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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPoll: Should 40-mans make a come back?
by Amanda Dean 
Dec 23rd 2008 at 8:30AM
Peeking around the official forums, I saw a few threads dedicated to the reincarnation of 40-man raids. Do you remember the old, pre-BC epic AQ-40/MC/Naxx days? I can honestly say I really do not. I was a freshly minted 60 when BC came out. I got my feet wet in ZG and AQ-20, but that's it. Perhaps I'm missing out on something important. It's entirely possible that others feel the same way.Since Blizzard has tuned Wrath raids to both 10 and 25 person versions, what's stopping them from rounding it out to a full 40. Perhaps they could even go for more. Many are already complaining that Naxx is too easy. They're looking for a real challenge. I don't know if Blizzard is open to the possibility of tuning up the dungeons, but we've seen evidence that the developers do listen to player feedback.
Would you want to go toe-to-toe with Arthus along side 39 of your best friends? Tell us what you think:
| I don't care, raiding isn't my thing. | |
|---|---|
| No, 25-mans are big enough. | |
| Heck yeah! Bring back the 40s. | |
| Come on, Blizz, give us 50-man raids. | |
| Yarp! Do I hear 100? | |
| I might give big raids a go, but I wouldn't make them a habit. |
Filed under: Polls, Fan stuff, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 7 of 8)
David Dec 23rd 2008 12:56PM
No, no, no, and I might also add, no. Bad idea.
I only say this as someone who's struggling with frame rate issues in 25-mans as it is. :(
mordecai Dec 23rd 2008 1:05PM
if there were to have 40 man raids again i think it should be added to the alrdy 10,25 man raids. i feel that haveing a ton of 10 and 25 man raids is a great idea however i would LOVE too see 40 mans, also i feel that they would need to make it worth the time.
like a 40 man raid boss drops a lot more items, maybe one or two items per class and on top of that ter gear and other epic gear/ badge's.
the only prob iv ever had with a 40 man raid was yes getting every one going at the same time but more so all these ppl here to only gear a few really wasn't worth it.
Spidder Dec 23rd 2008 1:15PM
No one in their right mind would want 40-mans back.
The only people who do are the ones who did 40-mans back in the day and were slowly driven insane by doing so.
Quiz Dec 23rd 2008 2:41PM
Seeing as how the 10 man raids are significantly harder than the 25 man raids, I can only imagine the 40 man raids would be free epics for all this holiday season.
Nelton Dec 23rd 2008 1:27PM
I'd like to see 40 mans come back so I could watch it on YouTube, but I want it to have the same loot as 25 mans, maybe one or two extra badges only. That way the hardcore people can get their fix, and the not as hardcore but still kinda hardcore people can be on the same level.
David Dec 23rd 2008 1:33PM
40-man raiding was some of the best time i had in my life.
I was blessed having a guild that wasn't full of idiots, so we did quite well and it was a bigger jobb coordinating things but it worked out better as well.
Raids weren't quite as dependant on single people, encounters could be designed to be more complex and so on.
Yes the entry level content could easily be done with 30 people, but some of the later and harder content was near impossible if you had "~10 people AFK at all times"
imo the team feeling was better as well ^^
RetPallyJil Dec 23rd 2008 1:38PM
It should be an option for NaXX. It would be fun :)
Elyx Dec 23rd 2008 1:41PM
Ya, Hindsight is 20/20 here folks. I remember my nostalgia for Deadmines ( I remember when peeps still used to correct LFg'ers on it...its VC!). No one cares anymore, of course, cause most of us have guildees run us through :P
I have leveled enough toons to have run VC quite a few times. When i first ran it, it was exciting. the random (so I thought at the time) pat's, the difficulty with pulls, and VanCleef was seriously intimidating! I was running my first toon (priest) at the time, and was pretty proud of my ability to keep the group alive. It was all new, and challenging. The folks i ran with at the time wer emostly new (tank was experienced, he led, and was decent and showed us stuff). I just felt lucky enough to be in a group! and ooooooh....a blue! wore that thing for ages...
When i went back again, i was looking forward to reliving the nostaliga. Guess what? it wasn't there. a bunch of alts from ego peens who thought since they knew the run they didn't need to actually work it, multiple wipes with peeps blaming everyone else...and When i saw VC, first thing i thought was, "i just took this guy down in 2 shots with my 70 rogue the other day". So..... nostaglia out the window.
i think the biggest issue with bringing back the old instances is having to redesign them to meet the standards of the new playing status and approach to instances/raids. Old kingdom stuff was made tougher with adding a few 'get out of the fire' situations, and vamping up mobs and bosses health and damage. Thats about it. I even think a blue had commented on this. Puttign the amount of effort that would be needed to get those up to par with the new content would take away from adding new content to the game. I know we can say, "Just vamp up the mobs and up the level" but seriously, after dealing with the raid challenges in BC and the new stuff in wrath, do you really think you can go back to grinding out lvl 80 elite miners from VC? i guarantee you peeps will start to complain that its "just like it was at 20, just tougher" :P no thanks. though they do make cool sounds when they die...
