Encrypted Text: Hunger for Blood is terrible (to play)
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we discuss how troublesome Assassination's new rotation is.During my regular readings of the Rogue forums, I often heard complaints regarding our Assassination 51-pointer (Hunger for Blood). The main issue is that people find with it comes from the fact that it takes our required button-pushing amounts from manageable to annoying. I was skeptical at first, as I had not been having much trouble with it in heroics and the odd Vault of Archavon run.
I initially figured Mutilate would be a more interesting rotation than the old Rupture/SnD spam that was TBC Combat Swords. With Mutilate generating way more Combo Points than Sinister Strike, and simply replacing SnD with Envenom in my raiding DPS rotation, I figured it would be business as usual. I trade off using Mutilate less than Sinister Strike by having to keep HfB up. Easy enough, right? Wrong.
After running my guild's first full Naxxramas clear last weekend, let me confess to you: I have now felt your pain. At one point during Grobbulus, I was strafing around a corner to keep in melee range of the boss, pushing '2' to Envenom to keep my nearly-faded Slice and Dice stack from falling off (thanks Cut to the Chase!), pushing '~' to open my microphone for Ventrilo so I could yell at (I mean, prompt) a healer to get out of a green poison cloud, and reaching for 'g' so I could refresh Hunger for Blood as I only had 4 seconds before losing all 3 stacks. As I'm running around the outside of the room trying to decide which button is worth letting go of (answer: I had my ret paladin fiancée yell at the healer over Vent for me) I realized exactly what many of you have been saying for the past few weeks.
The Problem:
Now, I won't place all the blame on HfB for our current "out of fingers" problem when raiding. Naxxramas was oft-heralded as one of the best designed instances due to its unique fight mechanics and challenging strategies (check out the old 4 Horsemen strategies for homework this week).
Having experienced its full breadth, I can tell you that there is one mechanic that Blizzard seemed to use in every fight: movement. Trying to keep moving while DPSing at the same time is now more challenging than ever. More buttons in our rotations, more timers to watch, and more complicated movements in more fights; it's the perfect storm of unmanageability.
Hunger for Blood is also an unusual mechanic for Rogues as well; at least for me. I can't tell you how many times I let HfB drop during non-combat situations like the DDR dance on Heigan or waiting for Gothik to teleport over to the Undead side of the room. It will definitely take a few more runs for me to truly get a sixth sense for keeping it up.
Many Rogues offer the idea of having HfB be 'free' to cast or being refreshed from critical Mutilates, making it much simpler to build into a rotation and effortless to keep up. The problem with HfB is that it increases all of our damage by 9%, which is wicked powerful for a single talent point. For those of your that argue that a 51-pointer should be awesome, I agree. However, with Assassination having so many DPS increasing talents by itself, adding a 'free' 9% damage is simply too much. The energy cost must remain in order for it to stay balanced. The amount of damage/energy that a Rogue can put out increases with every new piece of gear, and so to keep HfB scaling well (that is, so it doesn't get nerfed) we have to pay that cost.
The Fix:
I have been brainstorming (as well as reading various forums and articles) for ideas on how to resolve the HfB management problem. While some solutions like removing the energy cost seem simple, they are not balanced. The question is then presented: How can you have a spell still cost energy but yet have it cast automatically? From my research, possible resolutions come in two main flavors: a glyph or a talent modification.
As long as glyphs exist, there will be people posting glyph suggestions everywhere they can find. I have seen a few great ideas such as Glyph of Shadowstep that adds the ability to ShS while rooted, or the Glyph of Deadly Throw which returns the Silence effect to the move. Mutilate is probably worst-off when it comes to awesome glyphs, especially for the raiding scene. With no Glyph of Mutilate or Envenom, its two core abilities aren't buffed at all. However, I feel that adding a Glyph for these techniques for a PvE convenience will hinder them getting a more well-rounded Glyph in the future.
