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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: Serious business decisions
by Amanda Dean 
Jan 13th 2009 at 1:00PM
WoW has changed considerably over the years, often for the better and sometimes for the worse. Better and worse are, of course, a matter of perspective. Slovotsky of Turalyon is getting fed up with people complaining about the easing of raids. He's confident that Blizzard made the choice to lower the difficulty on raids because more of the player base can now have a chance to experience them. He disagrees that casual players have ruined the game. Familiarity may also lead to boredom. Some of the guilds that have progressed through Naxx have already done so either in the Pre-BC era or on the PTR.As some pointed out, Blizzard is a for-profit business. The company's job is to sell a product, not to rule with a heavy hand or coddle the incompetent. The switch to an inclusive raiding environment was most likely a marketing decision. Caydence of Draka drove this point home, to rebut the argument that players will quit WoW because it's easier. It is simply a better business decision for Blizzard to alienate the "hardcore" players who make up a small minority. She suggested that the subscriber base has grown with each ease in difficulty.
Arcwulf of Stromscale claims that WoW is a bait and switch for OP players. he complains that Blizzard is catering to the "whiney nubs" that can't handle a difficult and demanding engame. This contingient believes that its not fair for "OP" players to suffer through boredom so that more people will be included. Perhaps should Blizzard continue to make an exclusive endgame while allowing a portion of their player base to "go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure," as Arcwulf put it. Is WoW for Hardcore players, casuals or both?
I am a member of Blizzard's target audience. I am excited to be included in the endgame content this time around. I'm in a small guild with no desire to be in a massive one. I'll never be a front line raider. I'm not in it for shiny purples, I'm here for the social/cooperative experience. I hope to make it through all of the content as it is released. I don't see myself becoming bored any time soon. If I do, I'll roll another alt, work on achievements, or come up with some wacky goal for myself. See you in Naxx.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Raiding, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 7)
Pugnus Jan 13th 2009 2:20PM
If you want a tedious challenge, the "hardcore" can always turn to some mindnumb of a game like Vanguard. It's so hardcore ... only 10 people play now .... yippee!
Sharkhunt Jan 13th 2009 2:48PM
Would love to see some of these self-proclaimed "hardcore" types ascend in Nethack as a wishless tourist without using spoilers.
ssQuark Jan 13th 2009 2:23PM
To the raider who finished WOTLK content in less than a month:
You've been playing this game for YEARS! How on earth can it be a challenge for you? The truth? You don't want it to be a challenge - you just want it to be time consuming. WoW is the one place where your lack of social life and responsibilities are seen as admirable. Please stop mistaking an abundance of free-time with skill.
Liel Jan 13th 2009 2:42PM
But But but if I have more free time I might have to do something else /sarcasm
Antonia Jan 13th 2009 3:59PM
wow so true.. never thought of it on that angle, kudos
Terquoise Jan 13th 2009 2:24PM
I've been playing this game for over 3 years. While I agree completely this content is a bit easier than in the past...not to mention far easier to gear up for. I am somewhat grateful that the content is so. When I first began playing I raided nearly 20 hrs a week pounding through most of pre-bc content. After BC my life took a change (beings I am not a young one...ended up with 3 kids over my course of playing wow). I flat out don't have the time to put into the game that I used to. However, I have the skill and usually raid 8-12 hrs per week...usually one long one saturday nights 6-8 hrs alone there.
Based on this raid schedule I actually progressed through all of the bc content except sunwell. One of my largest issues was finding people that wanted to raid around the schedule that I had. After WoTLK opened we worked our way to 80 and geared. I dumped my old guild and started my own....with some people in similar situations as myself. Because we're reliable players we're actually grabbing alts of raiding guilds on our servers as fill ins and clearing most the content on a weekly basis. I hardly hear any QQ'n from them about conted. Sure, everyone is waiting for something harder. But, a lot of them are working on the 3 drake sar. Alot have downed 25 man....but, only one guild on our server has done it 10 man....and they were 70th world wide to do so (grats to shadow remains).