And if its a choice, give me new content. I can run old content, heck even run it with a few 70's or 80's so i can enjoy the scenery and plot abit more then having to have an RL scream in my ear to get in position. I like the old instances, and so far AQ was my favorite one for plot and theme. But ya know what? its not gone, its stil there, and with a few 80's (obviously more then 2 or so for AQ), you don't have to try to get 40 peeps together for it.
And i believe blizz has changed their approach to achievements like AQ40 and pre-wrath naxx. They created "achievements" lol. I think this is really where they're going to go with harder content. add some twists to a 10 or 25 man, and make it really challenging, and give specific achevements for it. Heck, even the idea of raid 'tournaments' could be fun with this.
And for conditional achievements, they still do that kind of stuff. I still have my pallys lvl 70 scourge event gear set, and the trinkets are a blast (the summoned pally may not last long, but hes fun to summon in a raid). Plus achievements are things that prove it was done. Tired of asking ego arm flexers in forums to 'show us the screen shot"? just hop over to armory and check out the accomplishements. no accomplishement, no flex! I personally like it. Some of the accomplishments are more personal (like the '100 quests' achievement...not a guild shaking announcement there), but many are worth shouting about in guild chat. And those stick with you, unlike all the t2 and t3 gear you eventually had to delete to make room for BC epics (and similar process for wrath epics).
On note of 40 man...I checked the 'id try it' box, simply because my toons were all pre-60 when wrath came out (had a few in teh 50's prob could've had one 60, but my guidl wasn't raiding at that point), and it would be interesting to try. But no thanks for a regular situation. 25 mans are a pain enough as it is to get peeps set up for, and i prefer 10 mans anyways, for the same reasons people mentioned above. more personal. When i do a 10 man, I usually know the folks in the run. If we have a new peep, or inexperienced one, in a 10 man i actually have time to give them tips and work with them (yes, i am one of 'those types.. i actually like to see other people grow and enjoy themselves).
In 25 mans its often a big soup sandwich, and you sort the details out afterwords. 40's are probably even worse. When folks experienced in 40 mans talk about having 10 floaters, it drives me crazy. i cant stand the 2-3 floaters who get into 25 mans...i agree with spicer, 10-15 should be max.
hmm...what about this? timed events with winged instances where you need to have multiple teams enter the wings at the same times and finish within a small time frame of one another? stuff like that would be a blast, and you could still run a single wing if the peeps didn't show. you get an accomplishement and 10 extra badges, or something like that. Or like the above poster said with fighting dead teammates brought to life. To me that kind of stuff is FAR more impressive skill wise. organizing 40 peep isn't skill...its organization and babysitting (I think folks who have had to do this would agree). Make the runs more involved and interesting, not just bigger tank-n-spanks.
BTW, when i did AQ with my guildmates, it felt epic. it was not just the organization(though that had a 'feel' to it in itself), it was the design. You really felt like you were fighting gods of the old worlds. they can design that into new instances as well. That feeling is part of what made AQ great. with VC it was all about newness...i dare ya, hop in there now, its pretty much a bunch of tunnels with silly miners in it (feel sad for them sometimes now). It's not new anymore, and all the buffing in the world won't change that. Besides, if you really want to experience it, have a group of guildees level up toons with you to 20 ( an easy night or two for that now), and go through it again. there you go. Happy Happy joy joy.
Joe Dec 23rd 2008 1:50PM
What I would like to see is them bringing back AQ for the level 80 players. AG was not out for very long before BC came out and not many people got to enjoy it. I would even like to do the whole even over again with getting the supplies and opening the gate. I have even suggested making the gate opening a seasonal event. So many people got left with the Scepter of the Shifting Sands and no way to turn it in. I say bring it back as a 10 / 25 man raid.
Khalis Dec 23rd 2008 1:52PM
The thought of Arthas being taken down by 10 people makes me want to puke. Some fights should have an epic feel. A properly tuned 40 man version would be epic. Just pull two 25 man raids together to make it happen. I raid 25s in a group of a few 10 man raids, and only half of us are still in the same giuld, so what's the problem?
