Breakfast Topic: Calling it quits

by Elizabeth Harper Jan 2nd 2009 at 8:00AM

If you've ever played in a group or run a dungeon, then you know the nuisance and frustration of playing in a bad group. I'm sure most of us have been there -- a dungeon run that seems a never-ending string of wipes, a PVP group that's unable to stick together long enough to accomplish any objectives, and the inevitable repair bills that arise from a group of players that doesn't quite mesh. At this point in my healing career, I practically never group with people I don't know. Too many things can go wrong and any rewards that might come from running an instance aren't worth the sanity that would be lost by trudging onward after the fifth or sixth or seventh or eighth wipe. (And even sticking with people you know doesn't always lead you to pain-free groups -- I'll just say that Loken and I are never on friendly terms.) But a thousand complants about bad group experiences aside, when you're unfortunate enough to find yourself in a bad group, how do you know when to cut your losses and call it quits? Do you flee at the first sign of trouble? Hang in until the group leader calls it quits? Or do you have some other breaking point?

Tags: group, grouping, groups, instance, instances, pick-up-group, pug

Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Instances

Reader Comments (Page 2 of 6)

Deadly. Off. Topic. Jan 5th 2009 2:54PM

1. It's possible that he's just using "20" as an example. Like people say, "I pulled a crap load of mobs." We tend to give a bigger number than what actually happens."

OR

2. He could actually have meant 20 in which case he is the idiot...unless they were non-elite mob groups you’re suppose to burn down in one go. It could also have been a bad pull or something else happened that caused that many to converge.

I will tell you this, a good prot-paladin can tank a crap load of mobs if the healer is doing his or her job and keeps the paladin up. I’ve seen it done, in fact I’ve done it before when people mess up a pull and pull more than what they’re suppose to. (Please note that unless it’s a low level instance or something I’m confident that I can handle, I don’t intentionally pull more than one group of mobs. I leave that f**ked up mistake to the hunter.^___^ ) In Kara (pre Wrath btw), it would occasionally happen that our hunter was a moron (or someone stupidly got too close to the wrong group as a pull was going down) and I would have to go in and start AoEing all mobs that pulled. I survived this simply because I kept them off the healers and the healers kept me healed.

If the healers had decided, “Um, no, I’ll let you die.” Then guess what, no matter the number that was pulled, it’s the healers fault for NOT even bothering to try. You’ll be surprised at the stuff that gets done when people ACTUALLY try to do something. Most people are like “That’s too much, we’ll die” when in reality they haven’t even tried yet.

Ever watched a paladin pull with a shield and then when the mobs group up on the paladin who is consecrating there’s always an idiot who tries to sheep in the middle of that? Who would you think is the idiot there? The guy who couldn’t bother to sheep/shackle/banish etc immediately AFTER the pull so that the mob wouldn’t be able to reach the spot where the paladin is spamming consecration, or the paladin who is doing his/her job and keeping the targets fixed on him/her and not the healer?

john Jan 2nd 2009 8:24AM

i NEVER EVER pug a instance/raid/anything for that of a matter anymore.

Trygg Monson Jan 2nd 2009 8:22AM

As a healer I have come across my share of horrible groups and my share of awesome groups and just about everything in between. But I know when to get out as soon as people start playing the blame game. and as soon as someone gets on me for something thats A: isn't my fault, B: wasn't my responsibility, or if they are just plain out rude. I leave with as much dignity as possible but i definitely leave. WoW is a game and if I can't enjoy myself then why bother paying money every month to play it?

steve Jan 2nd 2009 8:42AM

Also a healer, and Trygg's comment about the blame game resonates for me. I usually pug 2 or 3 heroics every day, and I will stick with a group as long as most of the people are taking it seriously and *not* playing the blame game, even something painful like wiping on second boss of H VH and having to redo all of the waves. I think I get more satisfaction out of a poorly equipped PUG figuring a complicated fight out and getting it after multiple attempts than steamrolling a boss with naxx-geared guildies. However if I start getting stuff like "wtf healer?" (assuming the wipe wasn't my fault), I'll just say "hey guys, I'm just not geared enough or skilled enough to heal you. gl with the run." and drop out of the group. Those folks go on my "do not call" list next to my computer so I can avoid them next time. People who play well or at least follow instructions and don't blame game go on my friends list and I'll invite them to fill other groups, guild raids that need an extra dps or two, etc.

makkura Jan 2nd 2009 10:28AM

Agreed.
If blaming starts occurring it's usually a good time to leave.
Though there are some times when 'blaming' is more of 'reasons why we had this problem'. Mostly in instances where someone just switched to tanking and doesn't know the ropes so you can let them know what went wrong so they can work to correct it.

Usually by the time the blame game happens you can have a pretty good idea if it's really one person causing it or not.

I've seen many a time where one person will cause repeated wipes. Not waiting for mana regen, the dps that targets the wrong mob in sequence repeatedly, or that guy that always breaks CC.

Some of the tougher runs I've had lately usually involve one of the following: low average party dps, tank is under leveled/geared/speced.

