Encrypted Text: Hunger for Blood is terrible (to play)
by Chase Christian 
Dec 31st 2008 at 11:00AM
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we discuss how troublesome Assassination's new rotation is.During my regular readings of the Rogue forums, I often heard complaints regarding our Assassination 51-pointer (Hunger for Blood). The main issue is that people find with it comes from the fact that it takes our required button-pushing amounts from manageable to annoying. I was skeptical at first, as I had not been having much trouble with it in heroics and the odd Vault of Archavon run.
I initially figured Mutilate would be a more interesting rotation than the old Rupture/SnD spam that was TBC Combat Swords. With Mutilate generating way more Combo Points than Sinister Strike, and simply replacing SnD with Envenom in my raiding DPS rotation, I figured it would be business as usual. I trade off using Mutilate less than Sinister Strike by having to keep HfB up. Easy enough, right? Wrong.
After running my guild's first full Naxxramas clear last weekend, let me confess to you: I have now felt your pain. At one point during Grobbulus, I was strafing around a corner to keep in melee range of the boss, pushing '2' to Envenom to keep my nearly-faded Slice and Dice stack from falling off (thanks Cut to the Chase!), pushing '~' to open my microphone for Ventrilo so I could yell at (I mean, prompt) a healer to get out of a green poison cloud, and reaching for 'g' so I could refresh Hunger for Blood as I only had 4 seconds before losing all 3 stacks. As I'm running around the outside of the room trying to decide which button is worth letting go of (answer: I had my ret paladin fiancée yell at the healer over Vent for me) I realized exactly what many of you have been saying for the past few weeks.
The Problem:
Now, I won't place all the blame on HfB for our current "out of fingers" problem when raiding. Naxxramas was oft-heralded as one of the best designed instances due to its unique fight mechanics and challenging strategies (check out the old 4 Horsemen strategies for homework this week).
Having experienced its full breadth, I can tell you that there is one mechanic that Blizzard seemed to use in every fight: movement. Trying to keep moving while DPSing at the same time is now more challenging than ever. More buttons in our rotations, more timers to watch, and more complicated movements in more fights; it's the perfect storm of unmanageability.
Hunger for Blood is also an unusual mechanic for Rogues as well; at least for me. I can't tell you how many times I let HfB drop during non-combat situations like the DDR dance on Heigan or waiting for Gothik to teleport over to the Undead side of the room. It will definitely take a few more runs for me to truly get a sixth sense for keeping it up.
Many Rogues offer the idea of having HfB be 'free' to cast or being refreshed from critical Mutilates, making it much simpler to build into a rotation and effortless to keep up. The problem with HfB is that it increases all of our damage by 9%, which is wicked powerful for a single talent point. For those of your that argue that a 51-pointer should be awesome, I agree. However, with Assassination having so many DPS increasing talents by itself, adding a 'free' 9% damage is simply too much. The energy cost must remain in order for it to stay balanced. The amount of damage/energy that a Rogue can put out increases with every new piece of gear, and so to keep HfB scaling well (that is, so it doesn't get nerfed) we have to pay that cost.
The Fix:
I have been brainstorming (as well as reading various forums and articles) for ideas on how to resolve the HfB management problem. While some solutions like removing the energy cost seem simple, they are not balanced. The question is then presented: How can you have a spell still cost energy but yet have it cast automatically? From my research, possible resolutions come in two main flavors: a glyph or a talent modification.
As long as glyphs exist, there will be people posting glyph suggestions everywhere they can find. I have seen a few great ideas such as Glyph of Shadowstep that adds the ability to ShS while rooted, or the Glyph of Deadly Throw which returns the Silence effect to the move. Mutilate is probably worst-off when it comes to awesome glyphs, especially for the raiding scene. With no Glyph of Mutilate or Envenom, its two core abilities aren't buffed at all. However, I feel that adding a Glyph for these techniques for a PvE convenience will hinder them getting a more well-rounded Glyph in the future.
