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1-19-2009 @ 2:22PM
A few things from me : 1: People need to drop this stigma that 'people who ask for positions of responsibility' only do so with malevolent intentions. If someone WANTS to do a -JOB- for a 'game' you should give them the chance. 2: Promoting people that never ask, leads eventually to resentment of said positions.. they didn't ask to be responsible for these things, even though their natural inclinations might be to do such things.. this shouldn't be taken as indication that these people desire such responsibility. It also builds resentment among those who make their desire to be in leadership obvious , do all the right things, yet never receive a promotion because they 'ask' for it. 3: Assuming that the problem is WITH the Officers alone. This to me is the biggest mistake many Guild Leaders (and Corporate managers) make when faced with declining interest in a position from a Officer or Worker. Managers assume the issues always lay with the workers, not with their leadership, or the way other things are set up, whats going at home, whats going at work, and what other people are doing in relation to them. Calling any of it "Discipline" only puts the connotation on the Worker/officer that they are unequivocally doing something wrong, when they may never see it as 'wrong' only doing what they are able, or what they feel is fair. COMMUNICATION.... if you don't want to talk or listen to people, then... your guild and Business' WILL fail. Bet on it.
1-19-2009 @ 3:17PM
Actually, it's not really a stigma, but the truth.People who usually asked to be made an officer do so for personal gain. I have seen several difference for-instances where people demanded a position and when they didn’t get it they left the guild. Well. If you’re so much into helping the guild and being a good person, why leave the guild when you didn’t get what you wanted? Because the position request was a selfish one. Every person I’ve seen asked for the position did so because they just wanted the title. I've seen a lot of people in my 3 and half years of wow and most of the time those who have asked for the position were 1. not ready for it 2. just wanted it cuz it the "cool" thing to do 3. wanted to be with the "in crowd" but would never do any of the work 4. felt they needed to be an officer just to validate themselves, but in effect had no clue what to do and didn't bother to learn.Most of the officers in the guild I'm in don't do much either in terms of the little things, BUT they know what and how to behave in a raid, they know how to handle people, they know how do the things that most people are too lazy to learn. They know the other half of the coin - management skills. However we recently had someone asked to be made an officer - more like demand it because he assumed officer status proved his loyalty to the guild. We rectified the demand by creating a new rank tab which pacified the ingrate for the time being, but it has raised a lot of resentment for the rest of officers for the simple fact that the person demanding this position 1. hasn't bothered to learn to play his hunter (he has to go over his talent tree with the GM (more than twice)) 2. always asks for help for items/locations etc 3. always pesters people for runs and stuff when a simple G tab click would tell him people are. He doesn't LEAD, but is a sheep and needs to be told what to do.In my opinion, if an officer has to hold his hand and he asks to be made an officer then we might as well promote everyone.
1-19-2009 @ 3:31PM
I need to add that people who are helpful and don't ask for the position are approached and asked if they want to be an officer. In addition to that, they have the choice to turn it down. They don’t have to take it.But lets think about this. At least the person asked is 1. appreciated 2. realizes that what he does in the guild is noticed. And if they accept the position, well then, you have someone who is going to get the work done. The person who demands the position and gets it.. What does that person learn? If you yell loud enough you get handed everything. Now that would make me resentful. If anyone walked along and said, “Hey give me give me give me,” and was given the position, I would be angry.
1-19-2009 @ 4:01PM
You're clearly generalizing based on very limited experience with a game. (I have an equal amount of exp with this game, as well as well over 15 years of exp in professional settings, both as a worker, and a manager. Frankly, you don't come off like a very trust-worthy person yourself, as you seem to always assume that anyone who would make their intentions known is obviously pandering for power, and to me that means all you're interested in is securing your own, and making sure no one else is a direct challenge to you. If this sort of thinking actually worked, there would be no drama, no turnover in jobs or guilds, There would be no bad employees, and no bad employers. Lets be realistic here, I know there are people that fit the bill, no matter whats on said bill. There are people that will choose to exploit situations, no matter what the situation, but applying that stigma to everyone - regardless is where most managers/GL get into trouble. If I were an officer in YOUR guild, I'd probably /gquit because it's clear that you're deeply suspicious of anyone that makes their intentions known. What you want aren't free thinking officers, you want sheep that will blindly bleat along with whatever command you give them, and not challenge your own authority, and thats all any power structure is designed to do, maintain power for those at the top. Of course you're not going to be more willing to promote someone who might actually have the drive to do more than you, and that's where this stigma that you can only promote people that don't want the positions or openly desire said positions comes from. You use these people because they are weak of mind and will, and NO ONE does something for nothing, not even you (as exampled by your suspicion, and need to control things based on a few situations which you then exploit yourself to maintain your own power base. I know how that 'game' is played, you're not fooling anyone.
1-19-2009 @ 4:14PM
And I'll also add, if the preservation of power, and title didn't matter, there would be no ranks, no designation, and no one in 'charge'.. as the people would simply all 'do what was required'. Equally, if the intentions you speak were true, you'd be willing to simply hand over your rank, or abolish them entirely. But again, the proof is in 'that a power structure exists' . I currently guild with guys I've been gaming with for well over 5 years now, many even longer. About 10 of them I see in real life at the very least once or twice a week. We've been friends since childhood. The only reason we even have ranks is so people know who to seek out IF one is needed. Otherwise, we are all essentially the same rank, we are all equals, and rank is used less as a structure for power, and more for managing things like the GB, and who gets what from drops. (Yeah we are also loot council) Anyways, it's clear to me that all the 'old ways' and adherence to these old stigmas about volunteers and appointees must be true, because just about every guild I see that maintains such falls apart and is rife with drama and garbage from the natural power struggle created by those who seek power. Afterall, why did you start a guild? To be a peon, or the one in power?
1-19-2009 @ 5:07PM
"Promoting people that never ask, leads eventually to resentment of said positions.. "Yeah, I think this is a failing in a lot of guilds. I've been promoted to an officer in every guild I've been in. I have no idea why. I never asked. In fact the last one I asked to be demoted. People can be quite helpful and supportive of the guild while just being a regular member - which is what I would prefer to stay. I think just promoting people often leads to deadbeat officers because they didn't really want (or choose) to be one in the first place. Always ask!
1-24-2009 @ 12:45AM
To be honest very often people say they want to be officer only for the title. In my guild now i was formerly just a member. But just after 1 month i had joined it. There were some internal problems. Our main tank had some arguing with our GM and he decided to leave. And since he was a good tank and people had enjoyed playing with him.(Was even a bit creepy because people talked about him as he was the only tank wich was good in the game) Very many left with him. About 20-30 people. We were about 70 in the guild at that time.And GM opened Class leaders positions. I said I could try to do the job. With no former experience from guild leadership. So I started recruiting people. And it was fun. It was fun to be able to make a change for the good of all. And after some time I was promoted to officer and are doing more jobs to fulfill the need of the guild. Now we are raiding 25 man naxx and no drama in the guild so far.. So with a step of the time you can come further. Then they will really see if you want to do something for the guild. Not only get the title "Officer". Wich brings along some work.Peace out
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