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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news15 Minutes of Fame: Playin' it old school
by Lisa Poisso 
Jan 20th 2009 at 11:00AM
Upcoming Raids
Zul'Gurub (Farm)
Ahn'Qiraj (20) (Farm)
Molten Core (10/10 Farm)
Blackwing Lair (2/8)
Onyxia (Farm)
Azuregos (Farm)
ZG (Farm)? Blackwing Lair (2/8)?! LOL wut?!? We've written before about players who love to chow down on some good, old-fashioned retro WoW content, avidly mixing original instances with the latest hotness from Wrath. Heralds of Yore from Smolderthorn takes that idea to the next level: not only do they specialize in old-school content, they do it as intended – at level 60.
Why would a guild put two entire game expansions on /ignore? Hearken back to the days of "vanilla WoW" with 15 Minutes of Fame and Heralds of Yore, after the break.
Main character BlotterGuild Heralds of Yore
Server Smolderthorn
WoW player since 2006
Games played pre-WoW Warcraft, Starcraft, Age of Empires, Guild Wars
Games played besides WoW There are other games?
15 Minutes of Fame: Blotter, tell us about the appeal of focusing on legacy content. What's the draw?
Blotter: To me, the expansions that were released by Blizzard in no way met my expectations that I had for them. First and foremost, PvP (which is one of my favorite aspects of WoW) is a lot worse off. The implementation of resilience ratings has ruined PvP, in my opinion. To me, it seems Blizzard has increased everything too much: higher levels, bigger crits, bigger health, bigger mana, etc., etc. I think they should have left us at level 60 and released more and more content.
Also, the instances are much nicer at 60. AQ is one of my favorite places in the entire World of Warcraft. I do not feel The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King have delivered as creative of content. Hell, Naxxramas was so great they even reused it -- to my dismay. BC and WotLK just seemed to be sub-par to me, and I have more fun when I am playing level 60 end game.
Wrath is also very, very easy, and people are clearing the content in record time. Before, when people tried to raid Molten Core right after it came out, they were lucky to clear the Firelords. The game has become a little too watered down.
So how long has HoY been raiding level 60 content?
HoY started as Nova in September 2007 and became Heralds Of Yore in November 2007. A small break was taken when patch 3.0 released, due to people going inactive (from us) for their once-again bigger crits and more health.
So do HoY members have BC and Wrath installed -- or is that strictly forbidden?
You have to be on a non-BC account. It keeps people from leveling up from raids, shows that the member is actually serious about raiding pre-BC content and is just an all-around safeguard to not have people level. It is hard to tell if people aren't on vanilla accounts. We go on the honor system.
Are most of your members already familiar with the legacy content?
I would say around 80% of all HoY members raided level 60 content pre-BC. We do have a few people joining who have not experienced pre-BC before, and we also have members who have only experienced pre-BC content. Currently, we run about 25 people in 40-man raids. We struggle with many of the encounters, though, due to low numbers.
Have you yourself played through BC content? What about Wrath?
Yes, I have extensively played BC and Wrath. I did not quit playing these expansions after a few short weeks. I was in a top raiding guild on my server and had everything going for me, at 80 especially -- I just did not enjoy the experience.
Do you see a faster learning curve in raids because most players have more WoW and overall gaming experience than when this early content was first being played?
I do. Also, the new talents and DPS increases make the fights easier to do with fewer numbers. That helps us a lot.
We are currently progressing through Blackwing Lair, so I guess that is our short-term goal -- but for long-term, yes, it is AQ-40. Even though we no longer have Naxx to raid, AQ-40 and BWL are still plenty of great pre-BC content.
