15 Minutes of Fame: Playin' it old school

Upcoming Raids
Zul'Gurub (Farm)
Ahn'Qiraj (20) (Farm)
Molten Core (10/10 Farm)
Blackwing Lair (2/8)
Onyxia (Farm)
Azuregos (Farm)
ZG (Farm)? Blackwing Lair (2/8)?! LOL wut?!? We've written before about players who love to chow down on some good, old-fashioned retro WoW content, avidly mixing original instances with the latest hotness from Wrath. Heralds of Yore from Smolderthorn takes that idea to the next level: not only do they specialize in old-school content, they do it as intended – at level 60.
Why would a guild put two entire game expansions on /ignore? Hearken back to the days of "vanilla WoW" with 15 Minutes of Fame and Heralds of Yore, after the break.
Main character BlotterGuild Heralds of Yore
Server Smolderthorn
WoW player since 2006
Games played pre-WoW Warcraft, Starcraft, Age of Empires, Guild Wars
Games played besides WoW There are other games?
15 Minutes of Fame: Blotter, tell us about the appeal of focusing on legacy content. What's the draw?
Blotter: To me, the expansions that were released by Blizzard in no way met my expectations that I had for them. First and foremost, PvP (which is one of my favorite aspects of WoW) is a lot worse off. The implementation of resilience ratings has ruined PvP, in my opinion. To me, it seems Blizzard has increased everything too much: higher levels, bigger crits, bigger health, bigger mana, etc., etc. I think they should have left us at level 60 and released more and more content.
Also, the instances are much nicer at 60. AQ is one of my favorite places in the entire World of Warcraft. I do not feel The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King have delivered as creative of content. Hell, Naxxramas was so great they even reused it -- to my dismay. BC and WotLK just seemed to be sub-par to me, and I have more fun when I am playing level 60 end game.
Wrath is also very, very easy, and people are clearing the content in record time. Before, when people tried to raid Molten Core right after it came out, they were lucky to clear the Firelords. The game has become a little too watered down.
So how long has HoY been raiding level 60 content?
HoY started as Nova in September 2007 and became Heralds Of Yore in November 2007. A small break was taken when patch 3.0 released, due to people going inactive (from us) for their once-again bigger crits and more health.
So do HoY members have BC and Wrath installed -- or is that strictly forbidden?
You have to be on a non-BC account. It keeps people from leveling up from raids, shows that the member is actually serious about raiding pre-BC content and is just an all-around safeguard to not have people level. It is hard to tell if people aren't on vanilla accounts. We go on the honor system.
Are most of your members already familiar with the legacy content?
I would say around 80% of all HoY members raided level 60 content pre-BC. We do have a few people joining who have not experienced pre-BC before, and we also have members who have only experienced pre-BC content. Currently, we run about 25 people in 40-man raids. We struggle with many of the encounters, though, due to low numbers.
Have you yourself played through BC content? What about Wrath?
Yes, I have extensively played BC and Wrath. I did not quit playing these expansions after a few short weeks. I was in a top raiding guild on my server and had everything going for me, at 80 especially -- I just did not enjoy the experience.
Do you see a faster learning curve in raids because most players have more WoW and overall gaming experience than when this early content was first being played?
I do. Also, the new talents and DPS increases make the fights easier to do with fewer numbers. That helps us a lot.

We are currently progressing through Blackwing Lair, so I guess that is our short-term goal -- but for long-term, yes, it is AQ-40. Even though we no longer have Naxx to raid, AQ-40 and BWL are still plenty of great pre-BC content.
I can only hope that one day a pre-BC server is opened, so I can once again enter the fortress of the great lich Kel'thuzad. And if you know anyone at Blizzard, can you please send them a nasty note saying Blotter wants Naxx back! I think it was a huge mistake to eliminate content that they put in the game at 60. It is a stupid move to make something, then move it to Northrend. This eliminated such a large chunk of the game they developed. For what reason? In my opinion, pure laziness, greediness -- or both. But it does leave a void for retro raiders like myself, knowing that I can never wear my Frostfire, but I can see 80s running in it all day.
Do any of your players have access to BC- or Wrath-era items?
BC and Wrath items are not allowed in our raids. When you enter PvP Battlegrounds or do PuGs, you can wear whatever you want. During raids, though, all gear must be pre-BC. Enchant rules have become rather lax due to the gold many members have spent on their enchants, but players are encouraged to use all pre-BC enchants on all items they receive in HoY raids.
How can interested players best get in touch to find out more?
You can visit our web site or you can watch the BC content video I made. It will show you the epicness of pre-BC content!
Late last night as we prepared this feature for posting, we received a last, brief missive from Blotter: "Broodlord Lashlayer down!" Grats, guys, and may your raid groups fill with a full 40.
