Encrypted Text: Hunger for Blood is terrible (to play)
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we discuss how troublesome Assassination's new rotation is.During my regular readings of the Rogue forums, I often heard complaints regarding our Assassination 51-pointer (Hunger for Blood). The main issue is that people find with it comes from the fact that it takes our required button-pushing amounts from manageable to annoying. I was skeptical at first, as I had not been having much trouble with it in heroics and the odd Vault of Archavon run.
I initially figured Mutilate would be a more interesting rotation than the old Rupture/SnD spam that was TBC Combat Swords. With Mutilate generating way more Combo Points than Sinister Strike, and simply replacing SnD with Envenom in my raiding DPS rotation, I figured it would be business as usual. I trade off using Mutilate less than Sinister Strike by having to keep HfB up. Easy enough, right? Wrong.
After running my guild's first full Naxxramas clear last weekend, let me confess to you: I have now felt your pain. At one point during Grobbulus, I was strafing around a corner to keep in melee range of the boss, pushing '2' to Envenom to keep my nearly-faded Slice and Dice stack from falling off (thanks Cut to the Chase!), pushing '~' to open my microphone for Ventrilo so I could yell at (I mean, prompt) a healer to get out of a green poison cloud, and reaching for 'g' so I could refresh Hunger for Blood as I only had 4 seconds before losing all 3 stacks. As I'm running around the outside of the room trying to decide which button is worth letting go of (answer: I had my ret paladin fiancée yell at the healer over Vent for me) I realized exactly what many of you have been saying for the past few weeks.
The Problem:
Now, I won't place all the blame on HfB for our current "out of fingers" problem when raiding. Naxxramas was oft-heralded as one of the best designed instances due to its unique fight mechanics and challenging strategies (check out the old 4 Horsemen strategies for homework this week).
Having experienced its full breadth, I can tell you that there is one mechanic that Blizzard seemed to use in every fight: movement. Trying to keep moving while DPSing at the same time is now more challenging than ever. More buttons in our rotations, more timers to watch, and more complicated movements in more fights; it's the perfect storm of unmanageability.
Hunger for Blood is also an unusual mechanic for Rogues as well; at least for me. I can't tell you how many times I let HfB drop during non-combat situations like the DDR dance on Heigan or waiting for Gothik to teleport over to the Undead side of the room. It will definitely take a few more runs for me to truly get a sixth sense for keeping it up.
Many Rogues offer the idea of having HfB be 'free' to cast or being refreshed from critical Mutilates, making it much simpler to build into a rotation and effortless to keep up. The problem with HfB is that it increases all of our damage by 9%, which is wicked powerful for a single talent point. For those of your that argue that a 51-pointer should be awesome, I agree. However, with Assassination having so many DPS increasing talents by itself, adding a 'free' 9% damage is simply too much. The energy cost must remain in order for it to stay balanced. The amount of damage/energy that a Rogue can put out increases with every new piece of gear, and so to keep HfB scaling well (that is, so it doesn't get nerfed) we have to pay that cost.
The Fix:
I have been brainstorming (as well as reading various forums and articles) for ideas on how to resolve the HfB management problem. While some solutions like removing the energy cost seem simple, they are not balanced. The question is then presented: How can you have a spell still cost energy but yet have it cast automatically? From my research, possible resolutions come in two main flavors: a glyph or a talent modification.
As long as glyphs exist, there will be people posting glyph suggestions everywhere they can find. I have seen a few great ideas such as Glyph of Shadowstep that adds the ability to ShS while rooted, or the Glyph of Deadly Throw which returns the Silence effect to the move. Mutilate is probably worst-off when it comes to awesome glyphs, especially for the raiding scene. With no Glyph of Mutilate or Envenom, its two core abilities aren't buffed at all. However, I feel that adding a Glyph for these techniques for a PvE convenience will hinder them getting a more well-rounded Glyph in the future.
