Ghostcrawler's tips on Loken

We've known that heroic Loken is currently the hardest mob in the game for a bit now. Alex broke the story a couple weeks ago, and Loken is currently killing approximately 1.8 times as many players as the next hardest boss, Sapphiron. That statistic is skewed a bit too, considering Sapphiron is a 10/25 man fight, and Loken is only a 5 man.
One of the chief complaints about Holy Paladins has been their relative lack of AoE heals. This becomes particularly evident when a Paladin attempts to heal Loken in the Halls of Lightning. It should be noted however, as Ghostcrawler does and I can attest to, it can be done with a Paladin healing.
It's on this note that Ghostcrawler has provided some tips on the strategy used to defeat heroic Loken. And while these appeared in discussion about Holy Paladins, they apply to any class equally well.
Tip #1: "Everyone moves to melee together. The Paladin casts Beacon of Light on himself."
Basically when it's time for everyone to be next to each other, everyone and their mother better move to the melee. If not, they're going to become deceased and that's pretty much the show. The Paladin will use Beacon of Light on himself here to help heal the group.
Tip #2: "When you get the emote for Lightning Nova, everyone moves back together."
I've found this is the tricky part in the fight. When everyone need to move in there is a defined point that they're going to. It's not really relative. "Move to gigantic Tauren DPS Warrior," is easy to understand for everyone. "Move back a few paces," gets to be a little more difficult. Especially if some people's idea of moving back is slowly turning with the keyboard and walking (not running) over. But that's part of the fun of this fight, you have to move together.
Tip #3: Lightning Nova doesn't have a huge range.
This tip made me raise an eyebrow and think for a minute. Lightning Nova really doesn't have a huge range. I'm used to running way the heck out of the nova just for safety's sake, but given that it really doesn't have a large range movement isn't too necessary in the extreme end. Just a little bit of it will do the trick. Well, maybe more than just a little bit, but you get the picture. You don't need to run to left field to get out of the blast.
Tip #4: "You don't need to run all the way back to Loken."
One of the secrets of good tanks is that it is often advantageous to allow the mob to come back to you after having to move. Of course this will necessitate that the DPS slow down or letup entirely as to not pass the tank in threat, but the potential benefits of doing this far outweigh the push in DPS. By allowing the mob to come to you you're essentially resetting the playing field, and in many aspects the encounter. The boss fight simply becomes a rinse-and-repeat exercise. This principle applies to many bosses, no matter if they're difficult 5-man ones like Loken or road blocks like the old Sunwell boss Felmyst. The principal is easy: "Okay, we've done this once we can do it four more times."
Tip #5: "Only spread out slightly."
While Lightning Nova is the worst of Loken's abilities you can't just ignore the others. Since you don't want Arc Lightning to stack up too much you want to be sure to stay spread out a little bit but not too much. You still want to move as a group when you have to, but don't spread out so far that the Paladin (or any other healer) can't hit you with their heals. Everyone staying within 20 to 25 yards of the healer is a good idea.
Tip #6: Loken is about movement and coordination, not about healing.
This is important to realize. If the fight was just about healing or DPS there'd be less movement required (we assume). But it's not. Much of the damage of the fight can be negated by proper movement and coordination of the group. Thus this point is perhaps the most important of them all in that many folks simply want to brute force the encounter. While brute forcing can generally work, especially if you out-gear the environment you're fighting in, it won't work in all situations. Blizzard has evolved their fights over the years and in such an evolution of encounters brute forcing becomes less and less of an option. Each fight requires some sort of gimmick or skill beyond just the typical tank-and-spank. In this case it's moving as a group.
It should be noted that it's relatively rare for a developer to comment on a specific strategy as Ghostcrawler has done. It's not uncommon for them to post about certain abilities in regards to specific kinds of fights, but an all out "here's one way I've seen this boss be killed" isn't something we're used to in WoW.
It could be that this boss is causing so much trouble for a specific class combination that the developers/Blizzard felt the need to comment. Or it could just be part of a discussion about why Paladins are still great healers. We should take caution at reading too much into why Ghostcrawler spoke out about Loken and not another P.I.T.A. mob like Malygos or 3-drake Sartharion.
Nonetheless it's fun to discuss some specific boss strategies for a relatively hard encounter, especially when the developers weigh in on the situation.
Even though these tips came out of a Holy Paladin thread on the official forums, it should be obvious that they can apply to anyone. Replace Bacon of Light with Chain Heal and you have yourself a good Restoration Shaman strategy. Or Circle of Healing, or whatever other AoE healing spell is your choice. Hell, go ahead and Holy Nova is you're uber enough.