So, we're back to either adding a glyph for a PvE Mutilate talent or simply changing the talent for 'free'. The two PvE talents that are considered to be core for Assassination are Focused Attacks and Cut to the Chase. They are picked up almost exclusively for PvE content and are key for maintaining any sort of reasonable rotation. Glyphing one of these talents would be certain to resolve the HfB issue while also keeping PvP balance (no pun intended) where it's at. Here's my submission:
Glyph of Focused Attacks: Your melee critical strikes imbue you with a Taste for Blood, increasing the remaining duration of your Hunger for Blood by 2 seconds but reduces the amount of energy gained by Focused Attacks by 2. If your Hunger for Blood has between 29-30 seconds remaining or not active, you receive the full 2 energy for each melee critical strike.
Hunger for Blood has a total energy cost of 1 energy per second if it is used exactly at 0 seconds remaining (which it never is, in practice). What this glyph does is guarantee you that perfect 1 energy/second cost for HfB, which in itself is a buff; while also allowing you to completely forget about keeping it up. It would require 15 critical strikes in 30 seconds in order to maintain HfB full time without having to cast it.
A fairly well-geared Mutilate Rogue can sport between 25 and 35% melee critical strike chance unbuffed, and 40-50% in a raid environment. A Mutilate Rogue's average attack speed with quick daggers will be around 0.75 seconds (depending on daggers and haste on gear). This means a total of 80 white attacks in a 30 second duration. Figuring 10% or so will miss due to the fact that no Rogue is at or near the melee dual wield hit cap, and we're looking at about 70 total attacks actually making contact. 70 attacks with a 30% chance to crit yields around 21 critical strikes in a given 30 second window from white attacks alone.
This means that even with average gear you will be able to maintain Hunger for Blood effortlessly. It also rules for solo farming, as you can keep HfB up much easier without any of the 30 energy overhead cost affecting your opening rotations; just start attacking a target and you're golden. Any excess crits will still yield energy, meaning that in addition to ensuring a 1 energy/second ratio for HfB you also don't lose any effectiveness from Focused Attacks. Because Focused Attacks is so key to PvE Mutilate's viability, I feel that this glyph would truly be the best fit for us.
Now, as for a great 'Cut to the Chase' glyph that keeps the energy cost in place but also reduces the amount of management that HfB requires; I couldn't really figure one out that I would be confident recommending to Blizzard. So that challenge I leave up to you, readers. Put on your shadowy thinking caps and leave a comment with how you would fix HfB: whether it's with a complete redesign, new glyph, changed talent, etc. The best few ideas will be featured in next week's column! Speaking of, look for a special edition of Encrypted Text tomorrow that covers the top10 Rogue changes of 2008!
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Talents, (Rogue) Encrypted Text, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
nutroll Dec 31st 2008 2:30PM
in theory, shouldn't you not need any addons to play the game (i know omen and dbm/bigwigs etc are a must...). But shouldn't the game be playable right out of the box.
I like the idea of HfB only losing one stack when not refreshed.
you could also make it so that your finisher critical strikes refresh HfB to its current 30 sec stack but makes that finisher cost 15 -20 energy. or slow passive energy regeneration for 2 seconds afterwards
Ghost Dec 31st 2008 1:39PM
Hunger is fine dude, L2P.
jmjm Dec 31st 2008 1:39PM
I love HfB and the Mutilate. I'm GLAD it is a harder build to play than combat. Raiding rogues could have two options: an easier combat rotation or a more challenging muti rotation with higher dps. That way our three trees have distinct benefits when you get to the 51-point talent.
Dear Blizz, keep this talent how it is so the rogues who are up to the challenge (and kinda like all the button-pressing and timer-watching!) get rewarded for their efforts.
RoguePowerBars is a good mod for watching timers.
