The Queue: Pandapocalypse
by Alex Ziebart 
Jan 5th 2009 at 8:00PM
Welcome back to The Queue, WoW Insider's daily Q&A column where the WoW Insider team answers your questions about the World of Warcraft.
I was right in that there are no laws against virtual pandas getting shivved or whatever, but there definitely was an issue with the Pandaren race, culturally. It's much more likely it just ran into a lot of friction when it came down to dealing with censors and the cultural shift, and it became not worth it to risk losing players over. I'm sure the fact that the Pandarens' original design was much more Japanese (see above) than Chinese didn't help, but that was shifted in the right direction eventually and may not have had an actual impact at all. And with that said...
Cadychan asked...
I don't know if this is more of a lore question, but here goes: The dragons. Yes, the dragons. How did the race itself come to be? Were the five dragon Aspects already part of an existing dragon race, and the Titans were like "BAM! Here's some powers, 'cause I like the way you five do things around here," or more of a 'the Titans created the dragons as avatars and bestowed them with specific powers and tasks'?
I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B. I suspect the Proto-Drakes ar what the Dragons were like before Titan involvement, but I'm not sure if there's anything that specifically says that. Just that there's some relation. All of the Aspects were made from Galakrond's offspring, so the race was already there in some capacity. It's probably safe to assume they (as a race) were there before the Titans, and the Titans just made them awesome.
eddiebinde531 asked...
I have questions on 25 man Naxx, why did Blizzard constantly say you should bring the player not the class this expansion yet made Instructor Razuvious and Grand Widow Faerlina in heroic need priests to MC their adds?
In response to me wondering this during the 10 man version, a guildie said Blizz might be giving another class the ability to MC as well. I seriously doubt it but want to know what WI thinks about this rumor.
I don't think they'll be doing that. 'Bring the player not the class' is tossed around all the time, but only goes so far. Encounters couldn't have any diversity at all if you had to avoid including a special class ability. It's safe to assume that you have a Priest of some sort in your 25-man raid. Holy, Discipline, Shadow, whatever. Razuvious can be done with one Priest, it just takes some high quality play on the part of everyone else. It'd be a problem if you needed 3+ Priests, like Felmyst.
A much easier alternative would be to just keep those crystals in Heroic mode for Razuvious, if something had to be done at all. Giving out Mind Control to another class entirely is sort of silly.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Siona Jan 5th 2009 8:15PM
Further proof that China is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously at any time.
Muse Jan 5th 2009 8:22PM
Replace "panda" with "nipple" and you have a fair idea of the cultural *cough* issue. Like the Janet Jackson nipple incident. The grand majority's reaction was, "It's a nipple, so what?" A small minority went, "oooh, nipple!" And a very small, but oh so vocal minority were screeching, "ZOMG nipple! Moral decay! Ban! Censor! Think of the children!"
Yes, it's ridiculous.
Amaxe Jan 5th 2009 9:39PM
@Muse:
That does not logically follow. Pandaren are not a moral issue, so the outcry over the pandaren does not come anywhere near the issue of nudity on public TV as regards the Jackson incident.
And before the ad hominems come out, whichever side you take on the issue of nudity on TV is irrelevant to this.
The analogy fails because it involves two entirely unrelated issues.
Palithras Jan 5th 2009 9:53PM
@Amaxe
The two are extremely similar, since morals and morality flow from the cultural norms of the society. A nipple on TV is a morality issue in America because of American cultural values, not the other way around.
Since the Chinese government links the Panda to Chinese culture, it may very well be a moral issue for them. So Muse's analogy is perfectly apt.
Amaxe Jan 5th 2009 10:06PM
Actually no. Not to derail the thread, but what happens to some sort of animal mascot is different than the violation of a culture's moral taboos. Nudity on TV is an issue because it reflects the traditional American moral views or a rejection of them (those who were offended vs those who were not).
The Pandaren issue is an issue created by the Chinese government. The Chinese government are not adverse to having pandas portrayed at all (Ranma 1/2 aired in China, sans nudity for example and was popular in part because of Genma Saotome [person who turns into a panda]).
Really the two things are entirely different.
Taxidermy Jan 5th 2009 11:44PM
I think your wrong Axeman. Just because you identify with animal icons as a sporting mascot, doesn't mean another culture won't see them as being an important symbol for their country.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a nipple being seen on TV, however its taboo in the American culture, so it becomes a morality issue to them. Personally, I wouldn't think a nipple on TV is a morality issue, as it doesn't offend my morals.
Likewise, the use of an animal that the Chinese seem to base a lot of their national identity on in a video game could be seen as being incredibly tasteless or even an insult. In the same vein, I could see it being made an issue by a small group of people if they made a race that looked like American bald eagles (a race like that would be ridiculously lame).
It also happens the Chinese government exerts a lot more control over their public than the American public.
Aigarius Jan 6th 2009 4:50AM
Well, there are 3 times more people in China than in US. Why should anyone care about US much again?
