It's not in the
3.0.8 patch notes, but apparently Paladins should expect
removal of all threat from
Judgement of Light in the next patch. This is being done to address the wonky nature of JoL threat -- since for fights in which large portions of the raid are taking damage it gives a huge threat boost via healing threat, while for fights in which only a few raid members are taking damage it only gives a small threat boost via healing threat. Or to put it concisely, as forum poster Tippocabra did, "
threat from Judgement of Light is not consistent." The new "no threat" JoL should be nothing if not consistent, though it has some tanking Paladins concerned about reduced threat. (For Retribution or Holy Paladins who have ever found themselves using JoL in a group situation, however, the threat decrease can only be a good thing.)
Ghostcrawler assures us, however, that this is not meant to nerf Protection Paladin threat -- and though he doesn't go into specifics, we have to assume that means the threat Protadins would previously receive from JoL will be coming from elsewhere.
Tags: 3.0.8, ghostcrawler, jol, judgement-of-light, light, paladin, paladin-tank, paladin-tanking, patch-3.0.8, tanking, threat, wow-patch-3.0.8
Filed under: Paladin, Patches, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Puck Dec 18th 2008 3:05PM
Seems like the perfect solution should be "causes no threat unless Righteous Fury is active", much like Ret's threat-reduction talent.
Heilig Dec 18th 2008 3:40PM
The problem was that it was causing insane amounts of raid healing and off-tanks that were using it were actually pulling threat on bosses. Passive healing like that never should have caused threat anyway, this is really just a bug fix.
infection Dec 18th 2008 4:12PM
I'm sorry, but your main tank needs to uninstall the game. Period.
There is no way that JoL is pulling off a main tank that isn't afk.
Please stop playing this game if you are tanking afk. That is "not intended".
Blizzard is dumbing down this game because of the dumb.
Of course... as a prot pally using JoW, I did pull aggro off our main tank warrior last night in Naxx with him having a 5 second lead. So maybe people in this game really are that bad and we really do need to dumb this down for the people that only spam sunder armor and taunt, or JoL and Holy Shield.
Hybrys Dec 18th 2008 4:22PM
You mean bad enough to not give the MT a lead? You sure YOU shouldn't be uninstalling there, big boy?
In high AoE fights, a prot pally was, at one point in time, able to do 7k TPS without HS in his/her rotation, purely because of JoL. So, unless you know warriors/druids that can top that, and keep it up...
Hybrys Dec 18th 2008 4:24PM
By without using HS, I mean not tanking... It's complicated, but, I'm sure you can grasp it.
Julio Biason Dec 18th 2008 3:11PM
For Prot paladins, there will be the new "taunt" ability, which causes holy damage (and you still have consecration.)
Tom Dec 18th 2008 4:32PM
As long as it's just the healing threat from the JoL debuff, I don't really care. If they make it so JoL zeroes the threat from judging Seal of Vengeance, it's a huge nerf and we've got problems.
Clbull Dec 18th 2008 3:16PM
I hope he only means threat from the heal-on-attack effect and not the whole spell itself.
If he means the latter then...
BOOOOO!!!
Deadly. Off. Topic. Dec 18th 2008 3:16PM
It's all part of their secret plan...
To the Ground!
Wait, that's never been a secret. Bleh.
I liked the extra threat caused by that judgement. It's rather stupid to get rid of it. All they need to do is fix that mechanics involved and have it work when righteous fury is turned on or add it to a talent in the prot tree. Considering that anyone who heals gets threat, that should also count for prot pallies too.
Michael Dec 18th 2008 5:35PM
Agreed, if they take the threat out of the heals from JOL then they need to do away with the threat spriest get from VE. Its only fair to spread the same treatment.
andyjay220 Dec 18th 2008 3:26PM
If you have threat issues as a tankadin without SoL you need to consider deleting WoW from your computer.
Threat is not an issue for "us." If it is an issue for "you," than "you" are the problem :)
Schadow Dec 18th 2008 3:42PM
Spoken like a true non-raider.
If you've ever had to hold second aggro as a pally tank, you'll know that you burn through your mana at a greater pace than Spiritual Attunement can keep up with. Judging light gives you means of generating aggro without having to resort to more mana-intensive abilities like Consecrate.
