PuG dungeon loot etiquette for dummies Part II
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3. Know your Role for what you can roll on - For the most part, it's going to be expected that if you head into a dungeon in a certain role, you're only going to be rolling on loot that fulfills that role. This can be discussed individually in groups (generally it's best to do this before the group actually starts the dungeon), but for the most part, if you're the tank, stick to rolling on tank gear unless no-one in your group needs the DPS gear, and so on and so forth.
Now, there are admittedly a few hitches in this idea in Wrath if only because Blizzard has been working pretty hard to homogenize gear, making it unclear what's the healer gear and what's the damage caster gear and so forth. Knowing your class so that you know exactly which stats are better for you, so you can better judge when to roll and when to pass, can help with this. Of course, sometimes it's not even as clear cut as "This has Spirit, so I should pass," or "This has crit rating, so It'll be best for me," which brings us to our next point.
4. Be Flexible - Understand that there are going to be a few places where the line blurs on what loot is good for what role and what class, and you should be understanding of that blurring. People like getting loot, and sometimes what seems a bit off for them at first glance really isn't.
For example, let's say a cloth caster belt with plenty of spellpower and intellect drops. It turns out that it's a very nice upgrade for 3 people in the part: The Warlock, the Moonkin Druid, and the Paladin healer. Now, each group member may argue that there's reasons the others shouldn't get to roll. The Mage may say that the Paladin and Druid should stick to leather, for example. But in the end, Moonkins and Holy Paladins don't really need the extra armor class on a "higher level" of armor, and a cloth belt may actually be as good for them as any plate or leather belt they could get at the same level. In that case, it's probably for the best that all 3 get to roll on the belt, with the winner taking it graciously, and the losers looking forward to what drops off the next boss.
Likewise, if you're a Fury Warrior and have, say, a Death Knight tank in your group who's usually DPS but is going tank because the group really needs it, consider letting him roll on some of the DPS plate -- and of course, he should let you roll on the tank plate just in case you need to do the same in the future.
5. Be Courteous - This is sort of a companion to the above point. Just remember that there's other people in your group who have different needs and wants as far as loot, and think about them to some extent if you can. If a piece of loot is incredibly good for the Mage in your group and only so-so for you, consider passing. The Mage just may do the same for you on the next boss. If you've already gotten 2 or 3 pieces of really good loot on the run, consider letting someone else have a piece that just dropped. If you're a healer, and a nice cloth spellpower belt with hit rating on it drops, consider letting the DPS have it, since the hit rating is useful for them.
This isn't really something you absolutely have to do, of course, but at the least, getting a good reputation for yourself by being courteous can only help you, and at the least, will make good group members more likely to consider you for an extra group slot in the future.
6. Communicate - This is really the most important of the rules. While the rules up above are all good rules of thumb, and I firmly believe they won't steer you wrong, in the end what you really need to do is communicate. Before the group starts, set everything on the table. Establish the method of rolling for BoP and BoE gear, and establish who will be rolling for what rolls. Finding out that the Tank wants to roll on DPS gear before the instance so you can talk it over is better than a fight erupting midway through the instance because the tank just rolled on a piece of DPS gear.
Communication is what it really boils down to. Find a solution everyone can work with before the instance starts, and as long as everyone follows it cheerfully, you're probably in for a smooth run. Remember, everyone's there for their own reasons, but everyone likes a little loot now and then. Be considerate of others, and they'll be considerate of you. And if you do set up a nice agreeable loot system and don't get the piece you wanted, remember, it may drop for you next time, and if you're lucky, some of these puggies might remember that you were a good sport, and help you out on that run too.
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3. Know your Role for what you can roll on - For the most part, it's going to be expected that if you head into a dungeon in a certain role, you're only going to be rolling on loot that fulfills that role. This can be discussed individually in groups (generally it's best to do this before the group actually starts the dungeon), but for the most part, if you're the tank, stick to rolling on tank gear unless no-one in your group needs the DPS gear, and so on and so forth.
Now, there are admittedly a few hitches in this idea in Wrath if only because Blizzard has been working pretty hard to homogenize gear, making it unclear what's the healer gear and what's the damage caster gear and so forth. Knowing your class so that you know exactly which stats are better for you, so you can better judge when to roll and when to pass, can help with this. Of course, sometimes it's not even as clear cut as "This has Spirit, so I should pass," or "This has crit rating, so It'll be best for me," which brings us to our next point.
4. Be Flexible - Understand that there are going to be a few places where the line blurs on what loot is good for what role and what class, and you should be understanding of that blurring. People like getting loot, and sometimes what seems a bit off for them at first glance really isn't.
