Ask a Lore Nerd: All about dragons

Welcome to Ask a Lore Nerd, where each week blogger and columnist Alex Ziebart answers your questions about the lore and history of the World of Warcraft. Ask your questions in the comments section below, and we'll try to answer it in a future edition.
The last Ask a Lore Nerd brought a whole load of Dragon-related questions, likely a result of the huge amounts of Dragon lore we've been given in Wrath of the Lich King. So today, we're going purely Dragon themed, and I'll be hitting a few of the bigger questions. Let's get started!
The last Ask a Lore Nerd brought a whole load of Dragon-related questions, likely a result of the huge amounts of Dragon lore we've been given in Wrath of the Lich King. So today, we're going purely Dragon themed, and I'll be hitting a few of the bigger questions. Let's get started!
Who are all these humanoids aiding the blue dragonflight? I did the quest where you find out one of them was a Troll forced to work for them under the threat of harm for his family, and I assume some of them are blue dragons taking human form becuase sometimes blowing up the world requires opposable thumbs, but surely they can't all be either dragons or slaves.
They could have sided with Malygos for all sorts of reasons. Slaves would be one big one. Another could be infiltration- trying to stop Malygos's machinations from the inside. Others, self-preservation. Side with the Spellweaver, possibly keep your magic when the Nexus War is through.
No doubt some of them think Malygos is right, too. A few members of the Kirin Tor think Malygos has the right idea, but his approach is disastrous and extreme, so they don't side with him. They think his actions are extreme, but maybe others don't think so at all.
In the Oculus, you fight Mage-Lord Urom. His words make it pretty clear that he thinks Malygos is right, and is doing what he's doing for the good of Azeroth. When you first meet him, he says, "Malygos is saving the world from itself!" When you take him out, his dying words are, "Everything I've done... has been for Azeroth..." He thought he was doing the right thing.
There are likely plenty of people that see things the same way as Malygos. Magic has to be brought under control. Magic has ruined Azeroth before, and it could do so again. From their point of view, you might even say that the Kirin Tor getting in the way has forced Malygos to do so many bad things. Would Keristrasza have been enslaved (and later killed) if we didn't kill Malygos's consort first? Probably not. Would the Blues have killed so many if we laid down arms? Nope.
Of course, it probably would have left us open to attack by outside forces like the Burning Legion... but maybe not. Who's to say Malygos wouldn't have helped us, in the end?
Personally, I'm on Dalaran's side, and I don't want to look like a Malygos apologist or anything. Just sayin', it's easy to see how people would side with the Aspect of Magic over the Kirin Tor.
Jeryia asked...
I'm curious, Why do and Horde and Alliance want to kill Sartharion in the Obsidian Sanctum? The boss does not appear to be doing anything particularly evil. Are we just killing him because of Nefarion and Onyxia?
I answered this over in The Queue, but it fits here pretty well, so I'll plug it again. It's a follow-up to the events in Night of the Dragon, yet another poorly written and poorly timed book. It's written like it's supposed to set up some of the events of Wrath, but was actually released after it.
Basically, Sartharion is protecting Twilight Dragon eggs. The Twilights are another hybrid creation of the Black Dragonflight. It's an attempt to recreate and bolster the flight, like Nefarian's Chromatic Dragons that we dealt with in Blackwing Lair. If you've done the quests on Netherwing Ledge in Shadowmoon Valley, you might remember meeting Lady Sinestra, one of Deathwing's lackies.
She showed up on the Ledge and asked for Netherwing Eggs from the Dragonmaw. This is a direct continuation of that. The Twilight Drakes are a Netherwing/Black Dragon hybrid, and they feed on magic, including magic of other dragons. They're bad juju. Sartharion is protecting a crapton of Twilight eggs beneath Wyrmrest in the Obsidian Sanctum, and we're dealing with them before they all hatch and grow into an army of magic sucking drakes/dragons.
They give no indication of this in-game, which is a real pain. They could at least give Krasus some flavor text about it, you know? But that's why we go in there. To deal with the Twilights. Sartharion is given the job of protecting those eggs, so we have to go through him.
fresca asked...
I've been wondering, how is it that we are allowed to kill Malygos? Isn't killing an aspect kind of messy lore-wise (especially an aspect of magic)?
Nope, not really. It's a common misconception that an Aspect's death would have massive widespread ramifications for Azeroth, but that's never been proven or given much weight. Mortals had no idea what was going to happen, but that doesn't necessarily mean something would happen.
The Titans empowered the Aspects to keep an eye on Azeroth. To watch over it, and guard it. Azeroth certainly existed before the Aspects. Think of them more as Guardians, rather than Keepers. Malygos watches over the ebb and flow of magic. He doesn't control it, he just makes sure it's going alright. He's there to make sure it doesn't get out of control. He isn't the source of magic, he's just the guy that's supposed to oversee it all.
