Breakfast Topic: Who will dual specs benefit most?

By contrast, most of the hybrids to whom I've spoken see dual specs -- not as a competitive advantage, but rather as relief from the financial drain of constant respecs. 50g may not seem like a lot of money in Wrath's economy, but it adds up, to the point where you realize that the two hours you spent doing dailies will only net you about 20g after, say, respeccing to heal a heroic and then respeccing back to tank or DPS for the night's raid. Thus hybrids are equally resentful about the demands made on their time and e-wallet that pure classes don't have to worry about.
The end result seems to be that players talk through each other. Hybrids are focused on saving gold. Pures are concerned that their class is just not desirable enough in the absence of truly superior damage. Hybrids chafe under the cost of building multiple PvE gear sets to do a raid or group's most stressful jobs. Pures twiddle their thumbs on the sidelines in the knowledge that, once a group or raid's DPS slots fill up, they will be sat in favor of a worse player who can respec to do a needed job.
In the end I think pure classes, oddly enough, have the most to gain from the dual-spec system. Dual specs will allow pure DPS to maintain PvE and PvP specs without having to pay to shift between two sides of the game. And while I think many PvP-oriented hybrids will do the same, there is a very strong financial incentive for hybrids to dual-spec for the most requested PvE roles (tanking and healing), which will increase the supply of players available and willing to do these jobs in groups and raids. This is pretty much a win-win scenario for a pure class. The effect on hybrids, while still very positive, is going to be tempered by the fact that PvP specs (or possibly soloing specs) would remain an additional expense on top of the usual need to build, gem, and enchant multiple PvE sets.
Personally I intend to run with PvE tanking and resto builds once dual specs go live as these are (by far) the most requested roles of my main, but I'm curious to see what attitude players are going to bring to the new system.
*For the purpose of this discussion I should note that pure classes = Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, and Rogues. All other classes can all spec into at least two different roles for PvE.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Classes
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 10)
Defoe Jan 16th 2009 8:32AM
Personally my Druid will be switching from Cat dps spec to Bear (tank) spec, and I cant wait for this feature to go live so I can do this.
My Mage will probably swap between the current elemental spec and some kind of Arcane spec, just for a laugh.
Im looking forward to this change for both characters
KtCrash Jan 16th 2009 8:33AM
My main being a Paladin, I'm very much looking forward to it. I've been trying to heal runs in a Protection build because, well, usually I'm the only healer and/or tank on for our guild. And while I can heal in a Prot build with the right gear, being able to be Holy as well is going to be a huge boon.
Amaxe Jan 16th 2009 8:34AM
While I would like the dual spec so if need be I could backup heal, I am wondering whether for some classes it would be effectively giving them twice the talent points. A pure DPS class (like mage, rogue or hunter) for example could theoretically change to the most advantageous class at a moment's notice unless there were limitations as to how one changed (What's this? This boss is immune to my frost spec, no problem, I'll switch to my fire spec)
I've not heard what limitations this dual spec would have, but I hope there would be limitations to when you can change. Back in the GW days (I haven't been on there in a long time) I recall you could change what abilities you would use while in town and then you were stuck with them until you got back to town. I think a similar restriction (Inn only change) would be a good thing to add.
Arcaria Jan 16th 2009 9:23AM
Frostfire Bolt already eliminates the immunity problem that mages have prior to level 75. I think the more likely dual specs for mages would be switching from AE spec to single target specs during raids if they are just straight PVE'ers or the aforementioned PVE to PVP builds.
I'm personally hoping that the respec has a 1 hour cooldown unless done at a trainer just to keep people from respeccing for each and every fight during a run. That's what could truly squeeze out the pure classes over the hybrids.
Amaxe Jan 16th 2009 9:50AM
well the mage/frost thing was just used as an illustration which may have become inaccurate.. I could have said Hunter spec or rogue spec to make the same point. (BM hunter has exotic pets, but specs as MM until he needs pet, then switches. After the need is over, he switches back)
Some sort of cooldown would be good to avoid the insta-switch which effectively means 2x the talent points
Tilt Jan 16th 2009 1:13PM
Please, use the rogue example. "Hmm, looks like an AoE pull, I better switch my spec t... No... Oh, um, I have to sap a target in the midst of a bunch of other guys, so I can go Subt... No. Hmm. Well maybe after this I can go PvP!"
The only semi-plausable example for PvE is speccing from an Assassination build to a Combat build for Killing Spree + Blade Flurry, which is as close to AoE as rogues have (once every 2 minutes), discounting Fan of Knives which is just an energy drain, but must be used anyway.
Once the HAT bug gets fixed, what reason will PvE rogues have to care about dual specs? I do not PvP. I don't care about respeccing for it. If there's something really obvious I'm missing, I'd love to have someone clue me in.
Amaxe Jan 16th 2009 4:42PM
How many disputes are there over the best rogue build? I haven't played one in awhile so it may have changed, but back then it used to matter whether you were dagger spec or sword spec. Why choose if you can have both as needs be?
There is a difference between this and the hybrid class who may have to do many respecs (heals/dps for example). Back in TBC, my friend had to continually respec from Holy/Shadow to do different (instances vs grinding). He needed this double spec thing
Of course the whole warlock/rogue thing vs. the DK was predicted awhile back:
http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Peregrine2976/Introduction_of_the_Death_Knight
Tilt Jan 16th 2009 8:34PM
"...back then it used to matter whether you were dagger spec or sword spec..."
