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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPoll: Should 40-mans make a come back?
by Amanda Dean 
Dec 23rd 2008 at 8:30AM
Peeking around the official forums, I saw a few threads dedicated to the reincarnation of 40-man raids. Do you remember the old, pre-BC epic AQ-40/MC/Naxx days? I can honestly say I really do not. I was a freshly minted 60 when BC came out. I got my feet wet in ZG and AQ-20, but that's it. Perhaps I'm missing out on something important. It's entirely possible that others feel the same way.Since Blizzard has tuned Wrath raids to both 10 and 25 person versions, what's stopping them from rounding it out to a full 40. Perhaps they could even go for more. Many are already complaining that Naxx is too easy. They're looking for a real challenge. I don't know if Blizzard is open to the possibility of tuning up the dungeons, but we've seen evidence that the developers do listen to player feedback.
Would you want to go toe-to-toe with Arthus along side 39 of your best friends? Tell us what you think:
| I don't care, raiding isn't my thing. | |
|---|---|
| No, 25-mans are big enough. | |
| Heck yeah! Bring back the 40s. | |
| Come on, Blizz, give us 50-man raids. | |
| Yarp! Do I hear 100? | |
| I might give big raids a go, but I wouldn't make them a habit. |
Filed under: Polls, Fan stuff, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 8)
Amaxe Dec 23rd 2008 1:40PM
That would be impossible to coordinate I would think. I am sure both raid groups would feel no obligation to the other side... especially if cross faction
Deathrèaper Dec 23rd 2008 10:40AM
when i started WoW i didnt know anything about it
i just quested alone,
didnt even know what IF was
i didnt kow there were guilds,raids,battlegrounds
but by the time BC came out i was um 40 something
so i still didnt start raiding until like right before WoTLK
cartman Dec 23rd 2008 1:37PM
HATED 40 man. Remember the LAG and the 35 or so people not showing? Oh and drops, if there was a drop I couldn't use I went and made dinner while the time passed. Lots of stupid systems came up to divide the loot, yeah 40 man were nothing but fun! lol My favorite memory thought is watching my fellow raiders stand in one spot and spin, the 40 man dance we called it.
cart
Kenney Dec 23rd 2008 10:45AM
40-mans weren't harder, they were designed so you could carry more dead weight. The only thing harder about 40 mans was that you had to find 40 bodies to do a run.
Tenchan Dec 23rd 2008 10:45AM
Epic is not a number.
I've done 40-mans and I would lie if I said they weren't fun. But the same goes for 25, 10 or 5-mans.
Getting them going though, those 40-man... that was not fun. I never got to raid AQ-40, the one place I wanted to see the most in my whole WoW time. Guess why. (Hint: It's not the letters.)
Brightbeerd Dec 23rd 2008 10:51AM
Ewww, 40 mans. I personally play on a laptop which, sadly, only has about 512 MB of RAM (Hopefully getting more for Christmas). Anyway, I lag hard in 25 mans, so with 40s, healing would be impossible. Also, I've tried 40 mans to raid Org and such, and there was constantly someone in the bathroom, or walking the dog, or just not responding to ready checks.
Tl;dr version: 40 mans existed before blizzard had interesting fights; They're gone for a reason.
Suzett Dec 23rd 2008 10:48AM
I remember 40 mans. It was mind-numbing hours of raiding for only a couple of epics that always went to the top elites of the guild. VERY few people ever saw end-game content and actually enjoyed it. Those of us on the bottom of the totem pole were mostly left with frustration, fetigue, and a very large repair bill. NO THANKS!
Altairix Dec 23rd 2008 10:50AM
Going from 10 to 25 man you get a sense of "Wow, these bosses are pretty tough, we just got by with enough people alive" But when you have 40 people, it's just so epic, especially if at the very end you're down to just one person who killed the boss and saved the day. TBC and WLK raiders won't get to experience anything just quite like that.
I say, why not have valorous mode? eh? 10-25-40 man raid all in one, everyone's happy!
Rylka Dec 23rd 2008 10:53AM
I love my guild. It's a very small, close-knit, friends-and-family guild with near zero drama and a great atmosphere of helping each other while having a good time. We barely have 10 active members so raiding, even the 10-person raids, isn't on the schedule much at this point. Several of our members keep active alts on our old slightly larger "parent" guild which is more interested in raiding. Our cross-guild members get to experience more heroics and 10-person raids that way, while we get to stay connected and casual.
25-person raids seem like a far distant insubstantial idea. I like the intimacy of our small guild so much that I can see it taking a LONG time before we regularly have 25 people on at a time. We very much have an enroll-the-player-not-the-missing-raid-slot kind of recruitment program.
If the game designers ever included 40-person raids, I would hope that it would be to give those in large guilds that enjoy high end raiding a great optional experience/challenge, as opposed to creating something central to the game lore or that served as a source of ultra-uber gear that those like us would feel left out of.
I like the directions and balances that the WOW developers are working toward. Hopefully we can look forward to more of the same as time goes on.
Vinna Dec 23rd 2008 10:55AM
I sometimes miss the days of 40 mans, with that large of a group it always felt like a party. But I can't imagine the logistics of having to actually run one. Nice thing about those days was you showed up at invite time and you pretty much always had a spot.
We'd start MC or ONY with 25 people, but always had room for more if more people showed up.
But there were alot of downsides too, people could really do nothing and get loot. We used to call it 'circle duty' when you just run around in circles during the fight. You could straggle in late and win loot. As it is now, if you're late, all the spots will probably be filled. Also with 40 people wanting to roll on that loot, well... lets just say MUCH more potential for drama.
