Dual specs and the importance (or not) of saving gold
While reading through comments on the site the other day,* I stopped at Drak's on a recent Breakfast Topic and had to think for a bit. In defense of pure classes' concerns with the upcoming dual spec system, Drak wrote that we were weighing class functionality against hybrids' desire to save gold, and that the two concerns were by no means equal. I'm still convinced that pure classes stand to gain a lot more from dual specs than they'll lose, principally in the form a lot more tank and healer availability, but it's an interesting point. How much gold do you really need to get by? Does the idea of having to spend a lot more of it, or having to spend more time getting it, on a particular class or spec make that character less fun to play, and has that played a role peoples' unwillingness to tank and heal?
Again, for the purpose of this discussion I'm considering pure classes to be Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, and Rogues, as everyone else can respec to do different roles.
At first, it doesn't seem like the question merits a lengthy answer. "Take what you're spending per week, divide it by 7, and then do dailies until you've got it covered" would be a terse and accurate means of responding to it, but personally I do think a certain amount of the issue's driving the debate over dual specs.
A hybrid who constantly respecs without recourse to outside assistance is someone who has to spend a lot more time in the game to make the same amount of gold as someone who doesn't have to respec frequently (if at all). And "So don't respec if you don't want to," isn't always a good answer, not with the legions of impatient people in LFG. We can't simultaneously acknowledge the healer shortage but scoff at the people who respec to cover it -- and I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that people in healing and tanking specs don't quest or grind as efficiently as a DPS spec, further compounding the problem.**
The conclusion seems pretty straightforward; a hybrid who respecs a lot, or who is constantly specced for tanking or healing over damage, is virtually obligated to play the game less casually than a pure DPS if they want to stay on comparable financial ground. I think this does play a role in how many people want to tank or heal, or can if their playtime is limited -- and that necessarily bleeds into the chronic tank and healer shortage.
But a pragmatist would opine that as long as you've got enough to cover the game's true necessities -- repairs, food/water, reagents, and a basic flying mount -- everything else is gravy. Making gold in the game shouldn't have to be a goal in and of itself, right?
A smarter pragmatist would belt the first pragmatist in the chops and ask him why he didn't save some gold toward an epic flyer, decent enchants, and the kind of gear that'll keep deaths and downtime to a minimum. A hybrid pragmatist would stifle a bitter laugh, and then double or triple the smart pragmatist's figures on enchant and gear costs in order to cover a tanking set, a healing set, or quite possibly both. With a minimal amount of effort, every player in the game should easily cover their living expenses with gold left over to bank. But while writing this, it's hard not to remember the 1,400g I dropped on gems and enchants for my Resto set, and the week I spent 700g on respecs. If I were still saving for my epic flyer or another big expense, that would have been a pretty demoralizing experience. I consider it a great privilege to be able to respec to do something else on my Druid -- but I think it's also easy to underestimate both the high cost of said privilege and the time it takes to learn how to play each spec effectively.
*Yes, we do actually read our comments, although I have had to downsize the cabana boy who was until recently employed in reading them aloud to me while making crépes. Such are the troubled times in which we live.
**Feral Druids and Death Knights obviously have a much easier time with this.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Classes, Making money
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 7)
Thalium Jan 19th 2009 3:18PM
I don't mind paying to respec that much. Heal instances for a level or so, at least until I get all the drops I want from them, then switch back to DPS spec to quest grind until you're high enough for the next tier of dungeons, then rinse and repeat. I'm just not thrilled about re-buying all the damn glyphs over and over again.
SBKT Jan 19th 2009 4:02PM
They mentioned including second glyph sets too, I do believe.
Thalium Jan 19th 2009 4:08PM
Yep. I was more pointing out that until that time comes, the biggest challenge I have with respecs are re-buying the glyphs.
Perrier Jan 19th 2009 3:19PM
I have given up respeccing on my Resto Shaman until dual specs get here. And, I refuse to do dailies as Resto, so I am making ZERO gold on my main atm. (Well, I do the Wrymrest dailies because you are on a dragon and spec doesn't matter).
