Insider Trader: Your bad self
Insider Trader is your inside line on making, selling, buying and using player-made products.In the World of Warcraft, as in life, we are constantly being faced with morally significant choices. Some players try their best to listen to the Angel on their shoulder, while others will do whatever suits them at the time. Proper etiquette is always in debate.
Of course, as this is a virtual world, the moral implications of our actions are on a much smaller scale. Hitting someone for being annoying could cause many problems in my personal and professional lives, yet blasting someone similar off of a cliff in-game can be almost therapeutic.
When it comes to gathering and crafting, greed crops up. There are many ways to get what you want, often at the expense of others. This week, Insider Trader will discuss the underhanded side of the professional world.
The following examples of shifty behavior are only some of the situations that you may encounter. In fact, you may recognize some of it in yourself!
Fishing and the Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza
There is some debate as to whether or not it is acceptable to start casting into a pool of fish or wreckage that another player is already fishing. In the majority of cases, doing this is a quick way to make people very angry.
Fortunately, most of my fishing experiences have been very pleasant. Players often end up with silent 'buddies,' sometimes from the opposite faction, who will fish near you, with an unspoken agreement not to get in the other's way.
The tournament on the other hand, can be quite nasty. I've heard of entire guilds that will kill other players, mount on the fish pools, and do whatever they can to hinder every single contestant except the one guildmate who is actually participating.
People will dip into the pools, regardless of who made it there first, and factions will turn against themselves.
Gathering
While seeking ore veins or herbs, many players seem to beef up their /ignore lists.
When a character is leveling through Outlands or Northrend, and is incapable of flight, older, wealthier characters sometimes take advantage. I've seen players kite mobs onto lower players, race others for the first hit, and steal the contents of the node that a player has been painstakingly clearing a foot path to.
Once, in the mines of Netherwing Ledge, a same-faction cat druid noticed that I was clearing the mobs around a Netherwing Egg. I backed over to it, in the hopes that he would go along his way, as I would if the situation were reversed.
Instead, he went around a corner, stealthed his way behind me, took the item, and then whispered me saying that he was already exalted with the Netherwing, and simply intended to destroy the soulbound item.
Many other players speak of leaving junk items behind in the ore veins that they mine all over a province. Farmers following after would not find respawns, but would indeed find a much-needed node filled only with vendor trash.
As for skinning, I know that many skinners will watch to see if a player is going to skin the corpses he or she is making, or simply leave them behind. When in doubt, skinners have been instructed to avoid looting any of their corpses until they have the time to skin them. Other times, skinning one corpse in front of a rival skinner is enough to signal that the player should move along.
On the other hand, many skinners enjoy ninja'ing from others. I've had rogues stealth in the middle of a large mob that I'm killing, and then skin the corpse the second I've finished looting. I've also seen players follow other players around, allowing them to kill the beasts and then attempting to skin faster.
Tagging
Attacking a mob will "tag" it for you and any of your party members. Non-party members might help you kill it, but will receive no chance of loot, and no experience.
When farming for dropped reagents, such as Frostweave Cloth or Crystallized elements, is it fair to deliberately tag mobs that other players are clearly attempting to tag for themselves?
Many farming expeditions go quite smoothly. Again, there seems to be an unwritten rule that states that you should keep to your own area, and avoid tagging anything that another player is eyeing.
Of course, we all "slip up" now and again. Intentionally or unintentionally, that is different from players, often hunters simply because many of their talents are suited to tagging multiple targets from a distance, who will make an afternoon of deliberately tagging mobs in an area in an effort to force other players out.
Tailors in a Northrend group or raid
The etiquette for handling one's Northern Cloth Scavenging with other grouped tailors is still being written. Personally, I find that if I don't silently, or "nonchalantly" stand in a group of corpses with my Auto-Loot ready, other tailors don't seem to "pass" on any of the bonus cloth drops.
I've tried chatting about my tailoring during a raid, or even stopping to make bolts of cloth, but it still seems that no matter how nice your raidmates are, you'd be best served to look out for your own interests.
Accidentally needing
When looting is set to a need/greed system, people will inevitably make mistakes. Some players seem to make them more often. Whether it is over a choice recipe, gem, or orb, there are people out there who will roll unfairly and cry accident.