Wintersdark Dec 23rd 2008 11:01AM
As an old classic raider; no thanks. I do want more difficult and challenging raids, but requiring more people does not make an instance harder. It's just a logistical nightmare.
No, the current 10/25 man scheme works extremely well making content accessible to guilds large and small with much less logistical pain.
I do really, really hope the re-release Molten Core, Blackwing Lair and the two AQ's as 10/25 raids, as they did for Naxx. It's a whole lot of already-made raid content that a great many players have not yet experienced.
Dillon Dec 23rd 2008 11:11AM
Worst idea ever.
Probably the one single thing that would convince me to quit without a second thought.
Eric Dec 23rd 2008 11:12AM
Still can't believe a Demon told me to come back with 24 of my best friends... why did you have to remind me of that massive fail fest for bad writing.
Lupo Dec 23rd 2008 11:31AM
I would love to see the Last, biggest, hardest Raid for Wrath made a 20/40-man Raid. This would keep all other raids at 10/25-man Raids. It’s only the hard core that can pull off the last Raid. So many people have talked about how easy Wrath is. Well I am a Casual player and like this new laid back style but I would like to see at least one thing given to the Hard core Raiding guilds out there.
Bunkai Dec 23rd 2008 11:22AM
I just want to see the old-school "vanilla" WoW instances retooled for higher level groups. I'd like to see every instance have a "heroic" option that tunes the mobs up by about 10 to 15 player levels. Example: MC would be tuned for level 70s, BWL for level 75s, AQ40 for level 75s, etc.
I'd even be all for tuning up lowbie dungeons like WC and Deadmines to be runnable for level 30s or 40s.
Give all the dungeons some serious replay value, that's my opinion.
hold up Dec 23rd 2008 11:27AM
It would be kind of epic to be standing in front of The Lich King with 10 Billion HP. o.O
But I don't see 40 mans coming back. Too hard to organize and a lot of times not enough skilled players.
And to re-touch on Naxx being too easy. Initiallly I felt that it was very easy because my guild was able to clear with only a handful of wipes the first night. Since then we've moved up and no longer do Naxx-10 so we have to pug it.
I joined a pug and it was the most painful raiding experience I've ever had. It took the group 3 days of raiding 3 hours a day. I don't normally do 9 hour pugs, but I stuck with it because I was helping a friend get gear, but that proves that not everyone thinks its ez-mode. And it wasn't just that group. There are always groups advertising in Trade about how they need 1M (class) for a naxx that is partially cleared.
For the seasoned raider, this content is laughable. For everyone else, its right where it should be.
The E Dec 23rd 2008 11:30AM
If you did 40 man raids during Classic, then you would not be asking for them to come back. These forums posts are made up by the new recruits in TBC or WotLK who think 40 man raids are great. Trust me, if you think drama is bad for 25 people, trust me it doesn't even take the cake.
Nith Dec 23rd 2008 11:31AM
I started playing WoW less than a year ago and so I did not get to run anything besides kara. I am in a small guild of friends irl and we concentrate on building up skill and getting everyone to the same point. So even 25 man raids are out of reach for us atm. But why should I get penilized for not having enough ppl. So 40 man raids are even worse. What blizz needs to do is come up with more challenging and complex encounters. So that even 10 man raids become difficult for ppl without the right gear and who are not skilled enough. In wrath there is only a few encounters that really require skill and the only thing that poses a challenge is the special achievements (and only some) from heroics.
So instead of making 40 man raids we need more challenging content. Why should blizzard scale, balance, and test 40 man versions of a raid when the 10 and 25 mans are easy as all hell when only 10% of the player base can even reach it. If you have hard encounters than any 10 ppl can have a go at it and only the really skilled ones will finish them.
Mike C. Dec 23rd 2008 12:17PM
People remembering the days of 40-man raids are like your grandfather talking about his childhood. Sure, he had to walk uphill to school, in the snow, with no shoes both ways, but he didn't do it because it was fun. He did it because he had to. It's only while looking through the lens of nostalgia that those aspects of his youth seem enjoyable.
In the same manner, it is only looking back through two years of not having them that makes 40-man raid dungeons seem appealing. They were what we had, so that's what we ran. Other content could be raided, but it was not separately tuned for raid versus non-raid groups.
Blizzard has said that they do not plan to make 40-man dungeons again due to design issues. It is easier for them to design around a smaller 10- or 20-man group than a 40-man group.
I am glad the days of the 40-man raid are behind us. I hope they stay there.
Jamison Banks Dec 23rd 2008 11:40AM
I think the spike in bandwidth costs ALONE has a lot to do with not bringing back 40 man's. Yes Blizzard's servers can handle it, but think of the costs of doing it across all servers.
Anyone remember the For Ezra Tauren stampede?
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/11/08/bigredkitty-an-open-apology-to-everybody/
Think about it:
897 Lvl 1 taurens
55 Lvl 70's
Per Big Red Kitty, the GM's told them to disband the raid NOW or face 'dire consequences'.
'GMs started whispering people in our newly-formed guild, telling us of dire consequences if our actions didn't stop. . .
. . .So we ended it, as soon as we were told to end it. But it wasn't soon enough, Argent Dawn was locked to new character creation, and then, we think, rebooted.
The authenticator server going off-line? Was that a result of our raid? No idea, but let's just assume it was.
We did it. We apologize.'
If a 900 man raid can do that, what do you think the bandwidth cost was? I bet the meter reader went to light speed.
Each player reports it's statistics and position of every other player within range to the server, in live time. You get 1000 people doing that, guess what 40 mans across all the servers would do?
Yeah. Player's don't demand it, no biggie.