Crowd Control to return in future instances
by Mike Schramm 
Jan 26th 2009 at 5:00PM
This opinion probably isn't shared by everyone, but I have to say: I miss crowd control in PvE. Nowadays, thanks to Death Knights or Blizzard or whoever you want to blame, instance runs are more or less zerg affairs -- everyone runs in on a cue, targets whatever the most dangerous mob is, and then lets the rest die off from the incidental damage thanks to their glyph-ed up, AoE abilities. But I long for a more civilized time when CC was used as a more elegant weapon, when a successful group was based on teamwork rather than gear, and when you needed a sheep, or a trap, or a banish, or all three, to make it through the instance.Fortunately, crowd control isn't dead forever -- GC confirms that while Blizzard doesn't want every pull to take "months of planning" (and obviously they want you to bring the player, not the class, so requiring a Warlock or a Mage along isn't always the best policy), "there will be more CC in the future." Of course, whether that means raids only or future expansions, we have no idea. He does say that "Noxromulous" was made to be accessible, so you might think raids, but one instance players always mention in terms of 5-man difficulty is Magister's Terrace, and let's not forget that that one also came in a content patch.
Despite the bad rep that CC has gotten in PvP, it plays a significant role in the strategy of PvE, and lots of that interesting gameplay has really been lost lately. Hopefully in the future, we'll see Blizzard able to bring back sheep and traps in a way that will test groups without leaving anyone out.
Filed under: Hunter, Mage, Warlock, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
SnippyMcPhail Jan 26th 2009 5:05PM
When I was first learning to tank, I asked my group to use CC..... did not go over well...
kozom Jan 26th 2009 5:32PM
YOU ARE MY IDEAL TANK. cc is a vital tool that is underused, and tanks should be using them no matter what, not trying to avoid using them to prove how tough they are. No matter how good of a tank you are, CC can't hurt the current situation at all.
(I'm slightly biased due to being able to finally root in instances :D )
Manatank Jan 26th 2009 5:44PM
"CC can't hurt the current situation at all."
Then you've never tanked. CC'd mobs are unpredictable, and typically are not receiving threat from the tank while CC'd (but they usually do receive threat from the healers). It isn't the end of the world, but unsolicited CC is actually an annoyance in many cases. Over zealous mages have screwed up more than one of my pulls.
It isn't as much of an issue in Wrath but as a paladin tank in BC I was furious with unsolicited CC because by the time we had killed the other mobs and were ready to pop the CC I had no mana left. All that threat I could have put on that mob from my consecrates/ret aura/holy shield while tanking other mobs was wasted.
CC has its place. It is very wrong to say that it is never detrimental.
SnippyMcPhail Jan 26th 2009 5:53PM
As a pally tank, I pull with shield and I actually target the CC mob. I instruct before hand to please CC AFTER I pull. This way the mob aggros to me when it breaks or gives a second before it gets its noms on the healer!
When I'm on my mage with my typical druid tank, I get to pull frequently, but he knows I can take care of myself and kite if I get stupid. :) Everyone who has CC should be smart enough to either redo the CC if it breaks, or be prepared to kite it should the worst happen.
Kaphik Jan 26th 2009 6:09PM
Getting aggro on a CC'd mob is very easy, at least for me as a warrior. If I am going to break the CC, I Taunt first. If it breaks CC I have a variety of stuns (being Tauren helps), then Taunt. Also taunting a mob right before it's CC'd seems to keep the aggro on me when the CC wears off.
kozom Jan 26th 2009 6:26PM
@Manatank and Snippy
any tank should be able to grab aggro from a CCd mob easily providing both they and their group use common sense. I agree that mobs should be CCd after the inital pull (they always are for when i group, i just thought it was always assumed) and the person who CCd should also be ready to reapply it.
Manatank Jan 26th 2009 6:37PM
It is easy to grab aggro now, but it wasn't in BC. Even our taunt required mana back then. No intercept/intervene. No mocking blow. No challenging shout. Our shield throw took a ton of mana. Usually unsolicited CC meant I needed to burn a mana pot for no reason.
Now the only real downside is it just creates one more thing to keep an eye on that can become a wild card in the fight due to early breaks. It just becomes a risk, and why take a risk unless it is necessary? Just because the mage is bored?
As to the comments about CC needing to be reapplied... There are only a few types of CC that allow for reapplication. Typically those classes require zero skill for CC anyway.
Kemikalkadet Jan 26th 2009 6:37PM
@Kaphik,
It should be even easier for you to build threat on a CC'd mob.. Sunder armour doesn't break CC. Easiest way to do it is set up a mouseover macro so you don't need to deselect the pack.
