BigRedKitty: Trap-Dancing
by Daniel Howell 
Jan 24th 2009 at 12:00PM
Daniel Howell contributes BigRedKitty, a column with strategies, tips and tricks for and about the Hunter class, sprinkled with a healthy dose of completely improper, sometimes libelous, personal commentary.
Patch 3.0.8. has introduced a new term to many hunters: Trap Dancing. A mainstay of the en-vogue 2/18/51 Survivalist hunter, the concept is to keep your enemy engulfed in an Immolation Trap to provide 100% chance that Lock and Load will proc, after which the SV hunter will reap mondo-benefits. The trick is: how to stay in melee-range to trap while continuing to fire from range. This movie will give you the basics of how this is accomplished.
There are more advanced tactics, such as incorporating Sniper Training, that we won't cover here yet. We want you to practice your Trap Dancing and not get discouraged. This is not the easiest shot-rotation and you might get frustrated if asked to perform too many actions right off the bat.
For the addon-curious, the UI is basic Perl, the action bars are built from Bartender4 and ButtonFacade, the spell-counters are courtesy of OmniCC, and the flying numbers are the product of MikScrollingBattleText.
You are invited to download the full-sized version (35MB) of this movie here.
As always, a great big Thank You to the WoW Insider editors for allowing us to publish this movie both here and on our little blog at the same time!
Nobody covers raid Hunters like BRK. Looking for more Hunter goodness? Check out our non-raid Hunter column, Scattered Shots or the WoW Insider Directory of Hunter Guides.Filed under: Hunter, Tips, How-tos, (Hunter) Big Red Kitty
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Infectious Jan 24th 2009 12:13PM
Second! Great guide, i never thought about the DoT over-running each other
Jugan Jan 24th 2009 12:26PM
Um, does this mean BRK has gone SV??!?
But....if he is SV there is no kitty that is big and red...
In all seriousness, I respecced SV after the patch like everyone else, and didnt like it at all. I felt like I spent all my time staring at my bars waiting for my LnL proc...golly, what fun!
I wonder if this whole business of making SV the highest DPS spec isn't a short lived ploy by Blizzard to encourage the Hunters to try other specs. After all, BM has been THE hunter spec for a long time, like MM was before it. I wonder if this is just a change that will last a few months before they fix BM back to the highest DPS spec.
It just seems to odd for it not to be...after all, blizz has said many times that BM should be the highest DPS because we have the most to lose if our pet dies. It makes no sense for one spec to be the best PvP and best PvE spec. Why have MM or BM at all if one spec does it all? Especially BM: why would anyone want to play a class that has such a large weekness (losing most of our dps if our pet dies) when there are no payoffs?
Not to mention, flavor wise BM is the most defining spec of the class. What sets hunters apart? Their pets. Why steer the hunter community towards a spec that trivializes the one aspect that sets us apart from other classes? ( And dont talk to me about Warlocks, yes they have pets, yadda yadda =P )
It's also suspect that they have finally moved the BM spec away from being a one-button-mashing-class with the buffs to arcane shot...but at the same time designed SV to be "one shot wonders" at the some time.
Just my thoughts, what does everyone else think?
Oh yes, let me save the trolls the trouble: "haha QQ more hunters you are so OP blah blah blah"
Absoli Jan 24th 2009 4:03PM
I dont think this will be the case anymore.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/14578748409-hunter-bm-and-mm-are-broken.html
"
BM is an easier spec to play. We tend to reward specs that are a little tougher to play if played very well with higher dps. Affliction and Mutilate are good examples, though we went overboard with Mutilate's dominance over other specs. If BM was simpler and provided the same or higher dps, then you would see 95% BM hunters (which, no suprise, is exactly what we had). Some players will try SV or MM, decide it's not for them and go back to BM. If they couldn't make SV work, then their dps may be just fine as BM (or else the drop will be so low that they don't care). At issue is how much lower BM can be than MM and SV before it isn't worth spec'ing into. Combat for rogues is too far below Assassination so that you take too big a hit if you choose to opt out of the more demanding Mutilate play style. Make sense?"
I am glad that the specs I did like (MM and SV) are coming back being on even footing again with BM as I detested BM and shelved my hunter rather than play with a spec I didn't like.
mike J Jan 24th 2009 12:36PM
Blizzard introduced the cd to lock and load and the increased proc chance to serpent sting to discourage trap dancing actually. With the current proc rate serpent sting will trigger the 30 second cd everytime.
Trap dancing is useless because not only do you have slight downtime while running in and out but you are also making sniper training completely useless with this tactic.