The main point still stands – the encounter is not impossible for one class. It's very doable. And as such, it shouldn't really matter what classes you take to heal your group. You might need to adapt and change strategy a bit, but that's just part of the game.
Filed under: Paladin, Tips, Tricks, How-tos, Instances, Bosses
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
Will Dec 16th 2008 12:35PM
Gracebourne, you douche, going to Heroic HoL without me. Get off of WoW Insider and go back to work :P
Chrom Dec 16th 2008 11:50AM
Best strategy is if you have a DK. Anti magic bubble for the first blast, everyone will take about 4k damage, easily heal-able. Then burn him down. If your group has enough health, they can just stay in for the 2nd blast and finish him off. With adequate dps, you shouldn't really be getting more than 2-3 blasts anyway.
tehvoid Dec 16th 2008 11:52AM
No need of coordination, just get everyone on melee range and take Loken aoe damage. With his increased damage taken debuff at his minimum, everyone should take less than 8k damage, even less if you have a hunter with nature's aspect or a shamy with his nature resist totem. I remember I took from 1k to 4k damage as a frost DK tank.
The hard part of this strat is to convince the group to do it :/
With some groups it took several wipes before trying it and OS Loken and get the achievement for the less than 2 min kill... There's always someone not running away quick enough with the "coordination" strat
bbrasky Dec 16th 2008 11:52AM
What people who are saying things like "Why is Blizz posting the strat?" and "It's so easy for my group! You all must suck!" don't realize is that 1. It's a heroic 5-man...who cares? Not like this is the last encounter of the expansion, and 2. Not every group is identical to your group which has been successful.
Most people aren't to the point of "Overgeared" yet, many are infact undergeared and just wing it, and they must rely on a skilled group to pass through these encounters.
What we have here is a situation where there is statistical evidence that shows that this particular encounter is killing an awful lot of people. It doesn't matter whether *your* group is able to kill him. Many groups have been struggling with it.
As a paladin healer, I can safely say, that despite having killed him a number of times, this is still one of my least favorite fights. You really need to count on your group to be on top of things.
I for one think it's fantastic that Blizz took a look at what was going on and took the time to offer up some suggestions to those who are having trouble. If you think GC's post has crossed the line, then I believe you're probably taking the game a smidge too seriously ;)
Isalay Dec 16th 2008 11:59AM
No need to move at all on this fight if you have a good healer.
We always stack on the tank, and stay there throughout the fight.
The blast hits for 12-14k (on heroic), so of course your group will need to be geared well enough to not be one-shotted.
The healer (me in this case) just needs to keep everyone topped off and have a heal on the way so it hits right after the blast.
If you're with a group of new 80's, then yeah you'll probably want to work out all the movement, but if you're geared well, there's no need.
ver7 Dec 16th 2008 12:01PM
We don't even bother moving anymore. I'm a holy pally and as long as everyone has enough stam to survive the nova and 1-2 ticks of point-blank aura, its not as hard to heal through as people like to think.
Beacon the tank, throw him a holy shock right after the nova and top everyone off again before the next. The tank will be kept up by the raid-healing via beacon, and everyone's happy and alive. Sure it hurts, but honestly its really, really easy to pick up enough stam to just eat the nova. I know not everyone has the equipment to pull this off, but I don't pug HoL anyway.
tl;dr: if you're lazy or stupid, you can just outgear the nova
inb4: if you can outgear the nova you don't need heroics
Maolrubha Dec 16th 2008 12:05PM
Am I the only tank that finds the Anub'arak encounter (and Azjol Nerub generally) to be a helluva lot more of a pain in the ass than Loken?
Horixon Dec 16th 2008 12:31PM
Good point. I just spent so much time in HoL waiting for my defense trinket to drop. I've only tanked Anub a couple of times, whereas I've tanked Loken a couple dozen lol. But you are right, that fight can be annoying.
Stormsinger Dec 16th 2008 12:35PM
Yeah, AN seems to be my cursed heroic. All the others go more or less smoothly, but AN murders me every time.
In a strange way Loken reminds me of my experience in Steam Vaults. When we'd get to the last boss I'd explain "you need to swap all DPS to the water tank when he's channeling". And every time I'd see people beating on the boss while I (as the tank) am futilely trying to take down the water tank. No matter how much I emphasized "KILL THE WATER TANK!" people just would NEVER do it the first time. Loken is the same way. I can explain it till I'm blue in the face and I still end up running back from the wipe soon after. So the group would try again, and probably wipe one more time. Then something strange seems to happen and people "get" it. And the next try people get the quick kill achievement and we are watching the pretty light show.