Likewise, Nozdormu isn't Time itself. He's supposed to be the guardian of Time. The stuff we see going on in the Caverns of Time is specifically why he exists. He's there to stop things like the Infinite Dragonflight from cocking it all up.
The death of Malygos won't make magic explode the world or anything, but it does put the responsibility of watching over it much more heavily into the hands of other people. There's no dedicated overseer of magic now. Mortals will need to take things into their own hands, and other Blue Dragons will need to step up.
The same with Nozdormu. If he died, the most powerful defender of Time would be gone. The timestream would be made more vulnerable, but it wouldn't stop moving. Other people would need to step up, and mortals would probably need to take a more active role in the Caverns of Time than we are right now (though we're definitely chipping in a whole lot already). And Nozdormu will be gone one day. The Titans specifically showed him when he'll die, so he doesn't get too cocky about his power over Time. He's not above death. Even Nozdormu will die one day, and that right there is pretty good evidence against world-wide ramifications of an Aspect's death.
Maybe the Aspects are just starting to outlive their usefulness. Maybe mortals have reached the point where they can fight for themselves and don't need massive dragon overseers controlling their actions. Who knows? If we can kill Malygos, we're probably capable of watching over magic on our own.
Or maybe we're not, and the next expansion is the downfall of Azeroth. Who knows!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Ask a Lore Nerd
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
dpak Dec 29th 2008 2:01PM
After finishing that quest line...
I do not want to run nexus anymore.
Excellent story....although I wish the dialogue was more ...in alignment with the rest of the story...
Its truly tragic.
Of course, I do run it...its loot an xp....but....
Nailgun
Thickglasses Dec 29th 2008 9:52AM
My guess is that the unnamed raid probably involves going into the rift and fighting the unstable magic that malygos was holding... just think about it, they were fighting intense just to keep control of the Nexus, and in the Oculus they warned us again and again that the magic was uncontrollable, and Malygos himself even warns us that killing him will only make our troubles worse. Anyways, I expect that the red dragonflight will eventually take up the role that Malygos's blue flight filled, leaving us to deal with our mortal troubles ourselves (which we've done for the most part anyways).
The Hammer Dec 29th 2008 10:29AM
Really? I see another COT raid.
Moramor Dec 30th 2008 7:32AM
I'm curious to see what they will do with the lore in the future related to the blue dragronflight. Obviously after we kill Maligos, we not gonna go slaughter all of the rest of blue dragons. And will in the future one or number of the elder blues will become the new guardians of magic. Although based on the lore most of the blues are not as old as many other elder dragons.
Debesun Dec 29th 2008 10:10AM
What's the big, glowing, circle... thing inside the keep in Wintergrasp (and SotA)?
Harlequinne Dec 29th 2008 10:26AM
To put it bluntly:
You have to get there to control either Wintergrasp or Strand of the Ancients.
Just a pretty game mechanic.
silverdragon Dec 29th 2008 10:32AM
Question!
Is the demon soul finally gone? It seems to have been finally destroyed at the end of NotD book, unless i read wrong which i keep thinking there might be a few shards left. Cuz i for one love the books, but im kinda tired of it coming up every freakin time Rohnin or Deathwing come up.
Riftsrunner Dec 30th 2008 10:38AM
There are still shards of the Dragon/Demon Soul around. Lady Sinestra cannot be the only Black dragon (or power hungry entity, for that matter) with the wherewithal to see it as a major power item. And I wouldn't be surprised to find that Deathwing , if still alive, has a huge piece and is plotting some way to use it to reestablish his hold over the other dragonflights. I don't think they will ever find all the piece as it is a great device to keep the Black dragons motivated toward their leaders vision. And because he was so linked to it, Deathwing will always get a mention whenever someone is found with another piece.
Mattimus Dec 29th 2008 10:33AM
I have a question that this article reminded me of, actually.
When I did the quest for Quel'serrar, Lorekeeper Lydros said that these swords used to be created by the five Dragonflights and given to special individuals... that they were essentially "Prismatic" blades, or something.
I can't find the quest text again to go over it some more, but it's always left me a bit curious as to the lore behind the swords. Obviously the one players made from Onyxia wouldn't be as powerful as the swords he was talking about, but with all the ever-growing demand of people asking Blizz to let us upgrade our old favorite weapons, the heavy involvement of the Dragon Aspects in WotLK, and even King Varian Wyrnn dual-wielding these swords, I'm just more curious as to what exactly Quel'serrars are all about.
Saladfork Dec 29th 2008 10:50AM
So is Azeroth flat (like Discworld)?
Because if not, why is the map to the west of Kalimdor and east of the Eastern kingdoms so painfully limited?
Did nobody bother exploring that far?
There could be another half a world over there.