Sixx Dec 31st 2008 1:57PM
I use this build for raiding, and with it, the problem of the annoying "Need more energy" to deliver all my attacks succesfully doesnt exist. I actually dont lack of energy for example, in the bosses fights that you knw, they take long, im always in the top dps cus i dont run out of energy or simple im always can do the attack that i want in time because i hav the energy required. Anyways im not the type of guy that knw how to explain the things well, but try it and let me knw waht u think, examine it, maybe ur abilities dont do a lot of damage cus ur putting ur talents having in mind u want more energy for ur rogue, but its a good build cus u can keep a lot of abilities instead of others builds that requiered u to wait until u hav enough energy to deliver ur mains attacks. Dunno just try it :P
Here is: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=02520520520050102231005012003053211053001020000000000000000000000000000000000000000&glyph=012004060204
jadickson83 Dec 31st 2008 1:57PM
- I'm afraid I have to disagree with your Glyph Of Focused Attacks suggestion. Taking away energy generation from this build is a really bad idea. Less energy = fewer Mutilates = less damage and fewer combo points per second. Energy generation is the last thing we should compromise.
- HfB is a pain in the butt, and when combined with how many boss fights 1-shot me with a shot me with a whirlwind or stomp, I am considering re-rolling. But it takes practice. Also, bind it to your spacebar key, that makes it a lot easier. As GC said, it's supposed to be hard, and the players who put the time in to master it will be rewarded with more results. It's not supposed to be an easy "everyone does 2000 dps by facerolling" build. Nor should it be.
- The problem, to me, lies not so much in our abilities but in how most boss fights work. We lose so much time running around, getting stunned / frozen, etc. We need a buff to compensate for this.
--> Suggestions that will buff PVE but not PVP: Remove glancing blows. Buff the haste given by Slicendice. Make HfB 1 stack costing 50 energy. Increase the amount of energy gained from Focused Attacks. Make Murder apply to all targets. Make HFB refresh the cooldown on Sprint. Give rogues something like cat druid's Feral Charge that can be used in-combat (must put this talent somewhere so it doesn't make us more OP in pvp). Buff Relentless Strikes.
Chase Christian Dec 31st 2008 2:01PM
Glyph of FA does nothing but INCREASE your total energy gained, as you would be spending that energy on HfB anyway.
Sirg Dec 31st 2008 1:59PM
To the "elite" crowd out there - why does the rogue class has to be hard? To make you feel more elite? Imo it's not hard, but compared to other classes the rogue has no other use in a group other than single target dps and perhaps, open a locked chest or a door.
The reason you see less and less rogues isn't because the rogue is a challenging class to play, but because it's not rewarding in PvE, many times you feel that the raid leader has granted you a favour by inviting you. One button more to tap isn't such a big deal, even though it's a bit annoying, but the lack of utility is a drawback of this awsome class that we love.
Flairy Dec 31st 2008 2:06PM
Mildly annoying.
There are bigger fish to fry in a rogue's world right now.
jadickson83 Dec 31st 2008 2:24PM
Chase, your math on your Glyph of Focused Attacks probably works out. It makes sense to me. The problem is that the greatest challenge facing rogues in pve is not our ability to keep HfB up, or the energy cost of refreshing the 1 tick every 30 seconds.
louie Dec 31st 2008 2:28PM
Guys it really only takes a little practice and believe me after you get used to it every other spec seems completely boring in comparison. My dps is great with hunger for blood and much higher than combat. I personally really like the spec now that I am completely comfortable with it. A rogue that plays HfB well really stands out from other rogues dps wise. Show off your skills and master the spec. Trust me it is worth it.
ashleyu Dec 31st 2008 2:34PM
y'all nagaz posting in a troll article.
10/10
Pollux Dec 31st 2008 3:02PM
This belongs in the WoW forums.
Kanuris Dec 31st 2008 3:19PM
Wow. Hate to sound like a Troll but Rogues bitching about having to press one extra button every 30 seconds?
QQ more nubs. Try reblessing everyone in a 40 man raid with 5 minute blessings only.
Grubba Dec 31st 2008 3:28PM
No kidding. It really sucks that you guys still have to deal with that.
Oh, wait...
Balius Dec 31st 2008 3:24PM
The problem with complicated classes, especially complicated melee classes, isn't that they have you pressing a lot of buttons. The problem is that, in a raid environment, an Assassination rogue is now watching his energy bar, health, his target's health bar, target's cast bar, combo points on the target, his own cooldowns, the environmental and AoE effects that usually show up on the floor, trying to keep three extremely short term buffs on himself up, trying to keep several short term debuffs up on the target, watching his potitioning relative to the boss to maintain DPS but not cause a parry-gib...On top of all that, a rogue doesn't really get a skill rotation like other classes, since it's so reliant on combo points which are themselves reliant on RNG in the Assassination tree.