I can only hope that one day a pre-BC server is opened, so I can once again enter the fortress of the great lich Kel'thuzad. And if you know anyone at Blizzard, can you please send them a nasty note saying Blotter wants Naxx back! I think it was a huge mistake to eliminate content that they put in the game at 60. It is a stupid move to make something, then move it to Northrend. This eliminated such a large chunk of the game they developed. For what reason? In my opinion, pure laziness, greediness -- or both. But it does leave a void for retro raiders like myself, knowing that I can never wear my Frostfire, but I can see 80s running in it all day.
Do any of your players have access to BC- or Wrath-era items?
BC and Wrath items are not allowed in our raids. When you enter PvP Battlegrounds or do PuGs, you can wear whatever you want. During raids, though, all gear must be pre-BC. Enchant rules have become rather lax due to the gold many members have spent on their enchants, but players are encouraged to use all pre-BC enchants on all items they receive in HoY raids.
How can interested players best get in touch to find out more?
You can visit our web site or you can watch the BC content video I made. It will show you the epicness of pre-BC content!
Late last night as we prepared this feature for posting, we received a last, brief missive from Blotter: "Broodlord Lashlayer down!" Grats, guys, and may your raid groups fill with a full 40.
"I never thought of playing WoW like that!" -- neither did we, until we talked with these players. Check out a whole year's worth of player profiles in our "15 Minutes of Fame: Where are they now?" retrospective.Filed under: Guilds, Expansions, Features, Raiding, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, 15 Minutes of Fame
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Will Jan 20th 2009 4:14PM
Donkey Kong 64, hell yeah
hold up Jan 20th 2009 11:50AM
Different? Yes. Better? Nah.
People really need to stop hating Wrath so much. We are at the beginning of an expansions cycle. You can say that Naxx may have been a cheap starter instance since it was moved and tuned for 80, but Blizzard figured "We designed this great instance and less than 10% of the entire WoW population has seen it, why don't we re-introduce it so everyone can see it."
Plus the Malygos and Sartharion encounters are fantastic. I don't like the way the Malygos key works, I think that everyone in the raid should be able to get "attuned" when killing Sapphiron, but whatever.
I love that Wrath is easier so far. There is so much to do in game and if I don't have to spend 4 days a week progressing on raid content it leaves me time to do whatever I want. I realize you can't brag about your gear anymore and show off that way, but you have something even more visible - achievement rewards. My guild is the only guild on our server to have the "of the Nightfall" achievement. When I walk through Dalaran I constantly get asked how I got that achievement. If you really need your epeen stroked go do the game on hard mode and stop complaining how much the new content disappointed you.
Nick S Jan 20th 2009 11:52AM
These guys are on my server. I've never completely understood their reasons for staying vanilla (and still don't, having read this) but they're a fun group to hang out with.
They hosted some open raids on old content for anyone who wanted to come a while back, and it was a pretty good time.
paul.marsico Jan 20th 2009 11:53AM
I hope Ulduar is better. But to say BC content was lame is ridiculous.
Sunwell was arguably the best instance they ever put together.
Black Temple was fun. However, in my mind, neither of them compared to stepping into Kael'thas at 70 in T5 gear and learning that fight.
Or the first time I saw Phase 2 hit on Lady Vashj (O.O).
That was epic. Vashj was a 40 man with 25 and Kael was a check to make sure you knew how to play your to0n.
Unfortunately, with the convergence of gear of 3.0, I don't really think any of this stuff, even holding level 60 via not installing BC or Wrath, will enable you to truly enjoy what once was.
BrotherGrymm Jan 20th 2009 11:59AM
IMHO a re-tuned Heroic Deadmines would be win all the way. Just keep the low level version and no one would ever complain!