Fusi Dec 29th 2008 4:46PM
No, in the halls of lightning there is a globe of the world. There's just a sea on the other side between Kalimdor and EK.
Amaxe Dec 29th 2008 11:26AM
Could also be a globe and sailing from Azeroth West or East Kingdom East could eventually lead you to the other continent...
... or it could be fodder for a future expansion
Faulsey Dec 29th 2008 11:30AM
Could also be nothing there at all.
Earth has (in theory, at least) been through phases where all the continents we know today were in on big landmass - similar to Kalimdor before the sundering.
At those times, there'd be nothing on the other side of the world from the huge continent - Azeroth could be in a similar position.
Cyrus Dec 29th 2008 12:41PM
Yes, Azeroth is round. There's one continent we have never seen: the home of the Pandaren. Sure, they were introduced as an April Fool's Day joke and we'll probably never seen a Pandaren in WoW, but they've appeared in previous games and a few quests in the Barrens even refer to Chen Stormstout. They're a part of the lore.
(If there's another continent, then Azeroth has to be round because in the sky over the Black Temple you can see Azeroth from space, and you can only see the explored continents, so the Pandaren homeland must be on the other side of the globe.)
R. Sue Dec 29th 2008 1:59PM
Without getting too spoilery -- in a level 80 instance in Wrath, you do actually see a whole globe of Azeroth. It is round, and there are no other continents than the ones we see today. (Probably won't keep them from adding more someday, but still.) There's just a big ol' expanse of ocean between the sides of the map.
DataShade Dec 29th 2008 3:39PM
And the Pandaren are supposed to be native to the "southern reaches of Kalimdor." If you ever go to Land's End Beach in Tanaris, you can see an island far to the south; they should either be out there, or in the mountains south of Un'goro, between Silithus and Tanaris.
Olicon Dec 30th 2008 1:53AM
The Pandaren has to come from somewhere, and it certainly isn't on the current map. I think there is something outside of the two continents. Not sure how big, or how involved it is with the lore though.
Jehanne Dec 29th 2008 11:09AM
I've always thought of the Kirin Tor and Dalaran as the Time Lords and Gallafrey of WOW, dedicated to the preservation and regulation of magic in Azeroth. I think part of the irony of the blue dragonflight's actions is part of the reasons magic has become so dangerous is that Dalaran was destroyed and their mission halted.
Thiosion Dec 29th 2008 11:17AM
Not really a question, I just want to know a(nother) Lore Nerd's take on my ideas. Copied from the WoWhead forums because their links have been acting odd for me lately.
We don't really have a lore/RP forum, so I decided to plunk this in general and see how mutilated it is when I check back the next day.
After reading over the Gnew Gnomish Gnation Redux on the official forums, Zozo's ideas fit really, really well into the puzzle of Azeroth's Genesis. Gnomes, Dwarves, Vrykul, Giants. They all had a purpose, but what?
-quote from earlier post-
Loken's Bargain is one of several massive machinated caverns found in the Storm Peaks. Via an aerial mount, the entrance can be found in the sheer cliff north of the Valley of Ancient Winters.
The name suggests that Loken somehow bargained with Mimir or vice versa. Not to tarnish your vision of the gnome's creator, but it's quite possible Loken fooled Mimir. He fooled Thorim, and they were brothers.
Lets look at the state of each of the Temples in Storm Peaks. Storm is fine, obviously. Thorim is still present. Wisdom has been grasped by strange vines which seem oddly (or not so oddly) similar to Old God tentacles. Fair enough, Loken is clearly serving Yogg-Saron, an Old God. Then it gets interesting. Life is in ruin. This could simply be symbolic for the Scourge's desecration of the land, or it could be that Freya is the Guardian of that Temple and her absence is causing it to fall apart. Invention: again, strange. Bodies of friendly Mechagnome Attendants litter the floor, and hostile Mechagnome Laborers harvest the corpses.
This lends itself to the Loken's Bargain theory: Loken tricked Mimir into revealing the secrets of the Mechagnome race, and somehow took control of a portion of them. With those mechagnomes, he destroyed most of the loyal gnomes and exiled the rest. Mimir is either banished, killed, or reduced to a powerless state, as seen when handing in Norgannon's Shell.
A clear possibility is that, in attempting to wipe out the free mechagnomes, Loken or Yogg-Saron attempted to use the Curse of Flesh on them. The few that were protected by Titan devices remained mechanical: as you can see, there are very few of them left. The rest were afflicted by the Curse and became gnomes.
Another important thing you need to note: the Curse is not meant to be used in the same way as, say, the Plague of Undeath. Yogg-Saron considers it's victims to be weak and powerless. It's a weapon that's meant to debilitate it's victims, not convert them.