As an experienced SV hunter, I can say that the trap effect from lock and load is for PVP purposes and the changes in 3.08 reflects Blizzard's opinion of that.
As for shot rotation, whenever Lnl procs, and your multishot is on cd, a very well timed steady shot is just as effective, maybe more effective in some cases due to talents and the SS glyph.
Nick S Jan 24th 2009 1:55PM
Yeah, I found this to be the case. All too often, the Immo trap wouldn't trigger LnL due to the internal cooldown already having been set off by Serpent Sting.
I get better numbers at this point using Sniper Training when possible. I still drop traps on fights like Thaddius where proximity is required, though, and it does give me one, maybe two extra LnL procs per fight.
You can trap anything to get the proc, so I tossed Freezing Arrows at a couple of maggots (critters) in Grob's room and procced the ability. :-D
Nyda Jan 24th 2009 12:40PM
Wow that guy has an annoying and patronising voice, it compels me to punch faces.
shinken Jan 24th 2009 12:58PM
As much as I find his near monotone voice grating, hes is prolly the best class writer in wow insider. he consistently posts interesting and original ideas.
He makes me excited about hunters, and I do not have a hunter past lvl 13.
He sets the standard for Class posts period.
Nick S Jan 24th 2009 1:58PM
I probably wouldn't have stuck with the Hunter class if it wasn't for BRK's enthusiasm and advice.
No one's perfect, but no one else does as much for a class-community as BRK does for Hunters.
So... go troll yourself.
Stumps Jan 24th 2009 5:17PM
Monotone? BRK has in my opinion the most expressive and interesting voice in the WoW podcasting world. I'd listen to him reading a combat log if I could :P
FoxOfWar Jan 24th 2009 5:34PM
His voice is far from monotone(I love the podcasts) - I probably wouldn't have started my hunter either if not for his enthusiasm(going to get her from the shelf soon as I finish getting my shaman up there in the 80's) and vast amounts of hunterrific knowledge.
As for the LnL now proccing more often than not from Serpent Sting, I think I will pass on trap dancing(other than when soloing most likely - when I'm not likely to be in the position to be 30yard+ far from the mob anyway). Going to try it out though, the idea sounds fun.
Debricashi Jan 24th 2009 1:01PM
Trap Dancing is not needed. You gain far more benefit from staying at range and taking advantage of Sniper Training. In raids, I have measured the new proc rate from SS ticks to be "ALL THE TIME."
You may get your proc a couple seconds sooner if you run in, but this gain in damage will be pretty trivial when compared to the number Auto Shots you will miss out on (now your most important shot other than Explosive) by running around, especially since the proc is about to tick off from SS anyway.
The only fight where I aggressively trap is Gluth, where the kiter needs me to lay down a frost floor so he doesn't get his brain eaten.
Dave Jan 24th 2009 1:01PM
IMO, this is largely a waste of time and effort and in many cases you're actually going to come in lower on DPS because of the way you need to let explosive shot proc all three explosions before resuming your DPS rotation.
There's a 30s internal cooldown on lock and load (conveniently at the speed where most people's traps would reset) and for the most part Serpent sting can keep it up on its own at that pace, especially if you glyph for it and you're dilligent about making sure serpent sting stays up. Techically you have an %80 chance of keeping it up full time so you may miss a second or three here and there, but the difference in the small amount of time it takes on a rare occasion to re-proc Lock and Load, to me seems to be roughly the difference between the loss of your autoshot in your rotation while you're spending time running to and from the boss.
It's basically a race between your AP and your mana. I believe the higher your AP and crit, the less worthwhile it is DPS wise to actually waste time with trap dancing. This probably wasn't the case before the latest patch and I'm pretty sure it wasn't, but considering the buffs survival got in general i think most of the changes were actually designed to make Survival a ranged class, not a melee floaty class that hops around like a bunny in fights.
Depending on your glyphs (IMO, viper + steady + serpent, although I haven't done the math to see if you get more of a mana boost from having aimed shot eat %20 less or having to re-serpent sting more often) you really shouldn't have many mana issues here at all so turning that %80 uptime for Lock and Load into %100 by trapping rather than stinging... I don't really know if the math works out for it to be the way to go anymore. (and considering what you lose due to not being in sniper training range while you're running around... I'm even more convinced that trap dancing is a net loss in DPS compared to a quality shot rotation you can stick to).
obarthelemy Jan 24th 2009 1:57PM
Remarks:
1- Trap dancing ensures an immediate proc each CD, since you pop a trap everytime your trap and Lock n' Load are up, and both are synchronized. Serpent Sting may also ensure an LnL proc, but because it is only a 6% proc each time the DOT stings, it takes some time, and this wasted time adds up in the end.