If you can keep up a full 96969 rotation as an OT over an extended fight, you're either stacking Int (lol), your mitigation sucks, or you've sold something to the devil.
Heilig Dec 18th 2008 3:44PM
I hopped into this thread to say exactly this.
Threat is a NON-issue for tankadins. If you can't hold threat against your DPS, you are doing it way wrong. I'm averaging 5500 TPS through an ENTIRE Naxx run, not just on boss fights. I can peak near 7K on Patchwerk.
None of the DPS can even come close to that sort of output, not by 3K TPS or more. The only exception is on crazy AoE trash pulls, which are always made up of weak, squishy mobs anyway, and Consecration is still enough to hold them if your DPS has just the tiniest bit of discipline to hold AoE for 3-4 seconds while you round them up.
infection Dec 18th 2008 4:19PM
Umm... schadow, you need to read up some more or try another class.
As off tank in Naxx 10 and 25 man, I have never lost aggro to mobs and I don't go OOM.
You are seriously a bad raider. Don't give messages telling someone to raid more....
I stole aggro from our warrior tank last night in 25 man OS on the first 4 man pull using JoW (due to our holy pally using JoL). Then got told to just focus on something else besides what he is tanking. Oh, and I never lost aggro on the other 3 mobs. Even though we have plenty of aoe hunter and mages.
I had 89% mana when the mobs were dead.
Learn your class more... type less.
People losing aggro to JoL (especially Holy Pallies) need to stop playing tank and focus on maybe a dps class...
Schadow Dec 18th 2008 6:14PM
@ infection
I am not talking about losing aggro or ooming when I have aggro. Obviously you are not understanding the point I am making.
And if you are pulling aggro from your MT on a 4-pull, why were you attacking his target in the first place?
/facepalm
Dann Dec 19th 2008 6:16PM
Schadow stop speaking, you are clearly just digging your own grave here.
As a full epic Champion of the Frozen Wastes you cant really tell me I need to raid more.
My 2 pennies: lack of threat has not been an issue since pre 3.0.
Judging wisdom + Divine Plea = No Mana issues.
In rare cases where I do run low on mana I just whack out Seal of Wisdom & no threat still is no issue. :O
I agree that if you are relying on Light for threat then you really need to rethink your rotation.
Eternauta Dec 18th 2008 3:30PM
I have mixed feelings about this change:
As a Protection Paladin, I'd use JoW almost exclusively, because being a mana-tank sucks when you're out of mana.
More mana conservation = more HotR/SoR spamming = more WIN.
The healer is responsible of keeping my green bar full, not me.
As a Retribution Paladin, I only use JoW, so I don't care.
As a Holy Paladin, I prefer to use JoW to keep my mana up at all times so I can keep the tank alive, but I'm sure some healadins would use JoL instead to boost their healing, and they surely will appreciate this change.
quote:Puck: "Seems like the perfect solution should be "causes no threat unless Righteous Fury is active", much like Ret's threat-reduction talent"
/agree 100%
Flameflash82 Dec 18th 2008 4:55PM
quote:Puck: "Seems like the perfect solution should be "causes no threat unless Righteous Fury is active", much like Ret's threat-reduction talent"
Seconded!
I'm leveling a ret but plan to tank a bit too with dual spec. Not very high level on this alt but I've never seen a pally that can't keep threat, hence why I'm interested in trying it out.
d503 Dec 18th 2008 4:24PM
@Schadow
I think you're the disillusioned one here. For one, I never have mana issues offtanking, as I simply use Seal of Wisdom, and if anything, it keeps me from pulling aggro off of the main tank on fights like Patchwerk, that require "meaningful" threat.
Even if you didn't want to use SoW full time, you should treat it like hunters treat Aspect of the Viper...Use Vengeance/Corruption until your mana bar is at 10%, then fill up again with some SoW procs...it works even better if you have the minor glyph that cuts the cost of the Seal in half.
We don't have threat issues and we don't have mana issues...we're fine...we don't need JoL...
Of course, I'm biased, because I'm Tippocabra (though I did get a sex change and changed back to my original name of Tippo) from Medivh...so I cause this ruckus :P
Schadow Dec 18th 2008 6:21PM
@d503
I'll take your word for it - maybe it's a gear thing for me. Seal-swapping may be the answer until I gear up a bit. Thanks for the constructive comment.