Scattered Shots: Hunter changes in 3.0.9 and 3.1

So as you heard the other day, the dev team admits it. They were a little too overly enthusiastic in their nerfs. Beast Mastery is too low, and will be seeing some buffs "before Ulduar," probably related to Serpent's Swiftness or Kindred Spirits. Of course, Beastmastery Hunters could have told you a while ago that the nerfs were too much, and did. Ghostcrawler not only told us that we had the wrong numbers, but that it hardly mattered because everything would change with Ulduar anyway. So to see him change to this degree is a little disorienting, I must admit.
But anyway, this column is not meant to rake Ghostcrawler across the coals. I think he's a pretty decent guy all around. Besides, it's not the first time he's put his foot in his mouth, and it probably won't be the last, either. Overall, I'm glad he's at least communicating, and that he, as the "face" of the dev team, is at least willing to come out and communicate and admit when they were wrong. What I'm really interested in is exactly where the class is going.
Ghostcrawler's implied now that the ultimate aim is for Survival, Beastmastery, and Marksmanship to be roughly equal in PvE DPS. This certainly pleases me. Like many, I play Beastmastery not because I think its easy mode, but because I genuinely enjoy having a strong pet to interact with and the mechanics of the talents and skills used. I certainly don't begrudge Hunters who prefer Marksmanship or Survival either. If we can be 3 equal trees living in harmony without accusing each other of being OP or EZmode, I will be a very happy Hunter.
What interests me is the vague outline of what's to come. Ghostcrawler's implied that we're getting some sort of major mechanics change in 3.1, but now is saying that Beastmastery will get more buffs before 3.1. How does this come together?
3.0.9 Incoming?
So apparently, this means we may have a 3.0.9 coming. Admittedly, it could just be a quick little patch like the one that went live this week, but then again, if it includes class fixes, it could also be another couple months on the PTR -- and (as the raiders all let out a scream of agony) another couple months til 3.1 actually drops. But no matter how it gets here, the big question remains: what exactly will we be getting?
Serpent's Swiftness was mentioned by Ghostcrawler. Interestingly enough, I have been hearing rumblings from around the Hunter community that the Hunter speed increase should be removed off that thing altogether, and Beastmastery Hunters made to scrounge for haste rating like the other 2 specs. I like being able to eschew that silly haste rating, so I'm rather hoping it doesn't come to that. At the same time, simply adding more speed to it probably won't be enough. After all, it already reduces Steady Shot to just about the magic 1.5 number on its own. Perhaps it will provide some sort of damage or duration buff to Serpent Sting, which would continue to encourage Beastmastery Hunters to lay off the Steady Shot spam (Although 3.0.8's already done that pretty well) and fit with the whole snake theme of the talent.
Still, the most likely place we can expect a buff is probably Kindred Spirits. A quick damage buff tacked on to that talent, while somewhat unimaginative, would be the easiest way to put BM Hunters back up where they need to be ahead of Ulduar, and we could probably still get some excitement from the Serpent Sting->Arcane Shot->Steady Shot rotation introduced in 3.0.8 thanks to the new arcane shot buffs.
The great revamp of 3.1
Now the Ulduar patch itself is a bit of an enigma. Ghostcrawler has said changes are coming, but he won't reveal what they are, only that they are "changing the numbers" to the point that comparing them to Hunters now would be like comparing today's Hunter to a Hunter before Steady Shot existed.
It's not likely our itemization will change too drastically. We already had a pretty major itemization shift around a year and a half ago, and right now we share itemization concerns with Enhancement Shamans neatly enough. If Armor Penetration gets buffed, we may end up shifting our gems a bit, but I wouldn't expect much there.
What we will be getting is probably a bit more up in the air. Turning Autoshot into a true Auto attack by allowing us to use it on the run might fit the bill, but it's unclear if that would be the drastic change Ghostcrawler is heralding. We could also simply see a shifting of numbers away from auto attack and onto special abilities. This would inject a bit more "skill" into all 3 specs by making shot rotations meaningful again without the annoyance that is shot clipping, as learning to use your cooldowns and shots efficiently would mean the world to your DPS. Of course, they just nerfed Steady Shot and will probably nerf Explosive Shot soon as well so buffing them up again would be a bit weird.
We might also have to brace for no changes at all. Ghostcrawler may have teased us with changes, but he also said they might not go through at all. In that case, buffing us before Ulduar is simply a way of making sure we can test competitively through Ulduar on the PTR and in internal testing, because those are all the buffs we're getting.
Oh well, regardless of anything else we get in 3.1, hopefully we get some new ammo. I think I'd settle for that at this point. That and those promised Beastmastery buffs. Regardless, we aren't out of the woods. The dev team has admitted their mistake, let's see if they fix it now.
Closing Thoughts
I've talked about the future of the class quite a bit, I know, but that's in part because we keep hearing about the future. Wait for Ulduar, Ghostcrawler's told us more than once, which is why it surprised me when he said we'd get readjusted before Ulduar. Is that a change of heart, or is the whole Ulduar class revamp thing scrapped? I suppose only time will tell, but I'll be watching anxiously for the 3.1 Hunter patch notes for sure. In the meantime, I do sort of like the whole 3 equal trees philosophy Blizzard seems to be looking for. If they can truly get that to work, I'll be happy.