Filed under: Guilds, Expansions, Features, Raiding, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, 15 Minutes of Fame
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
ecogrady Jan 20th 2009 6:17PM
Yes. Moving Naxx to Northrend was purely due to laziness and had NOTHING to do with the fact that it makes sense to move it there to follow the story and plotline they are developing.
Lazy buggers!
Ohnooz Jan 20th 2009 7:00PM
and Kael being in 2 places is in the story as well, right?
Oh wait it was in the same expansion, IT'S OK GUYS.
Mognet T Jan 20th 2009 1:13PM
You know, we have a guild on our server (dunno if they are still active) called the Pre BC Raiders and they do the exact same thing. Those guys are (were?) pretty cool. This guy,due to his attitude, is not cool.
Holgar Jan 20th 2009 1:16PM
Ya I agree with GC go do Heroic achivments THEN bitch the game is ez mode.
Sephran Jan 20th 2009 1:24PM
hehehe.
I salute them. I'm sure its lots of fun.
Its funny though. The other night in something like 6 hours we cleared
Ony, UBRS, BWL, AQ20, ZG. With about 5 people. Those were the best tuned and most fun instances yet. Their still a challenge to this day some of them..
Last night I went in on a vashj run.. we killed her with 10 people (not that 10 was needed), it took us something like 3 mins... Not a difficult fight anymore.
GG guys play the game how you want to!
Dez Jan 20th 2009 1:25PM
Very cool in my opinion. If you enjoy the Old school dungeons why not run them? Why not make a guild and raid Oldschool at Lv 60. I miss the old instances but I don't like the farm runs ppl make for them, what's the point of doing MC at 80? I just don't get it.
These guys actually do something that make the old dungeons of memory fun again, nothing short of brilliant.
Falcom Jan 20th 2009 1:27PM
As a player who never made it to raiding levels in vanilla wrath(though I've been playing since day 1) I never got to see Naxx-40. Now that I've seen it in Northrend i'm wondering just how recycled it actually is? Is the inside layout the same? bosses the same? textures etc... all the same? Or is there more changed besides the difficulty re tune?
Deadly. Off. Topic. Jan 20th 2009 1:39PM
What they need to do is just make every dungeon heroic. I know a lot of people who want Heroic Deadmines! Vancleef pay big for your head!
Justin G Jan 20th 2009 1:42PM
I think I must agree with everyone else on these comments... Do you really play this game so obsessively that you have to intentionally find the hardest part and play it over and over again? Don't get be wrong, as I started in BC I love going back and playing the old world content I never saw, but making a guild where it is illegal to experience all the new content is simply ridiculous.
Sure, Old World might be harder, but at that time it was also un-accessible. I'm not a hardcore player, but I'm not super casual either, and I struggled to get in some of the BC era progression.
Furthermore, their are some areas where Wrath and BC blow away old world... When you looks at the storylines and progression through Wrath it puts Old World's underdeveloped stories to shame.
Finally, this whole idea against leveling up is inherently flawed. As a previous poster said, according to this mindset there is no reason to ever have levels, just gear progression into harder content. I myself love having the addition of new levels, of course I want to see some significant improvement to my character. I like the idea that I can improve and do things now that would be impossible at 70, and furthermore it's nice to have the introduction of new leveling/questing content that can give a break to the repetition that is almost inherent to both PvE and PvP endgame scenarios.
daryl Jan 20th 2009 1:45PM
I agree that bringing Naxx to the 80s is a good move. However, I note that the graphics are low grade as it's 2006 graphics which were backwards even then to suit those with lower spec machines at the time. Someone posted that you can "count the triangles in the graphic art".
Now that we've experienced BC and the smoother looking graphics of Mech and so on, I forgot how rough-looking Naxx really is.
Can't really do much about it as it had a certain fell to it and you can't really change it.
However you forget this in the excitement of boss kills and phatties.
Cyanea Jan 20th 2009 2:58PM
Nothing says that these players don't have second accounts that are BC and Wrath enabled.
Tangueray Jan 20th 2009 2:09PM
If they released an original level 60 server system that would be pretty cool but suck at the same time because if you really go back you have to remember hours of waiting in BG queues while you go quest and riding your non-epic speed mount because it was pretty hard farming money without daily quests giving you 10g each for 5min of work. On the bright side you get to 1 shot people in the BG's which was always fun (Unstoppable force FTW!!!) What would really be cool is to be the ones to open the AQ gates and stuff like that, get some server firsts of old content I would enjoy that.