For example, let's say a cloth caster belt with plenty of spellpower and intellect drops. It turns out that it's a very nice upgrade for 3 people in the part: The Warlock, the Moonkin Druid, and the Paladin healer. Now, each group member may argue that there's reasons the others shouldn't get to roll. The Mage may say that the Paladin and Druid should stick to leather, for example. But in the end, Moonkins and Holy Paladins don't really need the extra armor class on a "higher level" of armor, and a cloth belt may actually be as good for them as any plate or leather belt they could get at the same level. In that case, it's probably for the best that all 3 get to roll on the belt, with the winner taking it graciously, and the losers looking forward to what drops off the next boss.
Likewise, if you're a Fury Warrior and have, say, a Death Knight tank in your group who's usually DPS but is going tank because the group really needs it, consider letting him roll on some of the DPS plate -- and of course, he should let you roll on the tank plate just in case you need to do the same in the future.
5. Be Courteous - This is sort of a companion to the above point. Just remember that there's other people in your group who have different needs and wants as far as loot, and think about them to some extent if you can. If a piece of loot is incredibly good for the Mage in your group and only so-so for you, consider passing. The Mage just may do the same for you on the next boss. If you've already gotten 2 or 3 pieces of really good loot on the run, consider letting someone else have a piece that just dropped. If you're a healer, and a nice cloth spellpower belt with hit rating on it drops, consider letting the DPS have it, since the hit rating is useful for them.
This isn't really something you absolutely have to do, of course, but at the least, getting a good reputation for yourself by being courteous can only help you, and at the least, will make good group members more likely to consider you for an extra group slot in the future.
6. Communicate - This is really the most important of the rules. While the rules up above are all good rules of thumb, and I firmly believe they won't steer you wrong, in the end what you really need to do is communicate. Before the group starts, set everything on the table. Establish the method of rolling for BoP and BoE gear, and establish who will be rolling for what rolls. Finding out that the Tank wants to roll on DPS gear before the instance so you can talk it over is better than a fight erupting midway through the instance because the tank just rolled on a piece of DPS gear.
Communication is what it really boils down to. Find a solution everyone can work with before the instance starts, and as long as everyone follows it cheerfully, you're probably in for a smooth run. Remember, everyone's there for their own reasons, but everyone likes a little loot now and then. Be considerate of others, and they'll be considerate of you. And if you do set up a nice agreeable loot system and don't get the piece you wanted, remember, it may drop for you next time, and if you're lucky, some of these puggies might remember that you were a good sport, and help you out on that run too.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Instances






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Zachery Egan Jan 18th 2009 12:07PM
The whole idea of "everyone pass and we'll figure it out" is SOOOOO vanilla wow.
It's really very simple, an item drops, if you need it for mainspec upgrade you hit need, if it's for offspec you hit greed, otherwise you pass.
If there is a DE'er, pass, and pick it up if noone else rolls. DE and roll for shards AT THE END OF THE RUN.
Dysi Jan 18th 2009 12:11PM
What Zachery said ^^^
Linden Jan 18th 2009 12:54PM
I dunno, pass and sort it out works well - its how our guild deals with BoP blues - it means you don't have to worry about the silly timer and that you have a chance to make your case before drama kicks off "because it is a good bit of dps gear" etc
you can still have drama after but people have less chance to moan about it :p
rolling shards from DE at the end is always a good idea though
Zerubbable Jan 18th 2009 1:08PM
I mostly agree with Zach except for one two things. First, I prefer to roll for shards right away because if we wait till the end, about half the time the DE'er just takes off with the shards whether on purpose or just because they forgot. Of course, this isn't as big a deal now with Dream Shards being with about as much as a piece of fecal matter...
Second, in most of my groups, people who want something for off-spec usually wait a bit to see if someone rolls need and if not, they ask if they can take it for off-spec. After about two people agree and no one else has rolled need, they need it and get it.
Kakistocracy Jan 18th 2009 2:01PM
Linden, in a heroic, I typically know what item(s) my character is hoping for, so before the fight, I've had plenty of time to inspect the other characters that could use it, and see if that character needs it more. Though, if you need an item from a heroic, chances are you have a blue in that slot too, so you need it just as much. In my experience (in heroics), there is more than enough time before the boss, and during the loot timer, to discuss whatever exigent circumstances affect who "deserves" the item. Now, in a raid, anything other than master loot will be trouble most of the time (not that master loot isn't trouble some times too).
Wyred Jan 19th 2009 2:50AM
I pass and roll in guild runs. Never in a pug
Konchu Jan 19th 2009 3:02PM
I simply need if I do pass if I dont and let the DE'er pick up the shards for the end. And if there is no DE then greeding all is easiest(and I generally pass after getting one vendor trash).
Passing though if you possibly want an item in a pug is a good way to lose an item to some greeding for vendor trash. Which is fine but not all groups make loot rules obvious and if everyone is going to pass then maybe the group needs master loot(which is overkill for 5 man). But if I want an item for offspec I simply take the courtious wait and see approach and see if any people needed it and shortly follow that with a say I would not mind that for my off spec if no one rolled on it and I get no answer or a go ahead I roll. That way I protect my option to roll on the item and no one has sore feelings.