Antonia Jan 20th 2009 12:00PM
I'm all for people doing what they want but seriously why throw it in our faces? the guy is acting like all of us who have moved on from raiding that stuff are throwing it in his face that he is in the past and not with all of us now. comments like this prove that: "But it does leave a void for retro raiders like myself, knowing that I can never wear my Frostfire, but I can see 80s running in it all day."
the only void here is the gap between 60 and 80 that he's missing..
and if he and his guild had MONTHS if not years to rush to see naxx before it left, what took them so long? 25people would take just as long to gear there as it would in the wow we're all playing.. my guild zipped through BC endgame in 3 or 4 months.. it can be done.. he could have been in "his" frostfire set.. yet not using "his bolt" i guess
and what about him saying: "Yes, I have extensively played BC and Wrath. I did not quit playing these expansions after a few short weeks. I was in a top raiding guild on my server and had everything going for me, at 80 especially -- I just did not enjoy the experience."
are we supposed to all suffer for him not liking what 99.9% of us are enjoying now? foolishness. and again he just throws it in our face.. this whole article is about striking back at us for moving on with our lives.
and as people have said above, even him, all the talents are different.. the classes are vastly different.. hell there's even a new CLASS that will probably be raiding with them if they allow it.. will they ban people from playing that class, I BET THEY WILL!... its a jerkish move too to claim that they're doing something so righteous when they aren't even playing how we all did back then either, forced or not
whatever.. i hope he likes AQ 40.. I'm sure all the bugs on C'thun are still there, actually I'm mostly positive about that. him and his under filled raid can have fun wiping on that for years..
I wish these people would just quit their crap and let us all just play.
Valkuria Jan 20th 2009 12:59PM
"I wish these people would just quit their crap and let us all just play."
I dont see this guild hindering you in any way. I see this guild doing what they enjoy. I see you insulting them for enjoying WoW. None of the comments made are supposed to be directed at anyone. Naxx was moved for they 90% of players that never got to experience the challenge at 60. Now why Naxx couldnt have remained on Eastern Kingdom and stay in Northrend is another matter entirely and I'm pretty sure thats what the person being interviewed was attempting to communicate.
The Pre-BC thing is a wonderful idea. Especially if you dont enjoy arena for whatever reason. Maybe you are so sick of WoW that you wonder why you log in day after day if only to communicate with the friends that you make on WoW. World of Warcraft is extremely repetitive between arenas, farming, rep grinds, dailies, and heroics. For some people, this idea saved them from quiting.
I'm sure this guild doesnt think they are better than anyone. I'm sure they feel like the world is against them and that most people wouldnt hesitate to put them down should the opportunity arise. I'm sure they have experienced 80's telling them how bad they are and that they are too poor to buy wrath or too inept to do sartharion 3-drakes.
This guild is just like any other. Like a twink guild, like a casual raider guild, like a hardcore raiding guild, like a pvp focussed guild, like *YOUR* guild. They are just trying to have fun.
Antonia Jan 20th 2009 2:42PM
Yes, thank you, i love that you can read the end of my comment but not the beginning..
i said I'm all about them, and every one, being able to do what they want and i don't really care TILL they decide to start burning bridges and have us all read their QQ about how they're a dying breed and need their own servers because of it. perhaps one called "graveyard"?.. like catering to that 1% is something that blizzard does.
look at raiding as a whole. blizzard made it easier only to pull in more people then just the 10% or so that do it without being told its easy. not at all catering to those who want a bigger challenge in that 10 or so percent.
the whole part about the frostfire set is, again, the prime example to what I'm, and many others are, saying. He's pretty saying that we shouldn't have a tier because he didn't get it when it was in the game the first time. we shouldn't run around in front of him with it and be proud of the time we put in for it no matter how great or small. But its fine for him to run around in the T2 that he's gotten that many others wont see at all? how is that fair? if we go by that logic no one would have T7 at all cause not many people even got attuned for Naxx back in the day let alone stepped inside it.
furthermore he states that moving this wonderful masterpiece of an instance to northrend so more people could see for themselves how cool it was rather then watching old fraped youtube videos was a mistake..that we need to tell them "blotter wants it back".. not just so he and his guild can run it but because he and his guild have never run it at all in the first place. he's telling us that we all need to experience naxx not really to experience it at all, but to do it his way and not the way blizzard is intending us too..
