More on Ulduar and hard modes
by Eliah Hecht 
Jan 3rd 2009 at 6:00PM
Daelo, the lead encounter designer, has dropped a few more details about Ulduar, the tier 8 raid that is coming in patch 3.1 (whenever that happens to be). We heard yesterday that there will be more "hard modes" in the raid, analogous to Sartharion. Today we learn that, again like Sartharion, completing the hard modes will give you not only achievements but also additional, better loot. There is also, apparently, going to be an optional encounter in the raid that will be hard-mode-only; I'm picturing something like Nightbane here.
Furthermore, Ulduar in general, according to the post, will be harder than Naxxramas is. Naxx was tuned easy on purpose, and the devs have been saying for a while that Ulduar will not be that way, to the same extent. The analogy Daelo makes in his post is that if Naxx is "the introduction to raiding 101 class for players who have never raided before," Ulduar is "the second year class." So we won't be hitting a brick wall, but it probably won't be compared to UBRS either like Naxx often is now. Either way, we won't know much for sure until it's up on the PTR, but I'm certainly looking forward to it.
Filed under: Raiding, Wrath of the Lich King, Achievements
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
The Hammer Jan 3rd 2009 6:13PM
From what I can tell, this means that Blizzard are designing encounters to be easy, but with optional challenges tied to the boss, if more experienced players do so want to. So you get the best of both worlds - people get to see content, and thrill-seekers find challenges. That's cool.
Daniel Jan 3rd 2009 6:51PM
In theory, it's best to please both camps. My one concern is how this will work from a lore perspective. We already have illogical quests that make no sense. It's going to be really strange if there are optional bosses that then turns out to be a big deal in the next expansion. My point is not that Blizz can't make it work, just that far to often lore issues get shoved into the background and that leaves the players that do pay attention to lore scratching their heads.
Lemons Jan 4th 2009 1:04AM
Lore is constantly getting wtfpwned in the face. Blizz plans something from a game design perspective then warps the lore in order to fit that agenda, not the other way around.
Now that the whole Lich King storyline is coming to a close I don't even want to see what raid encounters and bosses they rip from the lore and shoehorn into the next expansion.
The Elitist Jerk Jan 4th 2009 5:17AM
The key to failure is to try and please everyone.
The ideal would be: 10-man - SSC-easy, 25-man - Sunwell-hard.
That way the casual scrubs and idiots can get their inferior purples (without regard to ilvl and stats) while people who bother to put a tiny amount of effort in their class and raid twice a week can get their well-deserved loot.
Amaxe Jan 4th 2009 8:41AM
So like I said before...
You don't want people to have what you have unless they have the lucky breaks you have.
Deny it all you want, but your QQ on the difficulty of WoW is basically a "WAAH, we used to be the best, but now everybody has what we have."
Pathetic really.
The Elitist Jerk Jan 4th 2009 9:43AM
You my point. I guess I'll have to break it down so even you will understand.
I think the best should get the best. This does not necessarily imply 24/7 raiding, just 25 people who excel each at their class with solid teamwork ability and preparation should get the best loot.
Just like the 3-day raiding guild that calls itself who killed KJ. (if you seriously think 12/168 hours is too hardcore, GTFO of my WoW)
Is this elitism? Hell yes. Is this wrong elitism as in "WHAA I CANT WALK AROUND IN SHATTRATH IN T6 BECAUSE EVERY MOUTHBREATHING RETARD HAS IT"? No. Is this the "I worked my ass off for this item, therefore only those who worked as much should flash it in Dalaran" kind of elitism? Yes.
Now /shoo, you have to whine how hard naxx10 is.
Amaxe Jan 4th 2009 12:57PM
On the contrary, I understand your point. You are stating it in a way that is "prettied" up and I am stating the reality of it.
Lets look at what you say and translate it:
EJ said:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I think the best should get the best. This does not necessarily imply 24/7 raiding, just 25 people who excel each at their class with solid teamwork ability and preparation should get the best loot."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And I pointed out that this is QQing over people who are not as good as you think they should be getting gear you think should be exclusive to people at your skill level.
As I said, you're whining that you're no longer the top geared.
EJ then goes on to say:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Is this elitism? Hell yes. Is this wrong elitism as in "WHAA I CANT WALK AROUND IN SHATTRATH IN T6 BECAUSE EVERY MOUTHBREATHING RETARD HAS IT"? No. Is this the "I worked my ass off for this item, therefore only those who worked as much should flash it in Dalaran" kind of elitism? Yes."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
To which I say, there is no difference. Are you really that blind that you can't see that?
Fine, gratz, live in your delusion that you are the best and should get more than the rest. You resent the number of people wearing the gear you worked for, and think it should either be harder so they can't get it or else that Blizzard should give you more because you are so "l33+" compared to "them."