So, we're back to either adding a glyph for a PvE Mutilate talent or simply changing the talent for 'free'. The two PvE talents that are considered to be core for Assassination are Focused Attacks and Cut to the Chase. They are picked up almost exclusively for PvE content and are key for maintaining any sort of reasonable rotation. Glyphing one of these talents would be certain to resolve the HfB issue while also keeping PvP balance (no pun intended) where it's at. Here's my submission:
Glyph of Focused Attacks: Your melee critical strikes imbue you with a Taste for Blood, increasing the remaining duration of your Hunger for Blood by 2 seconds but reduces the amount of energy gained by Focused Attacks by 2. If your Hunger for Blood has between 29-30 seconds remaining or not active, you receive the full 2 energy for each melee critical strike.
Hunger for Blood has a total energy cost of 1 energy per second if it is used exactly at 0 seconds remaining (which it never is, in practice). What this glyph does is guarantee you that perfect 1 energy/second cost for HfB, which in itself is a buff; while also allowing you to completely forget about keeping it up. It would require 15 critical strikes in 30 seconds in order to maintain HfB full time without having to cast it.
A fairly well-geared Mutilate Rogue can sport between 25 and 35% melee critical strike chance unbuffed, and 40-50% in a raid environment. A Mutilate Rogue's average attack speed with quick daggers will be around 0.75 seconds (depending on daggers and haste on gear). This means a total of 80 white attacks in a 30 second duration. Figuring 10% or so will miss due to the fact that no Rogue is at or near the melee dual wield hit cap, and we're looking at about 70 total attacks actually making contact. 70 attacks with a 30% chance to crit yields around 21 critical strikes in a given 30 second window from white attacks alone.
This means that even with average gear you will be able to maintain Hunger for Blood effortlessly. It also rules for solo farming, as you can keep HfB up much easier without any of the 30 energy overhead cost affecting your opening rotations; just start attacking a target and you're golden. Any excess crits will still yield energy, meaning that in addition to ensuring a 1 energy/second ratio for HfB you also don't lose any effectiveness from Focused Attacks. Because Focused Attacks is so key to PvE Mutilate's viability, I feel that this glyph would truly be the best fit for us.
Now, as for a great 'Cut to the Chase' glyph that keeps the energy cost in place but also reduces the amount of management that HfB requires; I couldn't really figure one out that I would be confident recommending to Blizzard. So that challenge I leave up to you, readers. Put on your shadowy thinking caps and leave a comment with how you would fix HfB: whether it's with a complete redesign, new glyph, changed talent, etc. The best few ideas will be featured in next week's column! Speaking of, look for a special edition of Encrypted Text tomorrow that covers the top10 Rogue changes of 2008!
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Talents, (Rogue) Encrypted Text, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Jayc Dec 31st 2008 11:15AM
Personally, I did not find the HfB rotation to be too difficult to keep up or annoying. For me it is much more enjoyable than the constant SS/SnD/Rupture spam that is combat. I used an addon (NeetToKnow) to easily track stacks and time remaining for HfB.
I found that over time I began to intuitively know when it needed to be refreshed. I have since switched to combat (due to a lack of dagger drops) and for several days found myself reaching for my old hunger for blood button every 27 seconds. If I can get daggers that come close to comparing to my current weapons I will go back to assasination and the current HfB rotation in a heartbeat.
~Jayc
Jayc Dec 31st 2008 11:22AM
Typo in that last post. The addon I use is called "NeedToKnow". It is great for tracking any buffs or debuffs on you, your target or your focus. On my rogue I use it for tracking the following: Slice and Dice, Hunger for Blood, Rupture, poison stacks and trinket procs.
The bars are nicely customizable and easy to read. Since I started using it, it has become pretty invaluable to me on most of my alts.
~Jayc
Mr. Stabby Mar 13th 2009 7:12PM
I use IceHUD for tracking my SnD, Combo Points, and Hunger for Blood. The bars make it easy to track the stacks and duration visualy.
Only problem is, when I spec for PvP I throw Prep on the same hot key my HfB was on....and I end up blowing a 10 min cooldown when I'm at the mailbox or something out of habit.
Coldbear Dec 31st 2008 12:10PM
Cry more.
