BigRedKitty: Armor penetration stinks
Daniel Howell contributes BigRedKitty, a column with strategies, tips and tricks for and about the Hunter class, sprinkled with a healthy dose of completely improper, sometimes libelous, personal commentary."Dude, I've got two almost identical pieces of chest-armor, one has more Crit and one has more Armor Penetration. Which of these should I equip: the Gilded Ringmail Hauberk or the Razorstrike Breastplate?"
"Dude, you need the Armor Pen! Grab the Hauberk, the Armor Pen-chest!"
"Seriously, you think Arm Pen is good?'
"Dude! It's so sweet! It reduces the enemy's armor so it totally ramps-up your DPS!"
"Sweet! I'm totally down with the Hauberk."
/vendor Breastplate
This is what it sounds like, when Hunters cry.
An enemy's armor protects him from physical damage. If we can reduce that armor, our physical attacks will inflict more damage. Any problems with that? Sounds pretty simple, yes?
Blizz permits us two mathematical ways to reduce an enemy's armor: we can reduce a flat amount or a percentage.
Warriors use Sunder Armor to reduce a flat amount of armor. If a warrior is able to stack five Sunder Armors, he will reduce the enemy's armor by 3925; a flat amount. If the enemy has 4000 armor before the attack, he'll only have 75 armor to reduce incoming physical damage. Nice.
Hunter use Armor Penetration to reduce a percentage of armor. At level 80, a hunter requires an Armor Penetration rating of 15.38 to reduce an enemy's armor by 1%. If a hunter has an Armor Penetration rating of 154, and he attacks a different enemy that also has 4000 armor, the hunter will reduce the armor by 10% -- 400 -- and leave the enemy 3600 armor to reduce incoming physical damage.
Warrior have it easy; nerf warriors, right? Don't worry, we're going to dislike them even more later.
But let's pretend our enemy has a lot more armor, like 13,000. Now a warrior still reduces that by 3925, leaving 9075. Our hunter faces a different mob whose health armor is also 13,000, so the hunter reduces it by 10% -- 1300 -- leaving 11700.
Notice that previously we said the warrior and hunter were attacking two separate enemies. Well that's not how we raid, is it? The warrior and the hunter are usually attacking the same mob. And this is where a hunter's armor penetration takes it in the keister.
Armor Penetration is calculated using the mob's acting-armor, not his base-armor. Sunder Armor is calculated upon the mob's base-armor, not his acting-armor. What this basically means is that Sunder Armor is calculated first.
Observe.
We grab our mob with 13,000 armor. We know that the warrior's Sunder Armor reduces it by 3925, leaving 9075.
When the hunter attacked his own 13,000-armor mob, the 10% armor penetration reduced the armor by 1300. But when the hunter attacks the mob that the warrior is attacking, the armor penetration is calculated on the post-Sunder Armor value of 9075. Our Armor Penetration is going to reduce that value by 10% -- 907 -- leaving the mob with 8168 armor.
Well that's not bad, but it's certainly not what we wanted. We wanted 3925 from the warrior and 1300 from the hunter. But since Armor Penetration is calculated on the mob's acting-armor, we only reduced the armor by 907, not 1300. Our Armor Penetration rating, which we worked so hard to raise, has had its value reduced from 10% to just 6.98%, (907 / 13000 = 0.06979 or 6.98%).
6.98% instead of 10%? That's more than a 30% decrease in value from our armor penetration gear! And that, frankly, stinks. Even worse, there is another component to this debacle, and that has to do with the squishiness of the enemy. Observe, again.
For a mob with 13,000 armor, our 10% Armor Penetration was reduced to 6.98%. But what if we're fighting a mob with just 6000 armor?
The warrior still reduces that by 3925, leaving 2075. Now the hunter's Armor Penetration is applied, where 10% of 2075 is 207, reducing the enemy's armor to 1868. But reducing 6000 armor by only 207 is a reduction of only 3.45%!! (207 / 6000 = 0.0345 or 3.45%) Geebuz, that's a positively massive decrease from the 10% armor reduction we see on our tooltip.
The bigger the warrior's Sunder Armor, the less effective our Armor Penetration is. The squishier the enemy -- i.e. the less armor he has -- the less armor-reduction-efficiency our Armor Penetration returns. Basically, the more Armor Penetration rating we hunters stack, the less value we get for our efforts. Stinkin' warriors...
So now we return to our choice of armor: the Armor Pen chest or the Crit chest.