So, we're back to either adding a glyph for a PvE Mutilate talent or simply changing the talent for 'free'. The two PvE talents that are considered to be core for Assassination are Focused Attacks and Cut to the Chase. They are picked up almost exclusively for PvE content and are key for maintaining any sort of reasonable rotation. Glyphing one of these talents would be certain to resolve the HfB issue while also keeping PvP balance (no pun intended) where it's at. Here's my submission:
Glyph of Focused Attacks: Your melee critical strikes imbue you with a Taste for Blood, increasing the remaining duration of your Hunger for Blood by 2 seconds but reduces the amount of energy gained by Focused Attacks by 2. If your Hunger for Blood has between 29-30 seconds remaining or not active, you receive the full 2 energy for each melee critical strike.
Hunger for Blood has a total energy cost of 1 energy per second if it is used exactly at 0 seconds remaining (which it never is, in practice). What this glyph does is guarantee you that perfect 1 energy/second cost for HfB, which in itself is a buff; while also allowing you to completely forget about keeping it up. It would require 15 critical strikes in 30 seconds in order to maintain HfB full time without having to cast it.
A fairly well-geared Mutilate Rogue can sport between 25 and 35% melee critical strike chance unbuffed, and 40-50% in a raid environment. A Mutilate Rogue's average attack speed with quick daggers will be around 0.75 seconds (depending on daggers and haste on gear). This means a total of 80 white attacks in a 30 second duration. Figuring 10% or so will miss due to the fact that no Rogue is at or near the melee dual wield hit cap, and we're looking at about 70 total attacks actually making contact. 70 attacks with a 30% chance to crit yields around 21 critical strikes in a given 30 second window from white attacks alone.
This means that even with average gear you will be able to maintain Hunger for Blood effortlessly. It also rules for solo farming, as you can keep HfB up much easier without any of the 30 energy overhead cost affecting your opening rotations; just start attacking a target and you're golden. Any excess crits will still yield energy, meaning that in addition to ensuring a 1 energy/second ratio for HfB you also don't lose any effectiveness from Focused Attacks. Because Focused Attacks is so key to PvE Mutilate's viability, I feel that this glyph would truly be the best fit for us.
Now, as for a great 'Cut to the Chase' glyph that keeps the energy cost in place but also reduces the amount of management that HfB requires; I couldn't really figure one out that I would be confident recommending to Blizzard. So that challenge I leave up to you, readers. Put on your shadowy thinking caps and leave a comment with how you would fix HfB: whether it's with a complete redesign, new glyph, changed talent, etc. The best few ideas will be featured in next week's column! Speaking of, look for a special edition of Encrypted Text tomorrow that covers the top10 Rogue changes of 2008!
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Talents, (Rogue) Encrypted Text, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Dave Toffling Dec 31st 2008 11:51AM
when i started coming across nice daggers in the high 70's i figured it might as well switch to Mutilate. i mean fist weapons and swords are in short supply, so why not spec for the more readily available weapon. we'll i finished off my last few levels as mut and started running heroics with my guild. Then comes the dps charts and me clearly bringing up the rear. i couldnt figure it out, i practiced the rotation, i got addon's to watch my HFB and still i just couldnt keep my DPS up.
i finally went back to combat fist/dagger and my DPS went back up. it made me much happier, yes the combat rotation is much easier but its where i feel comfortable. i know i'm not alone in the whole having trouble with mutilate thing and i'm glad its not the "only" spec out there.
i agree that there should be some better glyphs out there for Mutilate or at least the assassination tree.
Nintai Dec 31st 2008 12:03PM
Glyph of Mutilate - Your mutilate critical strikes increase the remaining time on your Hunger for Blood by 3 seconds.
Smak Dec 31st 2008 12:12PM
That is a great idea - doesn't seem to OP'd. Just get 3 more secs on each Mutilate crit.
Or what about Glyph of Hunger for Blood - You melee crits increase the remaining time on your Hunger for Blood by 1 second but reduce the energy generated by focused attacks by 1.
wreckml Dec 31st 2008 12:12PM
How about rather than have the entire buff disappear after 30 seconds, it just drops it down to it's previous rank. So, you have HfB up for 30 seconds with 9%, and when it gets to 0 seconds left it switches to 6% for 30 seconds. That way it still only requires 1 button press to renew it back to 9%. So if you miss HfB in your rotation, you don't have to use 90 energy to get it back, or just not use it at all for the rest of the fight. It doesn't make the ability free but it gives you an extra 30 seconds to renew it.