Until that happens I'll be doing 3 drake sarth waiting to /roll high enough to scoop a new flying mount
Xtofer Jan 20th 2009 2:15PM
Is it too much to ask for WoWInsider to do an article that at least considers that some of us don't believe the new content is "too easy"? There are some of us that believe we're in very good guilds with skilled players, but we're still gearing up and progressing, and it's really difficult for a player like me to see article after article that points out or indirectly points out that Wrath is too easy. I'm a member of a raiding alliance that just downed 25man Sapphiron for the first time last night, and you know, it was not like the fight was trivial. We had a great time, and it felt like a major accomplishment. Seeing articles with people pretentiously pointing out that the content is too easy just cheapens the experience, in my opinion.
Kadamon Jan 20th 2009 2:41PM
Yes, it is to much to ask.
I'm not trying to be rude, but the oft said, 'if you don't like it, don't read it,' applies here.
This is a blog, not a news site and people can't seem to remember that fact.
Besides, what gives you the right to say those kind of things anyway? You're being pretentious as well by acting as if you're better than the people that want to do thir 60 man content as is.
Again, I don't mean to be rude, but please think about these kind of things before you start posting whilst you're slightly annoyed.
Xtofer Jan 20th 2009 4:14PM
@ Kadamon
Wow, that was pretty condescending, but I'll go with what you said for a second.
WoWinsider, as a blog, is usually aggregation of objective viewpoints, interviews, news, etc. -- all this in service to the WoW community. With that said, I feel like I have a right to ask a question, just like you feel it's your right to insult me.
For the record, I never acted as though I'm better than anyone that wants to do only level 60 content. I never said that they were wrong if they wanted to do it. If they want to, then more power to them. My comment was only directed at a piece of the article, which I don't agree with.
I know full-well that I don't have to read it, but that's not exactly a winning argument in my book. If I don't read it, then I wouldn't ever know what it says; therefore, why would I be reading a blog in the first place? Reading articles can evoke a response. This was mine. So chill out.
Lemons Jan 20th 2009 4:19PM
It's a general rule when you're writing to seem as awesome as possible (damn that sounds like something Strong Bad would say, lol).
Instead of: "My guild is having trouble downing Malygos"
Try: "Some noobs who need to L2P can't down Malygos"
Instead of: "Attaining a 2k rating in arenas is difficult"
Try: "Attaining a 2k rating in arenas is difficult if you're a noob who aslo needs to L2P"
Also if you don't employ the rule you will be set upon by a thousand furious nerds telling you how easy it was to do whatever you failed at. Always. All the time.
Zasziden Jan 20th 2009 3:11PM
Now, I can understand the affection for some of these raids. MC was awfully fun, then they added Ragnaros and it became fun the second time. BWL was awesome (for the most part) for me. AQ20 and AQ40 were gorgeous (despite being filled with bugs), and despite it being plagued with poorly-designed-troll-instance stigma that all of the pre-BC troll instances shared (ZF, Atal'Hakkar, ZG), I enjoyed ZG for the most part. The first few times. Naxx wasn't released until after I'd retired from the game the first time, so I never saw it and by the time I returned, BC was *this* close.
One of the problems that I had with the old world raids was the wretched task of organizing 40 people. Organizing so many folks and hitting up such long instances was too much for me to handle for long. I did it for a while, just couldn't keep with it and eventually lost interest in the game. Much prefer the 10-mans of BC, and the option of 10/25-manning things through Wrath. But maybe that's just me.
Seems a bit odd though, as they're enjoying all of the talent changes that were brought through the additions found in BC/Wrath, and still calling it the same experience. Still, kudos I suppose, kinda falls in line with the Pacifist levellers and such.
Silverrealm Jan 20th 2009 3:16PM
My Boyfriend and I pretty regularily co-ordinates old skool content for our guild. It is great to remember that co-ordination is required without being over complicated.
We did a 25 an Black Temple run last friday, a Zul'Gurub Mount farm, and an AQ40 attempt with 8-10 people. We had BWL up on the calendar but we honestly are casual raiders and after all those event last weekend, and Naxx 25 & 10, we were kinda spent.
It really breaks up the brain melting concentration in some WotLK raids, and it's fun to joke around and be un-serious in vent sometimes.
He was a hardcore raider back in the day of pre-BC... and I have only been playing for a year. I would have loved to see pre-BC content at level appropriate and gear appropriate. They remain some of my favourite raids, because the bosses seem so epic. Although Molten Core trash is still... well... molten core level trash. LOL
Silverrealm Jan 20th 2009 3:19PM
All that said... I did start an Old Skool Raiders guild on my server and the rules are going to be much the same. I didn't even know someone was doing this for SRS yet... But I love the concept.
Lemons Jan 20th 2009 3:28PM
Given the nature of the guild I think they should change their name to "Reluctance"..