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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: Pick up groups to pick up points
by Amanda Dean 
Dec 16th 2008 at 9:00PM
I'll give you a quick run down of the general forums today:- Take away the arena point requirement, or else!
- Epic flight costs too much!
- Requiring arena points for PvP gear is a slap in the face!
- I can't get this or that achievement because it involves something I don't want to do!
- This is the end of casuals, I don't have time to play arenas!
- /waggle
- GG Bliz, the arena requirement is going to make me go play <insert any other MMORPG here>!
- Death Knights should tank!
- If you're going to make us play arenas, let us PUG them like battlegrounds!
It is hard to find someone who is happy with this new PvP development. I'm indifferent. Personally I find arenas to be the best part of PvP and the purpose of battlegrounds anyway. Like so many others, you need not agree. That last theme however, Blizzard should players to PUG arenas, gave me a moment of pause.
One such thread was started by Painraze of Shattered Hand. He would like to queue up for the arenas and go without having to futz around with forming a team and coordinating schedules with others. Like many others he says that he does not have the time to wait for organized arena play. Meeting with considerable agreement, he solidified his point by saying:
Let serious Arena players get in well coordinated groups, let the people who just want to play and have fun pug their way to better gear. Serious Arena players will still have the best gear so their l33tness isn't threatened. It's win-win.
For the most part he was met with agreement. Others, of course, thought it was the worst idea ever. Undoubtedly, arena PUGs would most likely be defeated regularly. The biggest issue that I can see is PUGing would not allow for team ratings, but individual ratings are most important now. Blizzard would have to develop a new queuing system.
I'm not sure exactly what the justification for the arena point requirement. I'd be down with abolishing it, but it would be nice for Blizzard to offer this tidy little work around. I'll most likely be teaming up with some random schmoe who does their own thing and probably refuses to use vent until my friends get caught up anyway. I'm sure there will be plenty who follow Nogi of Nathrezim's suggestion of creating a team and single-queuing ten times in a row to get a few points.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Forums, Battlegrounds, Arena, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Megi Dec 16th 2008 10:57PM
I can't believe that people whine about the 5000g for epic flying. When I dinged 80 with my DK I had the cash available for all the levels of flying skill and the fancy shmancy DK flying mount. A week later and I'm back at 6000g
If you can't get epic flyer at 80, with the easy dailies and tons of quests, you don't deserve it.
All this forum QQ shares one thing. Everyone wants something for nothing. And blizzard knows better than that. If you bought the game, logged on and instantly had a level 80 char with 25 man epics and 50 mounts, you'd have nothing more to do and and quit.
If you can't reach your goal, be it epic flyer or high arena ratings, you should set your goals lower or try harder.
Speaking of trying harder, I'm working on my 50 mounts achievement and I realized that this could take a lot more work than I first expected. I first felt like giving up, but thats not gonna get me an albino drake... You just gotta keep trying. Don't expect free handouts.
borderguard Dec 16th 2008 11:15PM
They should have some sort of PUG alternative, though the rewards should be somewhat less. Here is my opinion:
Offer two brackets of everything (much like the 10 man and 25man dungeon setup, which has two separate tiers of gear, and two separate types of badges)
-have the team arena AND a guild BG tier (yes thats right, BG guild rankings)
AND
-have the current PUG BGs and some PUG arena counterpart
feel free to refute me on this or make suggestions, but also think about how cool it would be to have guilds be ranked in BGs (playing only against other organized guilds of course)
fauxgt4 Dec 16th 2008 11:24PM
Dear Santa,
I want free pvp gear. I want fast birdie to fly. For free. Don't make the scary arena thing come near me. I'd like a trinket that grants me a few hard to earn achievements every time I click it, so the other boys and girls in my guild can see how cool I am.
Signed,
Gimmiegimiegimmie
PS- While you're at it, I want "IDKFA" mode allowed. I should be able to 1-shot every other class. Otherwise I'm going to Warhammer.
El Grey Dec 16th 2008 11:27PM
-5k for flight is possible but you need to either farm a lot or to trade hard. i picked latter option and got my flight mount soon enough. doable but no pain - no gain here. it was interesting and a good learning experience.
-i am in favor of arena requirements cause they nullify welfare epics concept.
-however i do agree (not fully but by large extent) with statements like
***"Requiring arena points for PvP gear is a slap in the face!"***the concept of arena is not appealing to me. the concept of BG is. that's why is i don't like earning APs in order to get PvP gear. another day i saw a topic called like "give us epic set for BGs which would not be usable at arenas". i would go gladly for that.