Loken has become my favorite fight in heroics. In fact HoL heroic is the one I really enjoy the most. The tuning just feels right.
sharkeater75 Dec 16th 2008 12:07PM
first of all i'd like to save you heroic wipes.
you do not tank him where he stands without badass heals and great dps.
you'll fail.
period.
either you have geared people for heroic or you do the loken dance which is harder than the safety dance. ;)
there is no comparison in this fight between reg and heroic. and yes i've ran naxx. heroic and regular, and am damn close to clearing maylgos.
this fight without coordination non lag OR a great healer and dps sucking it up and burning it down is a motherfucker.
Shevaresh Dec 16th 2008 12:11PM
He's a pain in the ass, but killable.
He'd be really easy, except for my lag - I'm almost always at around 300ms, and that is (or was) long enough to always get caught by the blast (when added to mental lag). I finally set up a teleport circle at max range, used a VW pet (I'm not demo, so pet bonus is minimal) and popped Sacrifice at the first one, ate it, teleported the second time, ate the third one.
Paladin healer sat in my circle at max range, baconed himself and kept himself up via raid heals.
Slaytanic Dec 16th 2008 12:11PM
I love it. "This boss is so easy! All you have to do is...." and then continue to read 20 different variations of the same theme. Now, jump into a PuG, where EVERYONE knows the winning strategy, but do it different, refuse to budge, won't use game chat if they don't have someone in the group kicking down their vent (this is the biggest snob move of the game, imo). And then immediately try to figure out what everyone ELSE is doing wrong when they wipe. THIS is the beauty and horror of PuGs. THIS is what causes so many deaths. Remember, MOST players aren't even 80 yet. We're using stats from 11 million players.
At least they're giving a strategy and saying "good luck", rather than nerfing the boss like Muru.
Peace out. Slaytanic, healadin, flagged fo' life.
sharkeater75 Dec 16th 2008 12:14PM
lol bro. i've done muru and failed at him miserably till I server hopped, thats the difference between a guild an pugs.
as for the strats, its move in and out or heal through it and burn it down.
non heroic = faceroll though. so lets not even post strats for that.
if you have the heals and dps just stay in and burn him.
if you don't pray no one fails at movement or has lag.
Barnister Dec 16th 2008 12:19PM
Wutlol?! Hardest boss? You kiddin' right?!
From the 1st time, when my group and me wiped (we are a core 5 man group, who only very rarely run with outsiders) we were able to defeat Loken on every single occasion. If I remember correctly we killed Loken about 25 times now.
No, strike that, we wiped twice, when our healer lost his internet connection.
For me Loken is the easiest boss followed by Azjol-Nerub Boss Nubrak'something.
It's like GC says, it's all about movement not healing.
Horixon Dec 16th 2008 12:35PM
Weird, you mean you run with the same 4 people all the time, and your strategy works? Well since everyone here only runs with 4 people that they work well with, we should all have an easy time with this encounter from now on. I don't know what we were thinking.
Barnister Dec 16th 2008 12:44PM
we met as total strangers, we went to utgard keep, pinacle, azjol nerub, all heroics.
it went very well. After Loken, we decided we'd be a core group and from then on, if possible, we only run with each other to heroics. On weekends we clear about 4-5 Heroics in a 3-4 hour period.
its all about teamwork.
Barnister Dec 16th 2008 12:56PM
But you're right. With the majority being anti-social or tending towards anti-social behavior. It's no wonder most go with pugs who fail utterly.
This is just an observation.
Ferraro Dec 16th 2008 9:29PM
This is not a healing fight.
It's a team coordination fight.
If everyone does what they're supposed to do, honestly, very little "real" healing is involved.
One of the few 5-man fights in the game where everyone has to be on the same page and work together (how novel!), and it's quoted as being "the hardest" heroic boss. *rolls eyes and smiles*
Should tell you something.
Vegatork Dec 16th 2008 12:31PM
Helps to have a lock. Have the lock make healthstones for the group. Then all out dps at close range. If the DPS is good enough, not only will you get him after 1 or 2 Nova's, but you'll also get the achievement for killing Loken in less than 2 minutes like we did.
Vegatork Dec 16th 2008 12:32PM
This one is so easy if you have a lock in your group. Get a fresh set of healthstones and make sure you each have a runic healing pot. Stack and burn him with max dps and use your stone after the first nova and pot after the second. As long as your dps is strong enough, not only will you down him within 1 or 2 novas, but you'll get the Kill Loken in 2 Minutes achievement like we have.