It just wasn't worth it to spend 50g a day, changing talents, changing gear... to make a couple hundred doing dailies. Instead I'm leveling my alts through Northrend and I'm making a lot more gold that way. It's just a little sad that my alts are supporting my main...
Taladan Jan 19th 2009 3:23PM
Same here with my paladin. I just love PvP holy too much to spec prot for dungeons and whatever.
Valkyrin Jan 19th 2009 4:17PM
Seriously, stop it, there's a crap load of dailies that have nothing to do with fighting.
4 of the 6 ebon blade dailies don't matter what spec you. You fly around on a griffin, shoot people until they die, turn them into undead. You use a turret to shoot down dragon riders. You ride a dragon to turn buildings on fire.
All 3 wormcrest dailies are either on dragons, or require no fighting at all as long as you place yourself right.
The frosthold daily, fly around on a griffin killing dragons
the Hodir dailies do require a bit of killing without help, but at least one of them does not.
The patrol and bombing missions in HF, no killing.
the argent crusade daily in ZD is annoying as hell so let's not include that, but very little killing there.
The kaluak dailies in Borean and Dragonsblight require minimal killing. 4 mobs to get at the pups you need is hardly a toil, and the incidental level 70 mobs you have to kill for the Borean daily isn't worth mentioning.
If you went frenzy heart, picking up chickens hardly requires work.
Back to icecrown, both bombing dailies, no fighting.
So please, stop it when you say that you can only do the wyrmcrest dailies, there's a crapload of them out there to make money with.
0bsolete Jan 19th 2009 3:58PM
Thats what I'm at. I'm a resto shaman and after about two weeks of doing dailies every day, I finally just gave up. It could take me two or three hours just to do my "vital" rep dailies. Sons of Hodir, A couple that add to the Warsong Offensive, and Wyrmrest accord. I've been just leveling my alt until dual specs get here. Hopping onto my shaman every now and again to see if the AH is in a state where I can make some money and help some guidies gear a bit. Its painful now.
Angrypants Jan 19th 2009 3:20PM
As a pure dps I look forward to dual specs, one for single target dps (raid) and another for pvp or aoe. As a hybrid the benefits are obvious.
I find irony in the fact that respeccing has become even more expensive, now in addition to the trainer's fee we have to spend between 5-100g on new glyphs every time we go at it.
Peridan Jan 19th 2009 4:28PM
I agree with protoster. I'm not sure why there is an assumption that pure classes won't be helped directly by dual specs. I play a Mage and lock and I'm very excited about getting a pvp and pve spec
bongato Jan 19th 2009 7:16PM
Not all of us pure classes PvP (or PvE for that matter). In hybrid vs pure and the dual specc addition, it seems nearly always taken for granted we do both. That is just not a correct assumption for the vast majority of my own guild at least.
Peridan Jan 19th 2009 7:33PM
bongato: And not all hybrid classes want to switch specs. The point is the direct advantage is not just to hybrid classes. Pure classes have an advantage too.
And if you don't want a PVP and PVE spec then you can have a group and raid spec. Or a solo and group spec. Whatever. The point is there is enough difference in styles of plays for pure classes that there is a direct advantage to them too.
Taladan Jan 19th 2009 3:22PM
I don't think the dual-spec is necessary for pure classes but, at the same time, it will give those classes a chance to try different things. You know, you're a frost mage, doing amazing damage, everybody loves you but you always had some curiosity about arcane. So, there you go! You can try it just because you have a free spec just waiting to be used.
Also, after years trying to spec properly, you managed to understand your class and build the ultimate spec tree. It's your precious thing. But, with the other spec just waiting there, you can mess with it, try some small changes without breaking your current spec.
Mindreaver Jan 19th 2009 3:25PM
I am one of three healers in my guild. We're all pretty close, and we raid about 3 or 4 times a week, depending if we PuG something together.
Our problem is, all three of us love healing but also love playing together. Whenever we decide to run a heroic together, we have to either spend 100g to respec, or we can take an alt (if we've leveled that much), or we can just go heal separate groups. We'd have the same problem if we were all tanks... two have to respec to run with their friends.