2- There is a sweet spot on most bosses, where you can pop your traps AND shoot at a boss without moving at all.
3- for bosses where that doesn't work, Disengage-ing while firing an instant shot works well
4- There is a drawback to sniper training: going 30+ yards away form the boss makes you lose some raid buffs (totems, aura), especially now that theorycrafting seems to say that you should be at the back of a boss, to avoid Blocked autoshots.
Dave Jan 24th 2009 4:28PM
LnL is a %10 change per damage tick. Mathematically with the 30s internal cooldown you have a roughly %80 chance of LnL being up constantly. Any instances where it's not up constantly just happens to be bad luck.
If you're saying that math-wise, you're better off losing your autoshot DPS combined with the loss of damage bonus from not being in Sniper range, I'd like to see some justification for it. If you're in some sort of "sweet spot" on a boss where you're popping a trap that triggers in ranged shot range, you're definitely not getting your sniper bonus and on a long enough fight that's a significant amount of damage. It's almost definitely more damage than you're going to gain from trap dancing.
And if you're getting out of totem range at 30 yards, that's an issue with raid organization and lack of perspective from your other ranged DPS. If you have ranged shamans that are dropping their totems in melee range to a boss, you really need to work that out with your raiders. Being out of range of totems at 30 means they're putting them in melee range of the boss and for ranged affecting totems that makes no sense... as they can be put 15yards out of melee range (safe spot) and affect both melee standing at the boss and ranged 30 yards away. As for the auras, unless you've got melee that for whatever reason stands inside the hitboxes of bosses, they're going to be 1-4 yards away from the boss in general so you've got a little bit of wiggle room. I don't think there are any useful ranged auras that don't go 30 yards. It's a very irrelevant point for the most part and really something that should be addressed with the rest of the raid rather than something you should sacrifice your own DPS for. In fact, often the best way of knowing you're in sniper range is to get slightly out of whatever aura your ret paladin happens to be using. Often times though, the boost from most auras isn't terribly useful to ranged damage. Horn of Winter is pretty much the only one you want to make sure you get, the rest are only for when you're taking damage... which as an intelligent hunter you're probably not going to take much melee damage and 2/3 of your shots are instant so it's not like you're worried about pushback.
There's absolutely no reason (until nerfed again) that Survival hunters can't be top 2-3 on the DPS meters in a 10 or 25-man raid, it just takes a little more thought process and a good shot rotation, which is how it should have been. BM was broken when you could do nothing but macro Bestial Rage to a Steady Shot and top the meters by mashing one button all night.
-D Jan 24th 2009 1:07PM
I hope BRK is reading this because I have a few questions.
Why on earth wouldn't you use Freezing Arrow? Even if the target is immune to being frozen should it not proc L&L since they "stepped" into the trap?
Also, why Sniper Training? With that rotation and the short range you're never getting the benefit. Is it simply for 15% crit chance on KS? I thought that only applied if you were 30 yards away or further.
And finally Aimed Shot. I don't see it in your rotation--it seems like a weak nod to part time PvPing. You could drop this for 2/2 GFTT or you could lose 2 points from Mortal Shots and get 3/3 Focused Aim.
Thanks in advance for any feedback on these questions.
AyaJulia Jan 24th 2009 1:22PM
I'd like to see the answer to this question about freezing arrow as well, although it's moot if Serpent Sting truly does proc LnL every 30sec like clockwork.
Nick S Jan 24th 2009 2:00PM
Mobs which are immune to the trap type will consume the trap without triggering the trap or Lock and Load.
So no, Freezing Arrow is not appropriate for most bosses. If there are critters or other mobs in the room that can be safely trapped (occasionally true) then Freezing Arrow is a possibility.
obarthelemy Jan 24th 2009 2:07PM
Freezing arrow doesn't help your DPS, explosive/fire trap does.
-D Jan 24th 2009 3:58PM
Good points and information. Although it could be argued that scooting forward and backward to place Immolation Trap could cost a lot of auto-shot dps. That's why I asked about Freezing Arrow.
Memora Jan 24th 2009 1:13PM
hmm this guide is great for non hunters but trap dancing as you mentioned makes you to run to mob or boss and then go to 30 yards away which is dps loose significantly + most of encounters don't allow you to always stand 30 yards away i would try , atm i'm playing 5/15/51 haven't tested 2/18/51