So what's casual and what's hardcore. To some I am hardcore. To others I am very casual. Frankly, I fell I am neither and reguardless of the difficulty of the content I will eventually get through it being hard or easy.
Now to get to the casual deal of this. There are some people....quite a few of them on the full blown casual side out there that really....just shouldn't be raiding. With the que's that we've had lately some of our folks haven't made the raid time. We've had to pug some folk...and with the ease of the os and arch runs along with heroics....I can't believe some of the numbers these casuals are putting up with the gear they are wearing. Note to people....if you can't put up 2kdps in naxx 10 or 25....don't go...read something...talk to someone....your doing something wrong. When I am ret...my farts do more damage than that.
We've also seen a lot of raid dynamics change. I usta run with a ton of ranged dps. Now I can't buy a ranged dps for nothing. Healin has become far more interesting in WoTLK than before. Right now I am mostly heals (BC was a tank) due to the lack of reliable healers out there and my never ending rule that I wont pug a healer or a tank I am healing. In the old days for a pally I just spammed fol....now I have like 8 buttons to hit...kinda fun...I don't fall asleep healing (except for most heroics).
All in all I applaud bliz for their change. I do hope there's something more difficult in the future to split the men from the boys. But, right now with the massive amounts of changes I'm relatively happy.
On another note....please fix the ques....having to wait an hour to play a game for an hour or two each night gets a lil old.
Noel Mcleod Jan 19th 2009 1:27PM
I'm kinda torn here. I want to be able to experience all the content, and if it's only available to hardcore then I'll NEVER get to see it (unless I divorce my wife and kids ...). Hardcore is OK for those with time on their hands. And I pay for two accounts a month, so Blizz probably wants people like me (my account and my kids account).
I think there should be a VERY SMALL amount of "l33t" content that only the HC can do, but it should be minimal. And being able to do it should give you bragging rights and somewhat better loot but no gear that absolutely overpowers.
Melody Jan 13th 2009 2:29PM
You need to face reality. You so hardcore people are in the minority. BLIZZARD wants to make money and catering the game to one segment does NOT equal profit. I suggest you grow up, get over it, and move on to the next game and hopefully when you grow up you won't be so elitist.
Alar Jan 13th 2009 2:37PM
Has anyone else heard that the IRS (U.S. government) is trying to come up with a way to tax us in real life for the things we earn in online MMOs like World of WarCraft? I hope everyone fights against this, because the ramifications are much worse than I originally considered they would be.
1.) Every online game that can be taxed in this manner will be forced to get the personal and financial information of every player that plays it and upload it to IRS servers, increasing the chance hackers can commit fraut and identity theft by a great percentage.
2.) People who make very little or no income but are able to play due to the kindness of others will either be forced to quit or find a way to pay these new Internet Gaming taxes.
3.) Underaged players who are not forced to pay taxes will likely have their eDebt passed on to their parents, with or without their permission unless the IRS passes strict laws forcing parents to sign up to these games for their children.
These are just three good reasons off the top of my head. I don't know why anyone would come up with such a ridiculous idea, but if it's successful, Internet gaming may well be ruined for future and current generations.
SuckItTrebek Jan 13th 2009 2:43PM
I'm not sure if I should applaud your attempt at trolling....
....or cry myself to sleep to think that people like yourself actually fall for this sort of nonsense AND populate MMOs I play.
Alar Jan 13th 2009 2:45PM
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/12/0430211 There you go, buddy. And I wasn't trolling, I was making a valid point.
Cy Jan 13th 2009 3:11PM
Valid point or no, what the hell makes you post something this random in a completely unrelated story?
If you want this to get some attention, this website has a form for submitting tips. Use it.
Melody Jan 13th 2009 3:18PM
This will only affect people who farm and sell gold.
And if you read it, it affects people who play and build on Second Life and other places like There.
There are people who make ALOT of real life money on Second Life and the DESERVE to be taxed.
I had a friend who played on Second Life who was a modest builder and was grossing about $15,000 a year.
infection Jan 13th 2009 5:55PM
Yeah, just because you didn't type
"zomg loo loo man joo"
Doesn't mean you aren't a troll....