Grubba Dec 31st 2008 12:13PM
You mention a couple of times that you think a talent that boosts our DPS by 9% shouldn't be free, because it wouldn't be balanced, but it's not like this is bonus damage on top of baseline mutilate damage. It's included in the DPS balancing done for the assassination tree, and because it's not a chance-on-hit proc effect, they're treating it as something with 100% uptime.
Making it passive would be a boring solution, but it wouldn't be something that unbalances our DPS in any way.
Grubba Dec 31st 2008 12:23PM
I just re-read Tinwhisker's post, and I have to amend that I wasn't thinking about the net effect an extra 30 energy every 30 seconds would have on mutilate DPS without having to spend it on refreshing HfB. It still doesn't seem that unbalancing, but a tweak to focused attacks would almost certainly be enough to compensate.
npm Dec 31st 2008 12:36PM
I'm with you. I really found the HfB/Mutilate stuff was too much twitchy stuff. I was on sensory overload with all the candy bars counting down until SnD, HfB, rupture, Expose Armor and so on. I decided to spec out of it simply because I found it too difficult to play that spec well.
I think without HfB it'd be managable, though still very busy.
Overall I'm not terribly happy with my rogue's DPS and certainly not happy with the twitchiness aspect of playing a Mutilate rogue. I'm going back to the enhancement shaman.
sjyssstster@gmail.com Dec 31st 2008 12:42PM
I am shocked to learn that the Créme de la Créme of WoW-players, The Rogues, are having a hard time learning to press another button while watching timers.
And all this while running and focusing on the other plethora of factors in Wraths Chess Game For Brilliant People: The Dps-ers.
This of course only adds to the mountains of problems facing the class at the moment: Low survivability, inferior dps, horrible scaling and itemization. Not to mention laughable burst damage in PvP.
Thank god I shelved my rogue in time: These are clearly unacceptable demands from Blizzard, that only one - 1 - person could be clever enough to master the Gordian Knot known as Rogues.
I'm probably not even worthy healing these Masters of Skill, while i roll and keep lifeblooms up on tanks OH MY GOD WHAT IS THE DK DOING DEATH GRIPPING THAT 25-MAN MOB regrowth, LB, rejuv SHIT WHERE DID THE TANKS HEALTH GO? NS+HT, rejuv, LB to keep the stack up. Shall I let the 1,4k dps rogue who cant count timers for shit live? Probably have to: regrowth. WHY IS EVERY DPS STANDING IN GREEN STUFF?: Soon-to-be-nerfed WG. The priest is yelling for innervate - he is nice, Ill give it to him AFTER I HAVE HAVE COMBATRESSED THE HUNTER WHO VOLLEYd HALV OF NAXX. Dk....DK....STOP $#"%" Death Gripping with your questgreen dpsass. Gaaaaaah, LB, LB, LB, rejuv on tank. Back to the FOTM DK: regrowth, rejuv. *Pot* YES I CAN HEAR YOUR SCREAMS AFTER HEALS, hunter, HOW 'BOUT YOU TRY PLAYING AS A HUMAN BEING. DIE... DIE IN A FIRE. Lb, rejuv on tank, lb, lb because the stacks fell off. Etc..
Etc..
:(
afflictor Dec 31st 2008 12:44PM
Seriously, if one rogue can do it, then everyone could. Just because you're not good enough to pull something off doesn't mean it needs changing.
And seriously, rogues? you CAN move and press buttons. try keeping up an Affliction rotation in a fight that requires movement.
And know what, Aff-lock rotations (while much much much harder than ANYTHING else in game right now, aren't broken) and every other class that needs skill does NOT need nerfing, it just needs every other class brought up to its level.
Quiz Dec 31st 2008 12:50PM
Rogues should be harder to play.
As for movement being a problem, try being a caster.
Eth Dec 31st 2008 12:59PM
I'm very disappointed to see something like this posted here.
How to keep Hunger for Blood up 100% of the time without letting it fall off:
Don't be terrible.
Boo hoo, you have one more button to push, one more thing to watch. Seriously how easy do you want this game to be?
All the whining is coming from people who jump right to screaming "its tooooo hardddd!" instead of testing their rotations and actually improving their play. Bads.