***"This is the end of casuals, I don't have time to play arenas!"***i am not a kid with tons of free time. i could do arenas on my own if i had chance to but i had to consider my teammates availability too. this is my story - i had to wake up at 7am just to play arenas with my partner simply because we lived in different timezones. you don't always have a large supply of people you can/want to team up with so i was in the situation "take it or leave it". not exactly pleasant gaming experience, is it?
***"GG Bliz, the arena requirement is going to make me go play !"***i left wow for a few months for warhammer. i came back because of wotlk, promised changes to pvp and "unprepared" status of warhammer (which is only a matter of time). should blizz promises turn lie and war improves i can leave the game again.
Kyle Dec 16th 2008 11:42PM
I just want some equality between arena and BG gear. Those of us who don't like Arena due to the lack of gameplay (IMO) and prefer the teamplay of CTF, CP, etc-based BGs are shunned and get the lowest quality PvP gear at expensive prices. IMO Arenas and BGs should be on the same level, just two different ways to PvP and there shouldn't be a bias towards Arena players vs BG players. I do like BGs but I just can't stand Arena, sorry Blizz.
miko Dec 16th 2008 11:46PM
the worst thing about this whole 'debate' about the lack of PvP rewards without Arena particpation is the fact it removes choice from an aspect of a game which has always been about offering player choice and perhaps even worse than that the fascist and self centered attitudes of those who aready enjoy Arena who simply refuse wrap their head around the idea that some else may not.
i refuse, as someone who previously enjoyed casual BG PvP mixed in with PvE (as many do) to be fodder to support Arena players ratings in a meta game i have never had any interest in.
as such and due to the fact i cannot gain any gear through BG PvP alone to make enjoyable participation viable WoW's PvP game is now a no-go as far as i'm concerned.
so grats to the Arena devs and the crowd who think it's great you've taken a game who's PvP SHOULD be focused around large scale battles between the Horde and the Alliance (something only an MMO can actually offer in scale) and turned into small map, small team deathmatch a hundred other games can actually do better.
Kyle Mac Dec 17th 2008 12:09AM
Im ok with having to do arena because i never did. The main thing that I am very depressed about is how bad every classe's except Death Knights, armor teirs look like a giant craped it out and called it epic. I mean I know northrend armor is all beat up and wartorn but, Blizz you over shot the rugged look. Green gray dark gray r the coloers that seperate savage from deadly, not much of a eye chacher im sad QQ.
Balius Dec 17th 2008 12:34AM
The problem with requiring arena points on battleground gear is that it requires players to do something ostensibly more hardcore in order to gear up for a less hardcore but more enjoyable activity. It's like requiring players who enjoy doing heroics with friends to run 25 man raids in a regimented raiding guild before they can wear the gear heroics provide.
I wouldn't say it's a slap in the face, but it does seem like a backwards setup that has significant potential to drive people off. If it's even true that you need an arena rating (I don't really PVP in either BGs or Arena, so it's not really applicable to me and I haven't checked) that is.
Jason Dec 17th 2008 12:40AM
As a player who wants to have the best gear available, I am forced to participate in a system I don't care for. As someone who has PVP'ed since before the original honor grind system, I can honestly say that I have more fun playing in Battlegrounds than in Arenas. Arenas are just team vs team duels. I prefer trying to complete the BG objectives while killing other people.
Having done Season 1 to Season 3, I can say that the Arena queuing system is broken. I left the game to play AOC and Warhammer before Season 4, but if I stuck around I'd have participated in it. More times than not, my teams faced teams with 2k+ ratings yet we lost tons of points, because those teams got everything and then started a new 1.5k rated team. I have no suggestion on how to fix that, short of dumping the team rating and using the highest player rating across all three brackets.
If Blizzard could fix the queuing system, then Arena play might be more enjoyable than it was the last time I participated. They fixed the problem with pre-made groups in Battlegrounds, so maybe they'll figure something out for fixing the Arena queues.
As I wrap this up, another thought occurred to me. If Arenas expanded to something besides straight Team Deathmatch mode, they might have a bigger appeal. A 5v5 CTF arena could end up being very interesting. Or perhaps a new twist on the Team Deathmatch -- Instead of playing to the last man standing, set a timer, and allow people to res in the Arena. The team with the most kills wins.