Jaimie Dec 24th 2008 5:39AM
More =/= better.
The epic feel doesn't come from the number of players present, but from how well the encounter is designed.
JDM Dec 23rd 2008 1:52PM
FTA: "Many are already complaining that Naxx is too easy. They're looking for a real challenge."
Here we go again. Blizzard has said many times that Naxx is -supposed- to be easy, it's the entry-level raid. There will be more challenging raids to come - don't worry!
I seem to recall everyone complaining that Kara was too easy, don't you?
I'm confident that everyone will have a harder time clearing the future raid content, but until they come out, there's really no way to know exactly how challenging they will be.
Gnarlynarz Dec 23rd 2008 2:23PM
IMO keeps the 40 mans out, if anything its just as difficult to get a 25 man to push out the amount of dps you need to down some bosses, if you want more difficulty, just have the new content patches be more difficult.
With raid wide buffs, 40 mans would just be overpowered.
Imagine having every shaman totem up, buffing everyone.
Each different preist, warrior, and pally spec, buffing everyone with replenishment mana and health totems. The difficulty would have to be so ridiculously extreme to make those sort of buffs make it seem less "easy mode".
Its all about perspective.
Making water for an entire raid, suckeddddddd.
And the 10 minute pally buffs on EVERYONE.
The game is easier, yes, but fun? Even more so.
leave the chaos that is 40 mans outta my game please.
LetoAtreides82 Dec 23rd 2008 2:55PM
I only "experienced" a 40-man raid once, it was the definition of "fail". Someone pm'd me asking me if I'd like to come help with their MC raid, I said sure but I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I go up there and notice that I'm not attuned to MC, I say "wtf is an attunement", and they explain to me that I can't go in until I attune with MC.
A few others weren't attuned either so they put us into a group and we got attuned. Finally after getting killed by alliance multiple times through this "fun" process of attunement we can finally enter the MC portal.
The cave appeared dark red, and inside this big cave room there was more players than I had ever seeen at one place at that point in time. Someone handed me potions for fire resistance, I didn't even know such things existed so I put them in my bag and forgot about it.
The leader of the raid then started giving us instructions, and then we finally started after what seemed like an eternity. To my amazement all 40 of us died on the very first mob. I heard some expletives but we decided to give it another try.
They found out that some of us weren't using the fire potions, so I used it this time. The leader of the raid shouts orders and here we go for try #2. This time we managed to kill the first mob but were destroyed by the second mob. I have never before heard and seen so many expletives at one time.
Needless to say the raid was over and that was the last time I ever attemped MC and I don't miss it one bit.
Rational Dec 23rd 2008 3:28PM
"40 mans were a failure", "They were hard to organize", "only the top guilds ran them."
All true statements. I was on Doomhammer. Only a very few guilds ever got past MC. Sure, MC and Onyxia and the other entry level content was mostly on farm status, but only a tiny fraction of the general population ever made it farther than that.
I can't count the times we would have to start with 35 people because of the flakes who would show up late or not at all.
40 mans pretty much sucked. There was no skill involved, only a giant mob of idiots and maybe 10 people who actually knew what they were doing. Not even 25 competent players, that's being way too generous. They took forever to set up and get going, and they weren't fun for the people who organized them and they weren't fun for the people who were in them.
Antonia Dec 23rd 2008 6:14PM
The answer is easy: No
PimpyMicPimp Dec 23rd 2008 6:44PM
Nope. Sure, your first time stepping into a 40 man was epic and a great memory to have, but, honestly, they were horrible. You didn't need more than half the people there to be on their game, loot was a nightmare, and it really become a massive headache eventually.
25 mans are far, far better.
Zarfay Dec 23rd 2008 8:09PM
Who is this Arthus that you speak of?
Riley Dec 23rd 2008 8:09PM
i was only in the 20's or so when tbc came out, so i never got to run a 40 man, but i've always wanted to
i was talking to someone else about this a few weeks ago, and we thought it'd be cool if they made heroic versions of all of the old 40-man's tuned for level 80 (actually, it might have been for 70 at the time)
wyldstyle Dec 24th 2008 11:09AM
40-mans hell yeah!! bring it back! half the people here whine about 10/25 mans havent even been playing for a year. pre-bc was hardcore fun. an yes it was hard. most guilds only seen MC or abit of BWL. hence why we get to have NAXX now. being a class leader back in the day i really didnt have a problem filling are spots. we have like 50 people online now. we could easly run a 40-man. SO YES BLIZZ bring it back an let the others cry!!