we had a good 3 years or so to do that, just like he and any one in his guild did, even in BC. just as I stated nothing stopped him then just like nothing stopped us. even the high price of attunement was easily had with the resources in BC. one could take themselves from neutral to exalted with argent dawn in just a few weeks if they wanted to bad enough to make that attunement even cheaper and none of it would go against their code of doing new(er) content. they could have saved a TON of gold up considering all they'd be paying was the, now, small vanilla repair bills..
and really if they only do old content then wouldn't they have been most of the way there? they're probably all exalted or near exalted with the waterlords like most of us old schoolers are because of the need to farm MC for the gear we needed to move on, why would farming Strat or scholo be any different? they got nothing better (or new) to do.
but really just because blizzard builds it doesn't mean every one will come, he and his guild proves that by not even trying to in the first place when it was there to do.
seriously thats the crap i'm talking about, he's standing on a soap box like most of the people in these guilds do saying how "I wants what I wants and I should be given it" or "you should all be doing it my way cause I feel its fun", just because he didn't try hard enough, or make his guild in time, or the others weren't attuned.. raiding is about teamwork and he could have helped with all of that, meanwhile he's dragging all of our faces across the cheese grater of his QQ instead of doing that.
Kyew Jan 20th 2009 12:05PM
This pre-BC raiding guild thing is a pretty good idea, in the same way that twinks are a good idea, or the guy leveling with 0 skill points is a good idea. It's just another way to play the game. Nothing wrong with that.
I do, however, begin to take issue when people who choose to play the game differently get on their soapbox and start preaching at us about how superior they are because of it. Great, you're raiding at 60, awesome. Good luck with that. You're not special.
Boozekin Jan 20th 2009 12:06PM
TotalBiscuit is organizing something similar, leveling and raiding through all vanilla and BC content at the closest to correct level/classes/skills as possible on Anachronus EU, Alliance side. Difference being a lot less cock swinging and for the sheer point of seeing and experiencing the old content.
Read more here:
http://www.wcradio.com/forum/index.php?topic=5714.0
shaman22 Jan 20th 2009 12:11PM
I appreciate the old content as much as the next person, but really, who would want to be stuck at 60 forever. I mean, as a twink type hobby, sure why not, but actually not having the option to progress.....bleh. What would have been the motivating factor to grind through outlands and northrend or expansion "x" while staying 60 the whole way? The only possible reason would be for better gear, that provides "bigger crits, bigger health, bigger mana, etc., etc." Wait a minute?........
zappo Jan 20th 2009 1:54PM
If he made it to 80, and was in a gear that already cleared all the conent (not uncommon) then it doesn't matter if he's at 60 or 80 - right now he still has nowhere to "progress". The difference is that at 60 encounters were much more difficult then the current ones, so it wouldn't suprise me if everyone else has cleared 3.1 and these guys are still trying to down level 60 bosses.
I can see both sides though. I don't think I've had as much fun as when I ran BRD on my priest in the 50s. Going back it's just not as fun because the danger isn't there, and upgrades aren't there. There is nothing like having that feeling when the group is struggling, then thinking to yourself - "oh god, that dwarf is running into another pack"
On the other hand I LOVE tanking on my paladin. I wouldn't give that up for anything. The fact that even with no xpac installed all my talents would allow me to do that legitimately shows that you'll never go back to true vanilla. Right now a protection paladin is in perfect harmony. Defence -> dodge/block/parry -> sanctuary -> mana. I don't think they've ever worked this well and you honestly couldn't pay me to go back.
Xilnold Jan 20th 2009 12:13PM
I'm sorry you babies can't appreciate real skill when you see it. Cry more, maybe your tears will down Easy'thuzad for you.
Firestride Jan 20th 2009 12:17PM
I would love a crack at a Pre-BC server, but this guy sounds like a jerk.