As you can see, I prefer options, and the new Arena rating on PVP Gear takes away my options. Oh and before someone tells me I can get a blue set from Battlegrounds, I'm aware and I can also get a blue set from crafting.
uberminion Dec 17th 2008 1:13AM
according to http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/16/season-5-faq-continued/ there is a buttload of gear you can get without any Arena points. It looks like there are only a couple of pieces of the Deadly Gladiator set you need Arena points for. I honestly don't see why this is such a problem.
mmmmrrglrlrl Dec 17th 2008 1:43AM
It must be obvious by now( or a few years ago) that arena is a source of evil on wow.
Its the cancer, the main QQ problem, the odd thing, what doesnt fit.
Most of the complains are somehow caused by the arena.
Requirements,chaning class balance,resil qq.
Blizz was even going to change the way water works in wow thanks to them.
Bossy Dec 17th 2008 2:57AM
Blizzard made a great expansion Lore wise. A pity most of you guys didn't take the time and efort to even look around. Just hitting 80 ASAP without even reading quests or looking around.
WotLK - quest and lore design wise - is by far the best ever for a Fantasy MMORPG .....
That said.
Blizzard also made a few mistakes that could cost them dearly....
1. They gave in on the PVE whiners:
"whaaambulance, with the new expansion my gear will not be worth anything at level 72. I "worked" so hard for it. whaaa".
Result: Blizzard made the leveling processing a pain for the first 8 levels, because you couldn't do ONE bit with the gear found.
2. They gave in on the PVE casual whiners:
"whaaambulance, the attunement system is too hard in TBC, revered is too thigh for doing heroics. Whhhaaa".
Result: Blizzard first changed it to honoured and now even deleted ALL attunements. Same goes for Kara.
3. They gave in on the no time Casuals:
Mobs are WAY too easy and something doesn't fit here. OK for dungeons getting easier for PUG's. That's right but why the solo content on mobs should be a laugh, I don't know. It is not merely because we have epic gear, because the mobs just don't hit hard. So I think this is even a programming error.
The guys responsible for the PVE open world part did NOT do their job well.
4. They gave in on the biggest NERD group in all MMORPG land. The (laughs) hardcore PvP guys. Wow is all about MOTIVATION to keep playing and having fun. The present system of Arena is all about DEMOTIVATION and stop playing.
I am NOT against Arena, but .... excluding 90% of your players to have decent PvP gear is just insane.
Ok you think you are the champ in PvP? OK let them have a few items (weapons - shoulders - cape) that will SHOW OFF his status but let the rest be grinded for it.
I liked the old system where a 1500 player needed 7 weeks to have his ONE little piece. The "elite" could have it in 2 or 3 weeks. Now the motivated and PAYING¨PvP'er" will NEVER have it and he will have LONG been demotivated to keep playing for it than the 7 weeks needed to have that little piece of shit in the old system.
Of all the above the Arena ratings could have a very - very serious influence on Wow.
The last two weeks were appalling in BG's. No BG opened as we were used to .... because the PVP gear wasn't there yet (another little error).
While this will change now... it SHOWS a LOT of people play to have fun in the PvP BG's. How many ? Well mostly the solo gamer, the casual gamer, the gamer with not a lot of time on his hands.....
All these guys are a very good portion of the PAYING subscribers base.
The Arena rating for ALL decent PvP gear could be the real turning point in Wow as a success story.
The guy who decided to give in on the whaaaambulance of some PvP arena guys made the biggest mistake of all in WotLK.
Grtz. You are about to kill off X% of players within 4 to 6 weeks.
KirilMKD Dec 17th 2008 4:37AM
Ok Amanda you suck. You suck so much that i cant read you anymore. I know you are too lazy to even try get something that you want equipment to fall down from sky. Stop writing stupid posts you dont have a clue. And go play that other mmo that you are speaking about, or l2p
Sleepless4life Dec 17th 2008 5:27AM
Repost here!!!
OMFG! I'm Really getting tired of this *****crap for realz yo! Retired wow/pvp player here. I like to keep up to date with wow pvp as much as i can. All i want is to read wow insider's insight on pvp and such. Not this frigging constant whining bout " wtf! I hate arena. F U! Blizz for ruining PVP shit". Ok one, two three times complaining is ok.I get it! You don't like Arena/rating system/BGS etc etc. Why are you even commenting on this blog if you hate it so much? If you want to rant to your liking plz get out of this blog go read some of Mat Rossi's blogs. Geez! I'm guessing that be more to your liking.