It still matters. Right now, apart from the HAT bug which I mentioned, Mutilate is what you are if you are a raiding rogue who at least passingly cares about being the best spec. Combat was what you were during TBC, but good daggers combined with multiple buffs in the tree means Lich King is all about Mutilate spec. Combat is good for levelling, but it is not quite as good as Mut with good gear.
So I still haven't seen you give an example? Why would I not choose the best DPS spec, when DPS is all I do?
For the record I acknowledge that this is a great and wonderful change for every other class, AND for rogues who PvP and PvE; however as a PvE-only rogue this change does not impact me. It's sort of like seeing 100 rogue PvP QQ threads every day when rogue PvE DPS gets nerfed due to PvP OPness. It just irks me.
Tilt Jan 16th 2009 10:04PM
Also I just read your link. You think I am complaining about DKs? I don't believe I ever have. I am not complaining about rogue DPS in the slightest, in this particular thread.
I actually sort of resent your implications.
Amaxe Jan 17th 2009 12:08AM
Given I was speaking generally, and you wanted to turn it into a debate on rogues, I'm not really interested in your misinterpretations of what I wrote.
Tilt Jan 17th 2009 4:23AM
Funny, you were the one who seemed so sure they could provide an example of how dual spec would be good for rogues in PvE, yet completely failed. I just asked for an example, and made the point of how you were wrong. But if you want to get all butthurt about it, no skin off my nose.
Amaxe Jan 17th 2009 8:20AM
Not hurt at all. Just annoyed that you seem to want to turn this into Rogue QQ when this is not the point. Given the fact that I pointed out above that rogues may have changed since I last used them and these spec differences mattered, your point is really OT.
Go back to my original point: Will there be restrictions for Dual Spec so a person cannot switch at will and effectively double his talent points?
If you think Rogues no longer qualify, fine. But don't try to derail it with an irrelevant Rogue QQ
Dave Jan 16th 2009 8:34AM
As a holy pally I am excited to be able to try either Ret or Prot for dailies, PvP or even the odd heroic ... but when it is raid time again I will be back to holy without a second thought. I like being holy, I want to be holy. The dual specs will let me mess around in between =D
Tremeroy Jan 16th 2009 8:40AM
The great thing about this system is that each person can choose a way to benefit.
e.g.
A hybrid interested in running heroics can spec tank / heals, since those are most in demand. Most of that person's switching will be done in a city, probably for free.
A raider can switch heals or tank to dps, depending on the requirements of the fight. It will be a bit more expensive because of the reagent cost, but aid in progression.
Any player, pure or hybrid, can choose to have a pvp and pve spec, switching depending on content.
Because hybrids are the classes that can take advantage of all the possible benefits of dual specs, I argue that they benefit the most. Nonetheless, I still think this is a great system for all classes.
Tzivya Jan 16th 2009 8:54AM
As a hunter, I am not fussed about dual specs. I think it is a good concept, but I do worry about this being another 'utility' for already utility-heavy classes. but with the incoming hunter nerfs, I confess to being pretty worried about my viability anyway. I have a great raid alliance I know will still slot me, but outside of that I think it's going to get a lot harder for hunters to get groups when dual specs come around.
That said, I think that a simple starting place for blizzard would have been to just remove respec fees. I've long held they were a bad thing. Put an hour cooldown on it, make it free, and you'd have a good start at respeccing being less onerous. And I would certainly benefit, since the few times I do respec I seem to manage to mess up clicking, and losing 50g for clicking the wrong box sucks. =)
James Riggs Jan 16th 2009 8:43AM
You guys assume the dual-specs will be free. They shouldn't be. This economy needs more money sinks as it is, and respecing is one of the most common.
Not that we'll ever see dual-specs. Yet another assumption being made: that dual specs are actually going to make it Live.
Eternauta Jan 16th 2009 9:13AM
/boooo!!!!!
If they're not free, they ar WORTHLESS!!!!
The purpose of dual specs for me, as a hybrid, is not having to spend money every time I want to switch between PvE and soloing.
I'm a casual player and I don't have the time to make 100-200g a day just to swich specs between raiding and dailies/farming.
I do agree that you shouldn't be able to switch specs in the middle of a raid, arena or bg; but they must be free!
mitch Jan 16th 2009 8:45AM
Yea I don't see what the pure DPS classes are worrying about.
For the most part, it's going to benefit healers and tanks who want to be able to spec their DPS tree either for a bit of fun or farming.
As a holy pally, I love healing and I very rarely go Ret or Prot however I am very keen to see dual specs utilised anyway.
For classes like priests, druids and shamans (caster spec), dual talents will be even sweeter because they can generally use their healing gear to dps in (not effective raid wise, but still fine for some PVP or soloing) and vice versa.
Kvothe Jan 16th 2009 8:52AM
The pure classes get to make a pvp and a pve spec once dual specing comes out (I'm assuming that will be the most likely scenario for most people). However, hybrids will have to use their specs for two different roles in many cases. I vote hybrids should get a triple spec to compensate.
Tushar Bharadia Jan 16th 2009 11:08AM
Nah, they should just give us 153 talent points.
Then I get to Bladestorm while dual-wielding two-handed shields (Shieldstorm?) :P