Now all three of us farm enough crap, and have enough decent professions (JC/herb, amirite?) that the 2/3 respecs a week don't really factor in that much. This change, will be quite nice, as I can rack up more gold. Woot. Yay. More Gold. Pfffffffffft.
But was it needed? Not really. Is it a nice bonus for us? Yep. Makes it easier to play with who I want to play with, even if we are both healers or both tanks.
I don't have any sympathy for the rogue who has to respec once a week to do arena. That is just the price of getting the most out of pvp and pve.
I have no sympathy for people who just want to switch between two dps specs. Or even two different healing specs. Thats just the cost of doing whatever it is you are doing, that you feel you have to. If your guild is making you, they should pay for it anyway.
Cyanea Jan 19th 2009 3:28PM
I'm really not seeing where or why "pure DPS" classes feel they can't benefit from this. I know, personally, that I'm looking forward to the system incredibly, and I'm a Warlock.
Everyone has those handful of talents that they picked up because it helps them solo quests, but have no real use in an instance/raid. Like...I have points in Improved Fear in the Affliction tree. It's great when I'm soloing, because if I dot something up and fear them, the snare at the end ensures that they RARELY make it back to me alive. I run around with my Felhunter while questing, but pull out my Imp when in an instance (unless there's a Destro Lock, and then I pull out my Felhunter for the buff, but leave him on passive). So I'd love to drop the points I have in Improved Felhunter.
I'd love to put points into Eradication in the Affliction tree for instances because that's the only time I'm ever chaincasting spells with a cast time. Same with talents like Bane or Destructive Reach that I drop in favor of survivability while questing (yes, I'm eighty but I still do plenty of questing. Working on Loremaster.)
So count me in as one of the people eagerly anticipating Dualspecs.
allyouneedisewan Jan 19th 2009 3:29PM
Protoster, a lot of players never pvp or do so casually. It will be a big deal for pure classes as well, but will make a much, much bigger impact on hybrids. And I agree with Jeff--the convience of dual specs is really exciting.
Sirg Jan 19th 2009 3:29PM
As a rogue I'm happy that I won't have to respec in order to PvP, thus I'll do more of that when I want. As a casual player 50 g is more to me than for the usual player who does 20 dailies, farms and sells in the AH... So it's a good thing.
Eternauta Jan 19th 2009 3:30PM
Am I the only one that worries about respec costs?
tacjunkie13 Jan 19th 2009 3:31PM
I would have to agree coming from the Prot pali on a PVP server that its not so much just changing specs between Ret and Prot that we want. I am MT for my guild on all raids but come arena teams of BG's I am for the most part totally worthless. And forget about world PvP. Speaking about the 50 gold to respec costs as the only costs for respecs please think it through. Saying thats all it takes is a joke since the advent of Glyphs, we are buying 6 new glyphs every respec if you want to be viable in both PvP and PvE.
Daniel Jan 19th 2009 3:34PM
My main is a high level druid (not quite 80) and in all my time in game I have never paid a single gold piece for a respec. Ever. On the other hand, my highest level alt is mage and I have paid to resspec him. Once because I goofed with talents and once to switch to arcane.
I think there are a lot of justifications for implementing duel specs that frankly are out of touch with reality. I believe that dual specing is very bad for the game, although I do concede that it is completely in line with the way Blizzard is moving the game as a whole so it doesn't surprise me.
In short, I don't think that gold is a particular problem. The real problem is people who are too lazy to go and get the help they need; it's easier to demand that a raid member respec. You should be able to play the game and paly it well without ever to having to respec ever. People respec it because they are lazy, not because it has to be done.
Mindreaver Jan 19th 2009 3:43PM
I LoL'd
Grats on being fucking perfect. So sorry the rest of us getting it right the first time.
Oh, and we aren't lazy. It is silly to think that your playstyle won't change as you level.
Unless you are a level 20 casual. In which case, you're right, this probably don't matter to you.