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, Talents, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
jay Jan 29th 2009 9:08AM
i would hate if they nerfed ES at this point I feel like a yoyo at the way they are treating the class at this point. I am enjoying what ES has done for survival and the pain it brings. Please leave it be.
Ashley Jan 29th 2009 9:09AM
I agree. Having all three trees equal would be an awesome thing. Hopefully they manage to find that happy balance. For now, I am sticking to my guns as a BM hunter and just praying.
Carrie Jan 29th 2009 9:13AM
I would love nothing more than for all 3 trees to be fairly equal (within 100dps or less). This way folks get to play the spec they want to; the one they find the most enjoyable to play... and we can take that whole "you're not playing the top EJ dps spec: huntard!" mindset out of the game.
Pheonah Jan 29th 2009 9:14AM
A true auto-attack? Now that would be something worth adding! Damn them and damn their nerfing ^^
Metaphyzxx Jan 30th 2009 10:10AM
Or at the very least, have it 'store' it's cooldown so that you can run, then stop, fire, and run again.
wordsofivory Jan 29th 2009 9:16AM
Well, this just got interesting...
M Jan 29th 2009 9:51AM
Just because it'll come up, and I haven't seen it posted very often...
Put your pet abilities (like Cower, etc) into a macro that turns them on or off each time you send your pet in for an attack. I have a macro for Hunter's Mark that also turns off Cower autocast and Growl on or off depending on whether I'm solo or in a group, and I've never had a problem with pet abilities.
/petautocaston Growl
/petautocastoff Cower
... etc.
Yes, it's crazy that they haven't fixed the problem, but I'd rather them spend the time fixing some real problems that we can't work around so easily. I guess in a utopian world, they should fix all of them :)
Odessus of Kargath Jan 29th 2009 10:03AM
I hope they change Explosive shot in no way. I love it the way it is now. And even if they buff BM back up, I think I'll stick with Survival. I have way more fun playing survival than I ever did with BM.
See, the huge downside to BM is if your pet dies, there goes almost half your DPS. Survival, if your pet dies in the middle of a boss fight... who cares? You can still top meters with the pet dead.
A running auto-shot would be awesome, especially for specs like Survival and Marksman. Not only would we have 2-3 instant shots for mobile fights like Heigan the Unclean, but our auto-shots would also be "instant".
Besides, when dual specs are implement, I think I'll make my 2nd spec BM for soloing. Being able to solo 5man group quests is quite exhilarating.
Geranamo Jan 29th 2009 2:21PM
"See, the huge downside to BM is if your pet dies, there goes almost half your DPS. Survival, if your pet dies in the middle of a boss fight... who cares? You can still top meters with the pet dead."
Well that maybe why they need to nerf ES, topping the dmg meter with your pet dead should not be possible, hunters need pets to be competetive with any spec, end of story. When your pet dies as MM or SV you lose 500-700dps (raid buffed possibly on a fight that does little to no AoE) and if you still manage to top the dmg meter with your pet dead you either a) run with fairly poor dps or b) need to be nerfed. Yeah I am going to go ahead and choose the latter.
Odessus of Kargath Jan 29th 2009 4:37PM
I don't agree with what you said.
Pets shouldn't matter if you use a spec when the pet is a non-critical part of it. If it does, then they Blizzard should be buffing the ghouls Unholy DKs get, or buff the imp affliction locks use most of the time as a mana battery. These 2 specs only get 0%-5% of their dps from their pets. Why should non-BM spec'd hunters be nerfed if other similarly spec'd classes output just as much dps with low dps pets?
5318008 Jan 30th 2009 12:14AM
One way to "reinforce" the connection between hunter and pet for the MM and SV trees would be to keep the pet as a smaller part of a hunter's overall DPS compared to BM, but make more MM and SV abilities dependent on the pet being alive.
That way SV and MM can still maintain a fairly high personal DPS output, but there would be a good case to be made for managing your pet's survivability more often than not.
As to what current abilities should be tied to a pet's mortality I can't speculate on, but if Blizzard end up reworking hunter damage/talents/pet synergy in a major way anyway, it could be interesting to implement it with new or changed talents & mechanics.
styopa Jan 29th 2009 10:04AM
What's even more amusing is that he insisted with a straight face that they have some sort of 'master plan' for all the classes, only about 2-3 weeks ago.
The idea that they even know what they want the hunter to do would be surprising enough; the fact that
a) none of them apparently play hunters at a level where they can really understand the intrinsic relationships between talents, pets, and gear (spirit strike, anyone?)
b) they constantly rewrite the rules of the class in fundamental ways (hey, how much AP do you get per agility, again?)
c) they implement a major nerf patch that everyone (except them, apparently) knew was an overcorrection to excessive earlier buffs, and before the GCD is even done on that, announce that 'it doesn't matter, since we're going to totally revamp everything for 3.1' - wha?