Niian Jan 27th 2009 4:14PM
People also forget that SHAMANS can now CC! I got hex at 80, and I can count the times I have used it on one hand. Hex is a really powerful CC, in that it only has a CHANCE to break if the target is damaged. I have killed mobs in Heroics without them ever getting out of hex! Additionally, if Blizz wants to use CC more in new content, they are going to need to extend the range of Hex, as it is currently 10yds shorter range than all other CC, so I have to pretty much run in to the fray to use it.
infection Jan 26th 2009 5:08PM
Yay, bring back more cries of CC QQ.
Can't wait.
"OMG I HATE BLIZZARD BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE CC LIKE CLASS X AND Z AND Y. OMG THIS IS STUPID BLIZZARD. OMG"
"OMG I CANT FIND AN INSTANCE GROUP BECAUSE I DONT HAVE CC. OMG"
Gnosh Jan 26th 2009 5:12PM
OH GOD
I can still hear them...
Please... staple the warrior's mouths shut...
draeth Jan 26th 2009 6:05PM
As a fury warrior I don't want to see CC neccessary for fights again as like you said above may hurt my chances at seeing some future 5 mans. I personally enjoy the new zerg method of doing instances as its quicker and more intense, the only members of a group I can see that would want CC back would be healers as 5 mans have gotten a little harder for them
Alkaios Jan 26th 2009 6:13PM
Why was this voted down? He makes a valid point...this will only bring up more whining from players who claim to have trouble getting groups.
Not all classes are created equal, and I don't understand why players are clamoring to mash classes together (WOTLK Beta Hunter stealth, current rogue misdirects, paladin AoE healing, etc.). I'm all for "bring the player, not the class", but there has to be some sort of strategy when it comes to group composition. CC should be a huge part of it still, and I don't understand why CC is absent in parts of the WOTLK instances. It was fun, added an element of risk to encounters, and served as a barrier to face-rollers and alt-tab'ers.
Just my two cents.
Muse Jan 26th 2009 6:32PM
This is why I tank as a retribution paladin. Whenever I need it, I can do my own CC.
Bigfish Jan 26th 2009 5:11PM
Unless they want to start peppering instance pulls with half-and-half demons, humanoids, undead, and who knows what else, it really seems like a silly move.
Of course, if we got some class specific encounter such as the Warlock and Pally Epic mount quests or the Druid Epic Flight Form, that would be a good place to see those sorts of mechanics
Dinkum Thinkum Jan 26th 2009 5:18PM
Glad to know I wasn't imagining the useless of my turtlepenguinsheeppig spell. It was bad enough having it being completely trivial in pvp. Lack of CC in instances make them haphazard affairs and removes the idiot test of not hitting the funny animal. It's gotten to the point of turning the rare situation of CC into a lecture on basic tactics.
Oh blizz, where have all the skillpulls gone?
Sheckly Jan 26th 2009 5:12PM
Heroics are boring as hell now that you can charge through them without CC.
WTB Heroics that are actually HARD.
MrDuck Jan 26th 2009 5:19PM
Because trash is serious business.
Thanks but no thanks, i'll much rather see challenging bosses. Trash was never hard, trash was annoying when it needed CC.
Manatank Jan 26th 2009 5:36PM
I wouldn't mind more difficult instances, but CC doesn't make something difficult. I keep hearing all this talk about the good ol' days where instances were tough. I honestly think it is all a bunch of garbage. The only reason Northrend seems so easy is it took almost no time to go from quest blues to best in game epics. Of course heroics are easy now. You were supposed to be done with them about a week after the game launched because that's about how long it took to outgear them.
Do you know what else was easy? BC heroics when we out geared them. Magister's terrace wasn't hard because it required CC, it was hard because it required learning and knowing what each mob was capable of. Until we learned what they did, we just CC'd them to be sure. After every mob was clearly understood, other methods could be used to deal with them.
There are mob abilities to learn in some of the Northrend heroics as well. How many wipes did it take to learn that someone should do something about the spell flingers in H OK? Once everyone knows to deal with them, are they hard anymore? Would it be any more difficult if you had to have a mage press polymorph to deal with them than it would be to interrupt their casts?
CC doesn't make things hard. CC makes things tedious. After the first attempt you just "learn" instances and do the same thing over and over again. I for one would prefer less trash, and more interesting boss mechanics. Again, it is trivial after you learn it, but I'd rather learn a boss that a trash pull.
Rankin Jan 26th 2009 6:31PM
I agree that CC should be brought back into the game- what is the point of giving rogues an improved sap if we never have to use it! My friends and I have run a few Northrend instances, and the tank we often run with always uses CC even if the dungeon doesn't really warrant it- I like it, keeps us all in practice for when Blizz comes to their senses