It's a very complicated setup. And, since there's so much a rogue has to keep track of at any given time, rogue DPS is going to be much more susceptible to things like lag and latency inconsistencies, and even more reliant on the player being at the absolute top of his game lest his DPS rapidly crashing to the ground.
I like my rogue. I like the complication. But, as someone with 5 characters in the 70s and three at 80, I can say that my Assassination rogue is easily the most demanding to play, and the easiest to play poorly. If I were leading a raid, I couldn't trust a rogue I didn't already know well to play at the level the class demands if one of the classes that can comparatively AFK through fights and still manage top DPS were available.
Dankie Dec 31st 2008 6:24PM
Well said. I'd like to see these "You QQ too much, loser rogues, L2Play!" people try to keep up a hfb mutilate rotation on OS+3.
Y'know what? When my guild brought me with (as a rogue I dare not say my raid spot is ever secure) I said screw hfb and went back combat for the two weeks we worked on that fight and still pulled 4th on the kill.
There were so many factors in OS+3 and I knew my limits as a player. But y'know what? That doesn't make me a bad player, I don't need to L2Play... I just adapt to the situation and went with what I knew I was capable of, dare I say that's almost like a... Rogue?
Melchior Dec 31st 2008 3:26PM
I raid with an assassination rogue... Nursing HfB sucks donkey balls.
jay Dec 31st 2008 3:34PM
Do people still play rogues? I thought they all re-rolled death knights.
I'll blow the dust off my 70 when blizzard agrees to make them useful for something besides opening locks.
Yeah, I guess I'm kinda trolling.
treesus Dec 31st 2008 3:49PM
I'd just like to chip in with a point-of-view for casual and semi-casual players. I've found that outside of an instance, HfB is even less practical.
When world mobs are going down fairly quickly, and every half-second counts, there is very little time in the rotation to get in a HfB - and even if you do it won't be until the fight is nearly over anyway. If you're grinding through a big batch then the cost-return may be better, but I still find that I prefer to spend the talent on some extra dodge rating instead.
Roland Dec 31st 2008 3:59PM
Wow, surprised no one's suggested just playing HAT...as long as the multiple combo point "bug" stays implemented!
But seriously, I've been Mutilate since 72 or so, and until a 143 dps MH drops I'll most definitely be staying that spec. Sure, HfB is sort of clunky, and takes some getting used to - but it actually gives us *choices.* There will be and have been instances where, say, I've Mutilated an extra time and now face a rapidly decaying HfB, SnD and Rupture timers with only 20 energy and no combo points. (I got RoguePowerBars, but at this point I'm just used to glancing at the upper right of the screen.) As shocking as it may sound to Combat vets (myself included), you're now actually forced to think! Which do you keep up?
People who think Rogues are just about two buffs and one debuff are ignorant. Sure they're the most important ones, but especially when you have to prioritize keeping buffs up, you have to consider: Ruthlessness procs, Relentless Strikes procs (can I gamble and Envenom to refresh SnD, then get the energy to refresh HfB immediately?), using Vanish to proc Overkill if you get really behind - not to mention which gear to equip. Easy to start, difficult to master, as it should be.
But I'll but my dps where my mouth is. Here's the recount from a Heroic Archavon run I PUG'd last night on the US Drenden server: http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/786/dpspk4.jpg
After glancing at everyone's gear, I think that's where I *should* be (with three Naxx10 drops equipped, behind the Shaman with full T7 and the Warrior, both from Drenden's top raiding guild) on the charts, but I'm sure that if I had messed up my rotation more than I did (I let SnD drop a handful of times, and HfB dropped at least once, not to mention all the running around and OMG Gas Clouds and lag), I'd probably have been lower. In other words, skill and gear actually both have some bearing on your performance.
Here's my Armory, if you wanna make fun of my pants: http://tinyurl.com/9alg8w
I think Rogues are fine. In fact, I think mine's never been so fun to play.