Try keeping up:
Savage Roar
Mangle
Rake
Feral Faerie Fire
Rip
And remember to shift out to Innervate the healer who didn't bother with mp5, and to combat rez the legendaries-flashing rogue.
Quickshiv Dec 31st 2008 12:16PM
I haven't tried HfB yet but I do want to add that NeedToKnow is a great addon. You can also setup icons to let you know if your main and off hand weapons are not buffed (AKA Poisons are down) or if you are missing any buffs.
Feist Dec 31st 2008 1:33PM
@ coldbear.
Slice and Dice
Rupture
Hunger for Blood
Expose Armor
Deadly Poison
Oh, and MDing to the tank (Or boosting the fury warriors DPS) on cooldown, and popping a disarm on cooldown too.
And QQ about the button on a 20 minute cooldown that can get you a raid invite over a rogue in many guilds.
vhdblood Dec 31st 2008 3:31PM
Hey, I just thought Jayc might want to know, that there is a blue BoE dagger you can duel-wield, Librarian's Paper Cutter (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37856), that is better than any dagger for mutilate until Naxx-10 trash drops, and even then, those are only a few DPS more.
Hope that helps.
dan Dec 31st 2008 4:03PM
@feist
please. most rogues rarely use expose armor in pve raid situations. The only time in my 4years of playing that I've even seen them think to do it is in the Instructor Raz fight since the understudies are doing the tanking and there isn't a sunder stack up as frequently as a result.
Pzychotix Jan 1st 2009 1:01AM
@Feist:
Rogues rarely use expose armor.
Cut to the Chase refreshes Slice and Dice.
Deadly Poison is automatic.
So your list boils down to:
Rupture
Hunger for Blood.
Whoop dee doo.
Lemons Jan 1st 2009 1:55AM
I love how every class thinks their rotation is the hardest.
Actually, keeping up all those things is hard because half the time you don't have the energy or combo points to do it. it costs 60 energy to mutilate and it may or may not crit so you may or may not get 3 cp.
plus if you happend to drop snd or hfb ur pretty much effed so yeah I'd say it's hard. Unless you've actually raided as a mut rogue don't open your mouth.
Magrorob Dec 31st 2008 12:39PM
Honestly I agree with Jayc, adding one more button into the rotation isnt that complicated. At least mutilate no longer has the "must be in back of mob" requirement. I really enjoy the way mutilate flows now. Instead of wasting combo points on SnD I get to drop them into damage instead. I find myself doing a lot more damage than combat swords.
In all honesty HfB keeps me paying attention to the raid or instance when I would normally start to wander off and get bored. When I do get lazy, I notice a significant drop in DPS, which is a constaint reminder to focus on the task at hand.
I never liked when i switched from mutilate to combat swords at 70, just to get more damage. I felt that the mutilate spec built stronger and smarter rogues, not the SS, rupture face rolling on the keyboard kind. And I am glad that they brought a little bit of a challange back into assasination.
One final question... Who said playing a Rogue should be easy? There are enough "Rouges" running around to give us all a bad name. There is a reason that huntards exist, we dont need them coming over to our class.
Bearnaise (BDF) Mar 5th 2009 9:07PM
I'll tell you the answer to that question, who says playing a rogue should be easy?
A mage spams frostfire bolt. (Fire/frost spec, 2nd best DPS)
A warlock spam one button of dots. (Affliction, current best DPS)
A balance/feral druid spam 3 buttons in an easy sequence.
A warrior also spam 3 buttons in an easy sequence, sure, popping trinkets and Death Wish every now and then like any other class.
A hunter spams a few buttons, in yet an easy sequence.
What more can I say? Why should I reroll a Rogue and have it much harder playing and enjoying the game?
Z28SSC Dec 31st 2008 11:36AM
To avoid typing a 4 page essay I'll simply state it'll get better with practice and say I think there are a few more pressing issues with PVE rogue than maintaining HfB. Top of the list has to be not poor but terrible dps when forced to switch targets or spend time away from the boss. This could perhaps be tolerated if we were topping damage charts as we should be on tank 'n spanks (squishiest melee class, next to no AOE, no buffs and hardly any utility as a pure DPS class must have SOME reason to be brought to the raid) but we know that isn't the case given similar levels of gear. (disregarding HAT bug)
Hopefully Blizz has some assassination glyphs in the works but have no fear- according to Ghostcrawler "they have something in mind!" They've had it in mind for months now and haven't bothered to implement it nor hint at what it is though. Does that alleviate your concerns? Yeah me neither.