Often the first can be irritating as it's a struggle to keep the tank up for a more prolonged fight when everyone is AoE happy. Signs of this sort of issue are: average party dps of < 700 (at low 70's), needing constant rest as a healer, wipes on normal mob groups.
Most interesting of these was an extremely low DPS hunter.
I believe it stemmed from him never using Steady Shot as his main dps was caused by Arcane shot.

The second is just plain hectic. If your tank isn't geared or speced (or just too low) for the instance you can see a LOT of crits against your tank. This doesn't mean we can't keep the tank up but it will often mean we can't spare the time to keep anyone else up. A tank that can't take 3 hits without dying is rough to keep up and throwing AoE heals out isn't really helping the tank keep up because the AoE is usually less than a third of your normal heals.

All that can be quite frustrating but I try to stick with my groups to completion or the group falling apart. Nothing is stopping me from cussing out my party though... good thing my mic is off :P

Rob Jan 2nd 2009 10:54AM

I think it depends. If you are dps, i mean really, good luck finding a PUG. In that case I'd rely on guildmates or just forget about instancing. As a healer I can find a PUG pretty dang quick (which is the reason I rolled a healing class).

But yeah I'd rather wipe a few times, really learn the encounters and trash, rather than a) be carried and not know what I'm doing nor learn anything, or b) wipe repeatedly on the same encounter. And usually? The wipes are on trash.

As a healer, bad tanks are just really painful, and good tanks immediately get into my friends list and promotion, ie I'll give them free enchants and so forth.

Lilene Jan 2nd 2009 7:19PM

My guild avoids the blame game by having a blame roll after wipes: you win the roll, you have to come up with the most outrageous reason possible why you caused the wipe. It's hard to be stressed or pissed off when you're laughing so hard you're crying.

Eight Jan 2nd 2009 8:24AM

I used to stick around and tough it out in groups like that but at this point I bounce pretty early. It's not worth the frustration or time 90% of the time. That said, you have to take each group case by case. If the entire group can speak in complete sentences and generally seems to be able to tie their shoes, I'll stick it out through a few wipes. If it's a group of leet speaking internet tough guys though, I'm out at the first wipe if I even zone in at all.

BM585 Jan 2nd 2009 8:26AM

I stay long enough to get to the next boss fight, use my Tricks of The Trade on the guilty party, hope something bad happens and promptly leave afterwards.

Skrotus Jan 2nd 2009 9:52AM

so when something goes wrong you chuck a tantrum and try to screw things up for everybody else, congratulations you're a jerk

Sedaa Jan 2nd 2009 8:26AM

If i have to repair twice on any run. I'm gone.

Ed (Sindarin, Hydraxis US) Jan 2nd 2009 10:07PM

Don't quite get why this was downvoted, seems pretty reasonable to me.

Marc Jan 3rd 2009 12:43AM

Note that the meaning of repair twice is having your armor go red twice after many many wipes; not wiping a mere two times.

Sedaa Jan 5th 2009 8:57PM

That's what i ment. not just wiping twice but armor going red twice. ^_^

Azhariel Jan 2nd 2009 8:31AM

Meh, I'm usually the last to quit, if I do. The first four or five wipers are "ok" if they are for "real reasons" as someone stated before (first timers, someone didn't run from aoe [Tribunal of Ages], etc), but the fun starts to decline when we're trying again and again with no advance. Sometimes it will just not do, it's better to try again another day.

Eternal Overlord Jan 2nd 2009 8:33AM

Once I saw a group fall apart after a single wipe, apparently somebody feared something and at the same time the warlock AoE pulled additional mobs. I didn't know about the AoE till later and so I was trying to find out whether or not the Priest or the Warlock feared the mob into the other mobs.

When asked the Warlock refused to answer and then left the group setting me onto ignore. The priest claimed that the warlock did it and also left the party leaving me, a guildy and a silent hunter standing around for about 4 minutes before we all just left.

Deac Jan 2nd 2009 9:03PM

When Threat became the 'next big thing' in WoW, even PuGs got used to the idea of letting the tank keep the threat, DPS doing steady but not threat-stealing damage, and the healer just healing. Not so, these days, the chase for the highest crit figure now seems to be the norm. I was healing a PuG the other day in a heroic instance. Shortly after posting the message 'Wow! 8k crit', the mage in the group got one-shotted by the boss we were fighting, as he stole the aggro (again) from the tank and (quite rightly) got splattered.

And who d'you think was getting the flak after that incident? The mage? The tank? Don't be silly...

Jarviswabi Jan 2nd 2009 8:51AM

For me it's all about making progress. I don't mind a few wipes as long as it seems like we're a) learning from what happened and not letting it happen again, and b) have a decent chance at actually finishing. If people keep making the same mistake 3 or 4 times in a row, I'm not afraid to bounce. Similarly, if someone clearly isn't able to fill their role (tank can't hold aggro, healer can't keep group up, DPS is sub-par), they need to be booted. My favorite tank in our guild is notorious for swift-kicking underperforming players from our groups--his lack of patience amuses me, but he has a good nose for who can cut it and who can't.

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