You came here and posted something that has nothing to do with the topic.
Go crawl back under your bridge.
SuckItTrebek Jan 13th 2009 6:59PM
Good job on the reading comprehension, regarding that link.
This article isn't "ZOMG I'M GOING TO BE TAXED FOR THE 7K GOLD I EARNED FROM DAILIES!"
This article is "hey. real money might be taxed if you make a transaction with real money, just like in the real world." What goes on regarding the REAL MONEY in this transaction is irrelevant-whether you're buying gold, selling accounts, etc.
So no, this is not the government "trying to come up with a way to tax us in real life for the things we earn in online MMOs". The "earnings" (lol) that you paid for are irrelevant. Thanks for at least TRYING to back up your claim as something other than retarded "I heard it on the internet so it must be true!" jibberish, but next time try pulling your head out of your ass first.
I think this is a GREAT post for the article, though. Here we are discussing whether or not WoW continues to pander to dumber and dumber demographics, with capacity for anything complicated, and someone who thinks their WoW gold will be taxed by the government pops up.
Alar Jan 14th 2009 9:20AM
Alright, alright. I concede. I didn't read the entire article in either place, and most of what I said was what I'd heard from other people. Yes, it was stupid of me to post this before I had a chance to comprehend all the information, and yes, I should have read through the entire article. I was reading up on what I thought was an important topic for WoW players and momentarily considered this post to be a good place to put the information out there for anyone who hasn't seen it before.
Everyone makes mistakes, but the Internet is forever.
MisterDude Jan 13th 2009 2:50PM
Quote: "Arcwulf of Stromscale claims that WoW is a bait and switch for OP players. he complains that Blizzard is catering to the "whiney nubs" that can't handle a difficult and demanding engame."
Who's whining now?
Vektorix Jan 13th 2009 2:50PM
Really, no "hardcore raider" I know (and being one I know quite a few) has EVER said one word begrudging the ability of casual players to see and do Wrath of the Lich King content. NONE. It's a straw man without any relevance to the real issue, and all it does in inflame the passions of casual players who, let's agree here, should have the option to do end game content.
What we "hardcores" do complain about is the implementation of "hard mode" as gimmicky achievements such as Sartharion + drakes, rather than actually offering a tuning level for the fights that actually is challenging. Normal/heroic mode dungeons in Burning Crusade were good examples of how to do it right - normal/heroic raids in Wrath are examples of how to do it wrong.
WoW has succeeded more and more mostly because it has offered something for every play style, from the most casual to the most hardcore. In Wrath Blizzard abandoned hardcore PvEers, offered content that was ONLY tuned to a low level, and attempted to mollify hardcore PvEers with gimmicks. Regardless of whether you think content SHOULD be accessible for casual players, it should be a no-brainer that challenging content should be available for ALL players. By offering a "true" Heroic tuning level option for the 25-man raids Blizzard could have satisfied everyone, but didn't. THAT is what most annoys me, and every single "hardcore" raider I know.
Cy Jan 13th 2009 3:21PM
No, what you complain about is that you want your hardcore raids, and you want them NOW, and until you get them, you're going to bitch and whine and moan about how easy the "whole game" is.
Guess what? This isn't the whole game. You just need to be patient -- something your lot seem incapable of doing. Instead, you choose to stick around, and bitch and moan.
What's funny is that for all the threats of quitting and leaving the game, you guys are still here by and large. Blizzard knows that you'll stick around (or at least keep coming back) for the new content. They're not too worried about you, especially when for every one of you who loses interest, they keep the interest of several "casuals".
Vektorix Jan 13th 2009 3:39PM
Hmm...
"you want your hardcore raids, and you want them NOW, and until you get them, you're going to bitch and whine and moan about how easy the "whole game" is."
Doesn't the squeaky wheel get the grease though? If enough people want more challenging, less gimmicky content, should they NOT speak up? Certainly if we were all quiet about it then Blizzard would have no reason to believe anyone WANTED harder content.
Which, to me, seems to be the attitude of a lot of people who feel that WoW should be a "casual-ONLY" game as opposed to a "casual-FRIENDLY" one.