hop into AV and never leave - I wanted a complete S2 set, because it looked great, had great stats, and was a great pre-Kara set. I'm at 76 now and still have it. It suits my playstyle (mostly solo now), and my need for things that match. I love Battlegrounds and I like Wintergrasp and SoA, but after a season of consistently losing in arena to the esport types, I said screw it - there's no fun in it, and I'm not going to support Blizzard's intent to make everyone who wants to PvP for tangible rewards (i.e. gear) into an arena player just so they can stroke their esport egos. Goodbye PvP.
Eisengel Dec 16th 2008 4:39PM
Total agree. I've played Arena with old time PvPers who all had High Warlord from way back. We got smashed, but because we don't have skill, but because we don't care to exploit the Arena system to the degree that the high Arena ranks do. When we enter any BG, Arathi, AV... we're usually the top overall damage, and top heals, hands down. In general we usually win whatever BG we go in to unless we're outnumbered by quite a bit or are going up against a large (5-man or greater) premade.
I absolutely hate Arena. If they cut it out of the game tomorrow I'd be an extraordinarily happy camper. It's really a CC battle, not PvP.
Ircasha Dec 16th 2008 4:44PM
Blizz giving Arena requirements on PvP rewards pretty much means I won't PvP. I despise Arena more than words can properly convey.
They should have implemented both a BG and an Arena set.
Players need to be given an option to reasonably advance their gear via their chosen playstyle. By emphasizing Arenas, they are asking me to play certain classes with certain specs (to be successful at any rate). This narrowing of available options to participate is not, for me, any fun.
Those saying that Arenas are not required are being disingenuous. To have 'fun' in PvP, players need to be more or less on equal footing (skill prevails). Oddly, to do that requires gear. If you get too far behind the gear curve (say in crafted blues versus S5), the possibility of finding a fun match-up in a BG becomes minimal. Gear trumps skill. Getting two or three shot is not fun. Not being a masochist, I prefer to avoid that scenario, so I would need to participate in Arenas. Which I won't, since I dislike them.
Or you could disallow the use of Arena gear in BGs. I mean, players play Arena for fun, right? They never troll BGs once they're geared up just to wtfbbq people in blues for shits and giggles, do they?