Crit is Crit, right? There's nothing anybody in our raid can do can decrease how effective our Crit is. When a hunter crits, he does more damage and generates Focus for his pet, thanks to Go For The Throat. Crit rocks and that's all there is to it. Crit-damage, pet-damage, it's all yummy. Unlike if we chose Armor Pen:
- Armor Pen can, and will, have its effectiveness immediately nerfed due to the warrior in the party throwing Sunder Armor
- The squishier the mob, the less effective our Armor Penetration will be
- Because we chose the Armor Pen-chest, we reduced our Crit by the amount we would've had, had we chosen the Crit-chest
Armor Penetration is not a bad stat, it's just the least-effective one we hunters have when we factor our party members interfering with our Armor Pen's efficiency. Adding Armor Penetration rating isn't a terrible thing, just remember to never sacrifice Agility or Ranged Attack Power or Crit to take Armor Pen.
And now you know why you should always look at your warriors with a crooked glance; they're in ur party, stealin' ur stats...
/shifty eyes
Filed under: Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, (Hunter) Big Red Kitty






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Figworth Dec 27th 2008 2:13PM
Hmmm. That clears up some stuff about Armor Pen. that we were confused about.
minimagicman Dec 27th 2008 3:17PM
I do have a question about this topic. How much armor does the average raid boss have?
I understand that warriors and other debuffs (druids have one as well) will reduce the effectiveness but if a raid boss has like 50,000 armor then who know?
Deathgodryuk Dec 27th 2008 3:39PM
I'm pretty sure that most raid bosses have just above 13,000 armor.
Also, as I understand it Armor Pen as it is right now is pretty much useless for everyone, not just Hunters.
Kakistocracy Dec 28th 2008 12:47AM
that's true, it's pretty awful for mages too.
Jin Dec 27th 2008 2:13PM
Bad warrior! Bad! No cookie for you.
joerendous Dec 27th 2008 2:20PM
lol i was waiting for the reason for the TAFKAP pic
Grubba Dec 27th 2008 4:14PM
FYI, he's Prince again. He hasn't been TAFKAP for a long time. :-)
Kakistocracy Dec 28th 2008 12:49AM
Making him currently TAFKATAFKAP.
patches Dec 27th 2008 2:26PM
Thanks to Elune someone finally cleared up the ArPen situation.
It seems that on the forums people love to say it's bad but never actually explain why it's bad.
I'm guessing given the argument, haste (for MM and SV) is also more desirable than ArPen?
Rilgon Jan 12th 2009 7:18PM
I don't really pursue either. Haste is slightly better than ArPen, but that's like saying the common cold is slightly better than the flu.
Fandon Dec 27th 2008 2:26PM
ok so let me get this straight? prot warriors the only ones ever using sunder armor who's dps goes up a tiny bit because sunder armor is stacked (devastate) and that it is reducing armor and are always last on the dps charts who are keeping you from dying and also increasing your dps should be nerfed? ok good luck tanking patchwerk with your pet!
Shardrell Dec 27th 2008 2:31PM
Man, chill. He isn't calling for warrior nerfs. He's just joking around while explaning why armour pen kinda sucks.
Londelen Dec 27th 2008 5:40PM
you DON'T joke about warrior nerfs.
matrix_dragon Dec 27th 2008 11:24PM
Nice!
I have good luck with our Paladin, Death Knight and Druid Tanks.
GTFO Warriors LOL.
Honestly don't over react to BRK's comments.
Tenchan Dec 28th 2008 4:46AM
Have yourself a bag of reading comprehension.
Sinnara Dec 29th 2008 3:07PM
It's also worth noting that a tank keeping Sunder Armor stacked isn't doing it for himself, that armor is penetrated for the whole group.
Paul Feb 17th 2009 2:11PM
well and obviously the other alternative, ie: the warrior NOT using sunder armor, is a worthless outcome... you can have the 13k reduced to 9k reduced to 8k or so.... or you can get your full armor pen off a non-sundered 13k to make it 11.7k....... yea, damn those warriors
speaking from a mainly dk, hunter backup.... i hate armor pen, and haste for that matter
Shardrell Dec 27th 2008 2:29PM
Thanks, this is useful to me as a rogue as well. I wish they'd stop itemizing so many things with things like armour pen and haste, and mostly stick to hit and crit. You know, the stuff we actually want.
Eddy Dec 27th 2008 2:43PM
Agreed. I hate how hard it is to fill out your desired stats because so much of the gear is laden down with this stuff that still doesn't perform as well or as effectively as the more core stats. AP, Agi, hit, and crit, please.
hpavc Dec 27th 2008 2:53PM
Rogues aren't entirely in the same boat, since they don't lack for crit chance usually when geared.