I'll give some insight to my exp with wow pvp. Cuz really i was a true pvper if i say so myself. My first duel ever was when i just dinged 30. Scared for shitz to even try out bgs. But that duel changed my my whole perspective on wow. Needless to say i got beaten real bad. I looked at my self hard as to what i did wrong and what i could do to make it better. that's when i knew i'd be a pvper for life. Not that i thought pve content was lacking or anything. I just thought i liked pvp a lot better. Coming from playing Unreal before WoW it wasn't such a big leap of faith at all. The point of what I'm trying to make is not all people r cut out for pve content. WE i.e: me and others like me live and die for pvp. I never cared for gear as much i cared for the competitiveness of the game to me gear was alwayz second to that and having fun of course. I remember doing av at 60 for months didn't want to ding60+ lvl to go to outland, also being in greens for crap sake in 70's bgs when season 2 arena was still going on. I didn't care how OP/Geared ppl were in bgs i'd still fight you. No matter how many times i died or got pwned cuz i knew i'd be on equal lvl one day. Be it skill, gear, addons or whatever. And i bet most pvpers had exp something like that when they first started out.
And now all i hear is ZOMG !!! Gear Gear Gear... What's the point of pvp if that's all you care about. And from reading all the complaints, whining,criticism some of you aren't pvpers at all. Or don't care. That much is obvious. If you want the best gear your gonna to have to work for it. Nothings free. Not IRL not in Wow. I don't expect to be decked out in T7.xxx or better when not pveing why not use the same measurement for pvp? And don't tell me you can't get gear. Cuz Blizz went out of it's way to make good gear for everyone not just people that just pvp all day or raid all day. But of course if you want to have the best gear your goin to have to be the best. There's nothing wrong with that. Nobody is forcing you to do nething, you don't like it don't do it. Plain and simple.
All this hate is really frustrating to see. Why should i leave for WAR or whatever just to pvp ? I have friends in wow, i loved playing Wow even with all it's problems. Am i less entitled to play Wow becuz i pvp/arena? No, but sadly that seems to be the overall sentiment around here.
Ok that's all for now on this topic not just this blog Zach ;). Just got tired of seeing all the hate. Had to give my 2 cents.
Forgive my English/typing. Not my first language after all.
Neph US Velen or used to be ='(
Rem Dec 17th 2008 5:56AM
Does anybody but me realize that you can buy the Savage gear for pure honor in Hall of Legends (and Alliance version of) Costs a shit ton, but hey, quit bitching. I made 50k honor today so it's not that big a deal is it?
Ruta Dec 17th 2008 5:56AM
- I can't get this or that achievement because it involves something I don't want to do!
This one is hilarious. I've seen this a lot recently because of Winter's Veil. Players who have either never touched a cooking recipe in their life (lol y do i need tht mage maks food 4 me lolz) or decide "Yarr, I be a pirate without thinkin' of me consequences, matey."
And then are now all in whine mode because they can't do something simple like cook cider.
Kanuris Dec 17th 2008 6:05AM
MONEY. IS. SO. DAMN. EASY. TO. GET.
I'm running Stratholme for Abomination Stitchings and Rivendare's Deathcharger. I avoid as much trash as possible and DE everything i pick up. 15 minutes work tops.
Eternal Essences, Illusion Dust and Large Brilliant Shards auction for a lot. I only jump on my bank alt once every few days after piling stuff onto him then spend a good hour or two AHing stuff (WTB New auctioneer and postbox addon).
I've 5k gold on that bank alt now, without even trying.
boronak Dec 17th 2008 7:43AM
Personally i think arena is the worst thing ever to happen to wow. For the casual player or the unfortunate people who's class isn't really suited to close combat its just a pain in the behind.
If they want arena to be a true test of skill give everyone standard arena gear for their spec that is the same for everyone all season long and make the rewards like the achievement rewards. That way you can start arena half way through a season without been totally outgeared.
If it was up to me pvp gear would not exist. Everyone in bg's and arena would have the same standard gear, then people with skill but less time might stand a chance. Also not been an easy way to gear an alt we might get rid of a few of the afk'ers and people who queue up just to lose to get their points
Eternauta Dec 17th 2008 7:58AM
Epic flyers DO cost to much!
Really.
I don't want to "work" ingame to gain virtual money for a flying mount. I play to have fun, not to have a second job (a job I don't get paid for).
Kraas Dec 17th 2008 8:01AM
Requiring arena points for regular PVP gear is redonk. And yes, epic flight training DOES cost too much. It should be lowered to 4000g.