Candina@WH Jan 6th 2009 7:42AM
A better comparison of the relationship would be:
People killing Pandas evokes a similar reaction as People burning an American flag.
It is a national identity thing. It is not the same as a sports mascot, in the same way the American flag is not equivalent to a sports mascot.
A small, very vocal minority (who in this case have the full weight of the government behind them) became upset.
Which is why the original Panda imagery being dressed in Japanese costume created such an outcry. China and Japan do not like each other much.
brucimus Jan 6th 2009 10:56AM
True. The Chinese have done a great job keeping the RL Pandas close to extinction
Xilnold Jan 5th 2009 8:25PM
I know it sounds rediculous, but imagine the reaction if the game featured an antropormorphic bald eagle in a nazi outfit.
That, essentially, is why the chinese would be upset.
Bob Dewane Jan 5th 2009 9:07PM
If there was ever a bald eagle wearing a Nazi uniform in this game, i would be the first to hunt that backstabbing SOB down and gank him! NO SYMBOL OF MY COUNTRY WILL BE CAUGHT PRODULY SPORTING THE SWASTIKA IN AZEROTH!
I understand the cultural variances, but really, there is not anything off the top of my head that I'd be offended over if it were put into WoW. I mean its a game, right?
To each their own, though. Besides, if Chinese players stopped playing, who am I gonna buy farmed gold from? =P
Amaxe Jan 5th 2009 9:44PM
Xilnold said...
I know it sounds rediculous, but imagine the reaction if the game featured an antropormorphic bald eagle in a nazi outfit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Really? foreign press have done this with the Bald Eagle and Uncle Sam several times in political commentary when it was in response to US foreign conflicts.
If a foreign game company did this, I would find it in dubious taste, but recognize America does not have the veto power over the Eagle. and it is not an issue worth censorship over.
Ironically, I recently read an Economist article asking whether the Eagle the Americans used was really a Nazi symbol (because the Germans used it in WWII)
The whole "This animal is from my country so you can't use it" is rather asinine I believe.
Zins Siel Jan 6th 2009 12:17AM
Amaxe, the point isn't that the Chinese have the power to overthrow Blizzard, or whatever it is you're arguing. It's the fact that it would still be a moral issue and still result in the loss of sales. Using the mentioned example, if a bald eagle in a Nazi uniform showed up in Everquest, the US wouldn't necessarily have the power to overthrow the company or dictate what it can and cannot put in their game, but it'd still offend people and would be a very unwise move for the Everquest devs.
Ludeitz Jan 6th 2009 6:44AM
@ Bob
You do realize that before the Nazi's put the swastika all over their uniforms and flags and attempted to "purify" the world, it was actually a symbol of peace?
So a bald eagle with a swaztika would be a peaceful american bird thing :S
i would also like to add that u have all gotten off topic. i cant speculate the deeper reasons why the chinese government don't want pandaren in the game cos im not a chinese government official.
its my opinion that blizz should do whatever they see as the best action for their business and if keeping the pandaren out keeps the million or more chinese players playing its the best decision they could make from a business stand point.
and from a game point of view, regardless of whether they are added or not, i will still play and so will most of the current 11mil subscribers.
my opinion and u r all welcome to opinionate my opinion, rage rage rage rage rage rage rage rage rage rage. let it loose
Rioriel Jan 5th 2009 8:27PM
What *is* the big fuss/demand for a panda race? They look ridiculous. Have I missed some important event in WC games/lore of old?
Xilnold Jan 5th 2009 8:30PM
They're a race called the pandaren. There was a neutral hero one in Warcraft 3, and one, named Chen, was part of Rexxar's band of merry men.
Josh Jan 5th 2009 9:01PM
If Blizzard could pull off the Tuskarr or Taurens, why not Pandarens? Like Xilnold has already mentioned, they are already part of WC lore. If you look closely at the WC3 version of Illidan Stormrage's Twin Warblades, you'll see the image of a Pandaren's head engraved at the center. I really hope to see more of them in an upcoming WoW expansion. ^.^
Duplag Jan 5th 2009 9:37PM
I personally believe it can cross lines that Blizzard can't control in the game. Think of how some chat's hit Blood Elves as being "sissy's" and you can almost see the ease of linking racism to pandas or more specifically where they are from/most likened with.
Amaxe Jan 5th 2009 10:37PM
Rioriel said...
What *is* the big fuss/demand for a panda race? They look ridiculous.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, almost as bad as Tauren. ;-)
I guess I find this ironic that we think Pandaren are a stupid idea, but American Indian Cows are natural for WoW.
I wonder if Blizzard had made the Pandaren a race, would we be arguing now about whether the idea of Tauren were stupid while Pandaren were OK...
Fandon Jan 6th 2009 3:55AM
you could also base the fact of tauren coming from a minotaur which is a bit of an older influence. The story of how they are created isnt quite a pg rating either lol. So I'd say ya the native american is kinda odd but it works whatever but taurens are definitely a minotaur carbon copy.