And generally if an item is iffy but only one person needs it I tell them to take it to be safe but if its iffy and me and other person needs it I generally just let them have it if its not a huge upgrade for me.
Vazhkatsi Jan 20th 2009 12:06PM
I agree with zach. I've always been a fan of just needing it if its an upgrade, and if theres an enchanter, them greeding everything so we can roll on shards at the end. I've only ran into a problem with this once, where i rolled on a gem in a BC heroic, and the group informed me that their policy was pass then roll, and they then promptly kicked me out. so just to be safe, make sure you know what the rules are especially if the other 3-4 member all are guildies.
superwombat Jan 22nd 2009 6:19AM
Seriously, the roll timer takes an obnoxiously long time to count down in any case. Plenty of time for anyone to type "I'd like that for offspec" and someone else to reply "I'd use it for mainspec" and the first guy to say "OK, go ahead, it's all yours" and someone else to type "For petes sake roll need, we're already 3 trash packs ahead!"
FoxOfWar Jan 18th 2009 12:10PM
This is so true.
If only the hunter had read this sort of post before the Slave Pens I was healing about a week ago.
Maybe then he wouldn't have insisted "I need the crit" when he rolled on int/sta/crit/spellpower cloak in front of me and a shadow priest.
Maybe then wouldn't have had to try and explain later that "I'm not a ninja, hunters do use spellpower, ask any hunter around..."
Pfft.
jrb Jan 18th 2009 2:24PM
i do wish other hunters wouldn't be such tards. Its only fueling the "its hunter loot!" meme, and genuine belief that hunters are loot whores.
it wouldn't be so bad if, at least in northrend, any decent mail items for hunters dropped, ever. It's all +spellpower. An imtem may buffing three stats and one of them is spellpower i'll pass or greed for gold, even if the other two stats are meaning the item's better for me.
Yes, +spellpower CAN positively affect a hunter, but is it the stat we should be going for? No, and that hunter sucks because of it, especially if there were other people in the group that needed it more.
Raval Jan 18th 2009 12:21PM
I completely disagree that Moonkins and Pallys should be rolling on cloth. They have their own loot tables, chock full of leather and plate, that cloth casters can't roll on.
Ed (Sindarin, Hydraxis US) Jan 18th 2009 12:46PM
I'm a Holy Paladin who is not impartial to wearing the odd piece of cloth every now and then, and I completely agree with you Raval.
If I and any cloth wearing class needed a cloth item, I would immediately pass it to them, as I feel it would be quite rude considering I have my own plate loot tables I can always take.
Kassu Jan 18th 2009 12:48PM
So true.
Nobody cares if it's a upgrade statwise. You get your own set of loot that no clothie can use and then you want to go rolling on all the caster leather and cloth too? I dont think so...
ShadowMagus Jan 18th 2009 12:48PM
As a pally healer, I do keep my paws off anything other than plate, but that's more out of pride than anything else. I'd rather be wearing big menacing scary armor around town than some dress, and I've never really had a problem with having enough spellpower or int.
There's more than enough healer plate out there for me, and I'm assuming there's more than enough caster leather as well. Leave the cloth for the clothies.
ganchara Jan 18th 2009 12:54PM
moonkins roll on cloth because there isn't any leather other than t7/t7.5 that has hit rating on it
trombone Jan 18th 2009 9:58PM
@Ganchara (#12)
I am a Moonkin, who was hit capped pre Naxx in leather + the odd bit of reputation or badge cloth. In fact, now I am in Naxx, I am having trouble dropping hit.
You do not need to roll on Cloth hit gear, there are trinkets, necks, rings and weapons/OH gems etc that all have sufficient hit to hit the soft cap.
I never ever roll take cloth while there is a clothie who could benefit - that would be double dipping and terribly unfair.
Stop being a loot whore and giving Moonkin a bad name, there are plenty of options and you re just being lazy/greedy. Take your pick.
Konchu Jan 19th 2009 4:26PM
I think its a balancing act really. And everyone should be respectful on the armor type when classes that can wear it are there. Clothies do get the shaft a little cause all casters can wear their armor. But all cloth classes are casters so on the same coin a pally has all his armor drops split between tanks and DPS and same for Shaman and same for Druids and its this lack of ideal pieces that make some people go this route. I personally thinks its not wise to stray too far from your base armor type cause a pally in cloth has worse survivabilty than a preist short of bubbling which is not a problem if they don't get hit but being prepared is good to.
I personally would always give the cloth to a clothie in almost all upgrade situations. I could see myself as a leather wearer passing on a piece of leather to say a hunter or shaman if it was a iffy upgrade for me.
Thodin Jan 18th 2009 12:21PM
Telling everyone to pass is a surefire way for something to get ninjaed from you. Roll need on what you need. Simple as that.
doit Jan 18th 2009 12:24PM
unfortunately i've almost never played with anyone that observed any of these rules... also on boe's i feel everyone should greed for the most part since it's like basically gold is dropping but there are exceptions to this.