One last thing, I promise: The Iron Dwarves glow with the same energy that naturally flows through the Mechagnomes, which are clearly also made of Iron. Loken's Bargain could easily have been the knowledge of how to shape Iron and animate it.
-end quote-
Mimir, the more I think about it, seems to exemplify the same traits as the gnomes themselves; specifically Mekkatorque: Brilliant, but overly trusting and absent-minded. The entirety of the relation between Mimir and Loken may be seen as an analogy for the relation between Gelbin Mekkatorque and Sicco Thermaplugg.
Gnomes were obviously not meant to be a seed race. They are made from Iron, not stone. As evidenced by the Discs of Norgannon from Uldaman, the Earthen were created from a variety of Azeroth's geological types. They were meant to be inhabitants of Azeroth and were made of it.
Unfortunately, we have not met any non-hostile Vrykul or Giants not afflicted with the Curse of Flesh. As to whether they were made from Stone or Iron, we cannot say. However, the fact that they were seed races made to inhabit Azeroth suggests stone. Madrak, a handle created to make it easier for mortals to interface with Titanic archives, tells us that only Earthen, Vrykul, and Giants were meant to be seed races.
Gnomes, however, were NOT a seed race. They were made from Iron. This suggests a major point: Iron is not native to Azeroth. Iron may be a common metal on whatever world the Titans herald from, or it simply may be a creation of theirs.
Back to Mimir. He clearly created the Mechagnomes to maintain his machines. I'm making a large assumption here, but bare with me: Mimir became attached to the Mechagnomes. He refused to let them leave the planet with the Titans. This love for his creations would inadvertently fuel the greatest of the Old God's plots, for Iron was left on Azeroth. The Earthen, and presumably Vrykul and Giants, were made of Stone and later flesh; they could not be manipulated by the Titans: they were part of Azeroth.
The Titans reluctantly agreed to allow the gnomes to stay, once again showing their massive lack of foresight: the Mechagnomes would be the next Sargeras.
Some time later, Loken was enthralled by Yogg-Saron: I hope to find out why. The other guardians of Azeroth are unaware of his corruption. He tricks Mimir into revealing the secrets of the Mechagnome's anatomy: with this, he takes samples from the Earthen, Vrykul, and Giants being created by the Forge of Wills (to replace those corrupted by the Curse of Flesh) and uses his new knowledge to turn them into the first Iron Giants, Dwarves, and Vrykul. Vrykul, whom I believe to be the warrior caste of the Titan's creations, are chosen to defend the forge: specifically Sjolnir the Ironshaper.
Mimir is cast aside, as are the Mechagnomes who were given enough free will to see that Loken is evil. We don't know Mimir's fate, but we DO know that the gnomes who were exiled were afflicted with the Curse and became the gnomes we know today. A side affect was a natural attunement to Azeroth's ley energies, resulting in a natural affinity and resistance to Arcane magic.
Mimir is killed or made so powerless he cannot warm Freya and Thorim of Loken's plot. Loken kills Sif and turns Thorim against the Frost Giants, immediately eliminating two of Loken's most dangerous foes. Freya's fate is unknown, but she retains enough power to send her avatar to Sholozar Basin eons later to defend it from the Scourge. At some point the Temple of Life is desecrated.
In other words, in a much more simplified format, Loken used Mimir's knowledge to corrupt the seed races and curse those that would not join him. It is possible that the Giants and Vrykul were unable to find protection and therefore there are no more Earthen Giants or Vrykul.
Here is what I believe of the seed races:
Clearly, the Titans did not see the Trolls as a threat. It's entirely possible they were an anomaly in the evolution of Azeroth that the Dragons did not notice or care about: Freya suggests that all current life on Azeroth was created by the Titans, but Troll myth speaks of the Titans clearly as "Travelers", meaning they existed during the forming of Azeroth.
The Earthen were created for labor, and before the Mechagnomes were accepted by the Pantheon, care of Titanic devices. They still retain that knowledge, though it only applies to stone, not iron.
The Gnomes replaced the dwarves as caretakers when they were recognized as a seed race. They still retain the ability to manipulate iron.
The Vrykul were meant to be warriors and defenders. Oddly enough, their allignment with the Lich King may actually be following orders: the Lich King is as much an enemy of the Old Gods as he is of us.
The Giants are an enigma. Due to their extreme similarities to the Titans, I am lead to believe that they were meant to civilize the planet. Clearly, the corruption of Loken and their persecution by mortal races lead to a failure in that aspect: their hostility towards smaller races may simply be their way of expressing that failure.
This is all conjecture, of course, but it's something to think about. Discuss.
Mattimus Dec 29th 2008 12:48PM
That is quite a read, though it is pretty interesting.
With all of the weight that Loken seems to hold over lore directly related to player races, it seems odd that he was made a 5-man boss instead of a raid boss in Ulduar.