Chase Christian Dec 31st 2008 11:37AM
Mag's solo HAT (unbugged) parses are among the top DPS parses out there:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13909383470&sid=1
The damage potential is there, it's up to us to pull it off.
Gnosh Dec 31st 2008 11:45AM
I like the author's suggestion, but I'd take it a step further.
Make it a self-only aura (basically a hunter aspect), that increases all damage dealt by 9%, but reduces your passive energy regen by 10% (which is essentially what it does now). Costs 10 energy to start, and fades after 15 seconds of you not attacking.
Quickshiv Dec 31st 2008 12:18PM
I was thinking about the same thing. This is a very good idea.
Charlie Dec 31st 2008 8:44PM
I do not play a rogue, but i have some comments on that.
That idea is a good one, but doesn't really fit with blizzards philosophy for 51 point talents. That would be something you would just have, always and forever. 51 point talents are supposed to be something you work into a rotation, at least from a mage's perspective.
Living Bomb is a great 51 point talent. Due to haste and hot streak, it never, ever, ever works out that LB expires during a standard rotation, you have to decide when and where to cast it after it expires (waiting the .5 sec to cast, cast a fireblast, or another FFB, etc.).
Now mages rotations are far simpler (Scorch, FFB alot, keep LB up, Hot streak when it happens) than a rogues, but a self-aura just doesnt fit in with the philosophy of 51 point talents.
(P.S. I can beat you all now as Arcane. Yay.)
Gnosh Dec 31st 2008 9:17PM
*most* 51-pointers are for your rotation- but not Beast Mastery or Titan's Grip.
Tinwhisker Dec 31st 2008 11:47AM
HfB isn't hard to keep up, it just takes practice and addons. It's a good talent at face value but I think Blizz forgot a little history when they made it.
Warriors used to have a talent called Rampage (not the current Rampage) wherein they would hit a button every X seconds to maintain a stack of a DPS increasing buff. Blizzard removed the talent because it "wasn't fun". Now Rogues have almost the same talent and are complaining it's "not fun."
Lets also not forget that Blizzard has often said that the game can be played without the use of addons and this just isn't the case for Mutilate Rogues right now.
The real problem with changing the Rogue version is that the entire tree is based off having it there in it's current form (benefit and energy cost). Altering HfB would likely require changing the entire Assassination tree. This may explain why Rogue news has been so sparse recently; they might be redesigning the Assassination tree. That's just speculation on my part though.
Mel Dec 31st 2008 2:53PM
The major issue with the talent isn't necessarily the extra cooldown to babysit. If you just pushed the button, got +9% damage, and had to refresh it whenever you could, it wouldn't be a big deal.
The problem is it stacks, and is so punishing to lose the stack. Drop the stack off, rather through your own mistake or inattention, or through fight mechanics that make you lose control of your character, and you have to spend:
- 90 energy
- 3 GCD
- Major cycle disruption
That's a hell of an opportunity cost that's more expensive than even its high face value shows. Bringing the stack back up means your SnD will likely drop off, your rupture uptime will drop off, you won't have the energy to use Tricks on the tank or give the 15% damage boost to top DPS, you're wasting energy instead of using it to do damage and keep poisons up with Mutilate, and if you have no warrior sundering, Expose Armor might be falling off.
Granted, you can overcome some of this with creative use of your abilities. Vanishing prior to rebuilding your stacks will reduce the energy cost of each application by 10, saving you some energy, but it still hurts.
I can see them wanting to punish mistakes by lowering DPS, but this just feels too punitive, especially seeing as how many fights force you to lose control of your character. And isn't the loss of the 9% buff bad enough on its own, without essentially resetting the rogue and making them start from scratch in their "warm up" cycle?