Blizzard.
/facepalm
Salty Jan 29th 2009 10:05AM
There are blue posts from devs that they're going to change Ammo dramatically. Many of us believe it's going to turn into a Sigil/Totem/Libram type of thing, a glyph-like change to our abilities. Adding haste, magic damage, AP or crit to certain shots, etc.
Of course... any talk of ammo is a touchy subject for the devs because if they remove ammo, they have to remove quivers, which means adding top-end ammo DPS into every ranged weapon itself as well as 15% speed or implementing a talent around that (Serpent's Swiftness buffed to 25% and higher in the BM tree? A replacement for IAotH maybe?) It's promising that they've already done something like this to Feral Staves.
The blues are also talking about adding more talents to the pet trees to make Beast Mastery a truly valuable DPS boost. Right now you can get all necessary damage-enhancing abilities with 16 pts, and 4 from BM are spent on... survival stuff.
Dual specs are promising for pet mechanics as well, since in-the-field respecs would leave Exotic pets despawned and no other pet available to the Hunter. Hopefully this means the stables are migrated to the Pets/Mounts interface.
A lot of math has been done to show that, as itemization scales, Hunters would get big diminishing returns on Ulduar gear (and the blues acknowledged it by saying they aren't concerned with how much damage today's Hunter would do with 10,000 AP vs. a rogue). The BM OP-ness came from the fact that your pet was at a very strong baseline the moment you dinged 80 with the appropriate Hunter and pet talents in place. Your pet gains 22% of your AP, so your gear scaling has a lesser effect on your pet. That's why fresh 80 Hunters were seeing 40-50% (or more) of their damage coming from their pets and only when epic'd out were they closer to 30-40%.
Anyway, all this amounts to is that Blizzard will be forced to address some fundamental Hunter mechanics and scaling problems with the Ulduar patch and the introduction of higher-end gear. We're all excited to see what 3.1 brings for us... enjoying utterly rude damage, greater HP, longer range and dripping with crit as SV in the mean time.
Grimshod Jan 29th 2009 10:27AM
Salty, I'm really glad to hear you say that about a Sigil/Totem/Libram thing. It means I'm not the only one who has been thinking that. You bring up an interesting point about the removal of quivers. I think the simplest way to retain the 15% speed increase would be to have this be a baseline quality for all of the new "Ammo" slot-items (in addition to whatever other stats they might have).
Heck, I'd be happy even if these Ammo items didn't have any additional stats other than the damage and speed increase. It would keep me from obsessively stopping at the ammo shop to top myself off every time I'm in Dalaran. But it would be cool if they did have special abilities like Librams (e.g. "Chance on ranged hit: Increase crit rating by 61 for 10 seconds"). That would make me very happy indeed and would make hunter itemization more interesting.
Skyfire Jan 29th 2009 10:12AM
I am surprised no one has mentioned Black Arrow. There have been many iterations of it tested but never implemented. This would certainly make a difference in dps to the entire class.
http://www.wowhead.com/?search=black+arrow#uncategorized-spells
garfunkel Jan 29th 2009 10:25AM
the biggest surprise to me wasn't the reduction, i knew when i was rocking greens and blues and still topping meters by a LONG way that something was going to change....... (Im a BM that went SV and is lovin' it - ES hit like truck yes!)
the biggest surprise was to me personally was the amount of crap on the forums. I mean what hunter community? Why do hunters feel the need to bash other hunters everywhere? Does Surv/MM act seem to act a little too elite? Does BM seem to whine a little too much?
We are all hunters right? If your epic why not help out and perhaps offer some rotation advice instead of the typical "blah blah u noob go facemash" - sure you may be the best, and if you ask nicely I'll bake you some cookies
I'd assume that most class forums at least have some helpful insight, and of course we do to, but it just caught me off guard when I saw the amount of QQ everywhere
we are hunters, we adapt, we persevere, we still hold the top dps spots!
i'm embarrassed at all our whining.............
cheers'
Garfunkel
Hellscream-US
to any BM thinking about trying SV for the first time I highly recommend it, check out a sticky'd guide on the hunter forum by Xumio, its a great start
Twowolves Jan 29th 2009 10:28AM
After 3 years of playing hunters, I'm trying Surv for the first time. So far, I don't see a big difference in leveling. Of course, I'm only 21, but any Dps increase is a good increase.
Euripides Jan 29th 2009 10:43AM
Eschewing haste leads to weird situations where it's actually an upgrade for you to wear a lower quality item because even though there is less itemization to go around, non of it's spent on haste.
Personally, I'd prefer BM hunters to get a bonus from haste like everyone else.
Dobmeister Jan 29th 2009 10:46AM
Blizzard's approach to class balance:
The Bucks Fizz method...
"First you gotta buff them up
and then you gotta nerf them down!
But if you believe that it's then imbalanced,
then you gotta, play around!
Until you will find there becomes a time,
For makin' your mind up!"
Turlagh Jan 29th 2009 10:58AM
Point Blank Range? Please?