Re: Class Imbalance - If you're rolling on a retro server, you should have done your homework and picked the class you want to play. Even I know that and I'm (at heart) a Balance Druid!
Jyotai Jan 20th 2009 12:31PM
I also play Guild Wars, and there's a whole community of people there who stay in a 'pre-cataclysm' starter zone. So I can understand the appeal to a pre-BC raiding guild.
Over there in GW's the company behind the game even caved in a bit and gave those guys an achievement for it. It would be nice if Blizzard opened a pre-BC server. However it would require more work than a simple achivement - extra staff would have to be hired to support a server(s) that was on a different patch schedule / had different issues. But they would probably make the salaries needed to employ those staffers in the numbers of people who went for accounts on that server.
- which is also the only way they'd make is profitable, requiring it to have its own account...
Still, if I could handle a second WoW account, I'd be filling in an application for the guild discussed in this blog in a heartbeat.
Teo Jan 20th 2009 12:41PM
Terrible comment regarding Naxx. Naxx was moved so that the wonderful content could be experienced by more people. Why create such a wonderful instance, only for a small percentage to even come close to it?
Get over it, people.
Vic Viper Jan 20th 2009 2:27PM
then move MC, ZG, AQ, etc...
if your argument is that "moving it" was intended to have people see it, i don't understand why the other vanilla dun's weren't moved altogether, lol.
IMO, moving Naxx was an great idea from the "greedy" standpoint:
you have nostalgia to motivate players (either those who played in vanilla and the Wc3 players), you don't have to work on new bosses and concepts and you can call it an "entry-raid" to justify it being easy while buying you more time to actually work :)
Rob Jan 20th 2009 12:44PM
I guess there are two schools of thought. One is to do the old raids and make it as *challenging* as possible. The other is to actually see the content and blow through it.
Our guild is taking the later approach, and bringing our 70s and 80s to MC, BT, etc. Our guild has decided that fun is all and we don't have much time to see content, we only raid once a week for 2-3 hours. So we'd rather blow through encounters than figure out how they were supposed to work at that level. Not the same thing though. But it does save the ridiculous amount of time it would take to be geared enough to enter something like oldNaxx, AQ40, BT, when you can have a 80 in greens/blues tank everything.
LiaG Jan 20th 2009 12:44PM
Like someone said, it's a way to play the game. And like another comment, even at lvl 60 you will already have things that were not available during the Classic WoW. But it's ok.
But about Naxx and both expansions, we play in a world that is always changing (errrr, from time to time), so Naxx had a lore related issue to go to Northrend, Alliance and Horde had reasons to go to Outland and do want they did (we start w/ our own factions, then we learn about the Naaru's crusade against Kael'thas, Aldor and Scryers's relationship and we go to BT because of that faction w/ Broken Draenei (Ashtongue something), joining those fights, etc. . ... and then we had the reason to go to Northrend to fight the Lich King's menace on his own territory and no longer at the Plaguelands. The game has evolved in mechanisms, but mainly on lore ... ignoring it is a way to play the game, but you're also ignoring the fact that the history, the present time (lore wise) is no longer the one were the Prestors and C'Thun were the main concerns (even Westfall Brigade moved to Northrend after fixing the Defias issue).
And, of course, even if you are at lvl 80, you can go back and run the old raids ... it won't be so hard, but you can - and ppl stuck at lvl 60 w/ only Classic WoW accounts can't even consider running Kara, ZA, SSC, TK, BT, Naxx, etc and all the new stuff we are going to get. If he didn't decided to be stuck at lvl 60 because of nostalgia, he could give a chance to see how the world (WoW) changed and play along facing the new challenges.
And about Blood Elves in "full T3", it isn't possible because you need BC installed to be able to create belves and draenei chars. Maybe if they create a Classic WoW server, but still, you would need BC to create them.
IanC Jan 20th 2009 12:45PM
Wow, what a whiny guild!