Yes HFB is a bit odd to work with at first. But once you actually learn to play with it, it isn't, and shouldn't be a problem.
I prefer Mutilate over boring Combat any day.
Chase Christian Dec 31st 2008 1:02PM
I'm disappointed in you for complaining about a change that removes 1 button every 30 seconds and also increases DPS.
Eth Dec 31st 2008 1:14PM
A DPS increase to Mutilate is not really needed.
Hitting one more button is just too hard for some people I guess.
If I want to play a spec that I don't need to think about, I'll go spec HAT.
Chase Christian Dec 31st 2008 1:00PM
There's a big difference between "hard to play" and "pushes a lot of buttons". Rotations and energy pooling and so forth take a bit of skill. Pushing a button every 30 seconds for no real reason does not take skill.
If you think that asking to remove a single button press every 30 seconds is asking too much.... then who is really QQ'ing here?
a tree Dec 31st 2008 1:09PM
Please,
Rogue has never been - and will never be - hard to play. Really, it is not hard to move and press buttons while watching basic information on a screen. Other classes do it all the time, under worse circumstances. So spare the QQ and learn to adapt.
I think and hope developers have more to focus on than accomodating one the most OP ez-mode classes currently in the game. But again, you never know. Fotm 14-year old dps-ers probably are the bulk of the subscriber base, so who am I to predict.
Circ Dec 31st 2008 1:10PM
After you get used to playing mut HfB isn't especially difficult to keep up most of the time, but when things get out of hand or you make a mistake, your dps goes down the toilet when HfB falls off. Getting back up to 3 stacks and back into your rotation takes a long time and since everything dies so fast these days you never get back up to max dps (and there's only one thing rogues do and care about, and that's max dps). So, that kind of blows.
Also, the HfB 'nervous tick' play mechanic isn't fun.
Invisible Elf Dec 31st 2008 1:14PM
I don't think keeping hunger for blood up is hard, but I think it's BORING and ANNOYING, shouldn't that be reason enough to ask for a change?
Hailene Dec 31st 2008 1:26PM
So you have to keep up HfB, SnD, and Rupture, but like #20 said, you could be an Affliction Warlock. You could have to keep up Haunt, UA, Immo, CoA, Corruption, and SL. You can't just refresh these whenever possible, you have to wait until it's fallen off or your DPS goes down. I spend so much time watching debuff timers that I barely look at the actual game during a boss fight.
So while it may be annoying, and it apparently is, you COULD have it worse hehe.
Jamin Dec 31st 2008 1:36PM
HfB can be difficult in some fights to keep up. Before I hit 80 I was combat and I was ready for a change. I like the HfB build, but my main problem is that the extra requirement of keeping HfB up my dps seems quite weak. The only special is Cold Blood. I've got a Nax dagger now so I'm reluctant to switch, but as soon as I can get some decent Combat weapons I'm going back. The really sad thing is that when I play my rogue I want DPS! We can't tank, heal and are squishy as all hell. We need to have DPS. I'm starting to play my priest more because I can bring the same DPS with waaaaay more utility. I've seen this quite a bit when trying to get into pugs. I also see very few rogues anymore.
Come on Blizzard give us some DPS!
To keep everything balanced you can just give us the hunter's nerfed dps. ;)
Steve Dec 31st 2008 1:37PM
HfB is ridiculously easy to keep up. You do need a mod to keep a better eye on it, like NeedToKnow or ClassTimers. Also bind it to one of your easier access keys, mine's was ~ which seemed to be your vent.
You can keep HfB out of combat in stealth. You can spam it during movement. Well not "spam", but tap it. Might as well cause if you're moving enough and not dps'ing you'll be energy capped anyways, spend it.
And if, if you ever do let HfB fall off, Vanish and take advantage of Overkill.
Mutilate is meant to be "harder", but it's not really that hard when you get used to the timer refreshing buttons (HfB, Envenom-SnD, Rupture). And what you get in return is the highest single target dps for a rogue, if you can pull it off. Probably not all rogues can do it.
So any "buff" to this HfB to make it easier will either come with a nerf elsewhere, or they'd be forced to rebalance every rogue spec, possibly every other dps as well.