Unfortunately you fail to realize that skills gained from earlier WoW make it easier to do later instances. Our pre-LK Kara runs taught our guild how to work together so that when we hit new content (which we did not study in advance or play on the Beta) there would be unexpected setbacks but we knew we could rely on each other to work as a team.
Some guilds are newer than others and are still learning how to get that coordination down, and they work harder to do what you call "too easy."
EJ then said:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Now /shoo, you have to whine how hard naxx10 is."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To which I say, show me where I complained about how hard Naxx 10 was.
I'll take my friends in quest blues, working hard to reach 80 in spite of RL over you and your guild every day, knowing that the changes to WoW mean we can hang together and still have fun instead of having to split up over having the wrong gear, the wrong spec or the wrong class.
I was a 60 before there was a TBC, a 70 before there was a LK. I've seen the best and worst WoW has to offer. In that dividing line, you are most definitely not part of the best WoW has to offer.
Aaron A. Jan 29th 2009 6:12PM
"I worked my ass off for this item, therefore only those who worked as much should flash it in Dalaran"
I don't mean this as an attack, more as a /confused, but do that many people actually stop to check other players out? I've seen an unusual mount and thought "Hey, that's kinda cool," but I can't say that I've ever given more than a passing glance at another player's stuff.
Me myself personally, I don't really care if some stranger walks up and says "u r teh awsumz, how cn i b good liek u???" When I finish a dungeon, I'll stop into town to bank/sell/mail my stuff, and then I'm headed back out to do dailies or farm some Rhino Meat to feed my guildmates. I don't stay in one place long enough for anybody to check me out.
Vivisectress Feb 18th 2009 9:01AM
@ Aaron A.
You would be surprised how many people check you out. Try putting on some high iLevel epix and put a nub enchant or gem in it, and see how many people whisper you about it, or even link it in trade.
I do tend to inspect people of the same class at me, to see where I am at, compared to them.
Vandell Feb 19th 2009 5:30AM
Hahah. The Elitest Jerk HAS to be a troll.
Scott Jan 3rd 2009 7:10PM
As a raider in vanilla WoW that started MC well after there was guild that had full tier 3 sets I was always frustrated at the lack of options I had for progressive guilds as I lacked the ability to pick up early tier gear as everyone was passed the content.
With the ability to enter Naxx at an easier level to get gear which allows me to take on harder content (I missed BC raiding as I had to stop playing) means that hopefully I won't have this issue in the future. I am very looking forward to the new instances coming out and I think Blizzard are definitely doing it the right way.
Though an interesting note on the lore for sure, not having read too deeply into lore they could say just about anything and I would believe but it is very interesting I might do some more research on it some time :)
maybesew Jan 4th 2009 12:43AM
@scott,
I'm not sure when you raided in vanilla wow, there weren't many guilds full of tier 3 since very few guilds made it through Naxx before TBC was released.
Even still the only thing that changed from MC to Naxx is the token system for tier loot. Other than that, in Vanilla wow you could have easily raided MC and BWL and gotten loot to catch up.
Doofy Jan 3rd 2009 7:25PM
It still goes down the day it's released on the live realms followed by QQing from Ensidia that it's too easy. Followed by everyone else claiming that they completely miss the point.
The Elitist Jerk Jan 4th 2009 7:56AM
.. maybe the next day, given previous patch day experience and the 20 raiding guilds on Magtheridon storming Ulduar at raid time.
The Elitist Jerk Jan 3rd 2009 7:19PM
Great, another oneshottable instance on first reset (assuming lag doesn't kill us) with optional "slightly less than easy" modes.
Time to wait for the hidden raid in 3.2 and Icecrown...
m2cents Jan 3rd 2009 9:30PM
Does that mean you'll go away and stop trolling wowinsider until then? ;)
person Jan 4th 2009 12:50AM
Please?
The Elitist Jerk Jan 4th 2009 1:12AM
No.
Person Jan 4th 2009 1:50AM
Awesome. It must be this winning attitude that makes people continually ask you to please stop, and please go away, here and elsewhere. Do you not care that nobody wants to hear what you have to say when it's all just negative, destructive, anonymous criticism? It's not helpful, it's not needed, it's not wanted. You simply make the world a little bit less pleasant by your actions, both for yourself and for the rest of us.
Mesia Jan 4th 2009 4:29AM
It'll be easy and boring, but at least it's not an instance I already cleared years ago with reskinned gear my main already has.
And hey, look on the bright side! We'll get to see BRK's infinitely helpful posts about an instance he still won't be able to complete despite how dumbed down it is and other casual bloggers like Matticus babble stupidly about how hard it is (and how they finally got a boss on farm!).