Flooding and undercutting in the Auction House
There are several ways to do business. You can be the Wal-Mart of your server, or you can try to sell your goods and attempt to keep a healthy market in the process. There will always be differing opinions about both tactics, claiming the first is greedy, selfish and destructive, while the second is naive and ineffective.
Tips
Tipping is a source of drama, and full of grey areas. Expectations may differ between the parties involved, and the particulars and details often change the numbers. Insider Trader has previously explored tipping etiquette in depth, as well as how to earn fair wages.
Procs
Certain professions may net you bonus items when crafting, such as Perfect gem cuts or extra elixirs or flasks. Does the paying customer, who only supplied the mats and/or fees for say, one item, get to keep a valuable extra item for free, when it is the seller who leveled the profession?
Is it fair to try to hide your procs, or inform the customer about your proc policies after you've already gone ahead and taken their materials and money?
Trade Channel
This channel is a place to chat about goods and services, although sometimes you might not think so. There are many ways to use and abuse the trade channel, including making or breaking your own, or another's, career.
Filed under: Herbalism, Insider Trader (Professions), Features, Jewelcrafting, Economy, Analysis / Opinion, First Aid, Enchanting, Tailoring, Leatherworking, Engineering, Cooking, Blacksmithing, Alchemy, Skinning, Mining, Fishing, Inscription






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
jr Jan 30th 2009 5:40PM
What trash items are you talking about when mining? Stone? I guess it's been so long since I mined in the old world that the first things that popped in my head were gems and motes. And those are definitely not trash.
Jay in Oregon Jan 30th 2009 7:27PM
I will say in my own defense that the new mining system makes it really easy for me to fill up my bags with gems/motes/crystallized elements, and I can think of one time out in Netherwing where i got attacked by a 100K elite mob while trying to make room for a gem from a Nethercite node and had to run. So some poor sucker will work his way over to that node only to find a piece of Golden Draenite or something. Mea culpa.
But the idea of intentionally taking JUST the ore and leaving everything else (or putting your own junk in the node -- I didn't even think it was possible!) not only horrifies me, it doesn't make sense. I thought that the ore node population was consistent; you mine a node and a new one spawns somewhere else in the zone. In that case, aren't you making your own farming harder by having to remember which nodes you polluted?
As for the guy who was trashing Netherwing Eggs for fun, I don't think that there's much you can do about it. If he was following you around sniping your ore and eggs, you could report him for harassment; if he's just killing a little time, the best you can do is come back later.
There is always a small percentage of people who get their kicks griefing, and the best you can do is avoid them or report them, because any other reaction is giving them the attention they want.
Masarah Jan 30th 2009 6:23PM
Agreed, there is very little "trash" from nodes unless you mean Stones which aren't really "trash" as they can be sold on the AH for a low price.
Probably the correct term is "unvaluable items".
HeavenSk8 Jan 30th 2009 5:41PM
Today i created a Plate armor with spell power for a customer, he gave me the materials (which i had to smelt by the way.), and after i created it, i traded him and i saw his side of the trade turned green, and he was giving no tip.
I stood for like 20 minutes with the trade chat open until he gave me 10g, then i gave him the item.
I'm not greedy, but i don't like wasting my time for nothing.
Moo Jan 30th 2009 5:53PM
Some people don't expect a tip in certain circumstances. I never took a tip if I leveled my blacksmithing, for example. Absent some sort of initial conversation yes he probably should have assumed that he should tip you something for your efforts, but ideally you have that conversation in advance. In all honesty, the miscommunication between you and your customer is nearly as much your fault as his, IMO. It's not hard when you get that initial pst to say "ok, your mats plus xg tip, meet me at anvil" Then everyone is on the same page.
Bob Jan 30th 2009 5:53PM
Awww, poor you.
You had to press a few keys on a keyboard to smelt some bars and then click create.
I don't tip for recipes that come from a trainer, only ones that you have to work for such as the SP gem from The Kirin Tor, or a Mechano-Hog, or my Deathchill cloak.
Rob Jan 30th 2009 5:59PM
@Bob
Do you realize it takes thousands of gold and many hours to get to the level where your goods are useful?
It's like buying apples at the market. Sure, every market got them, but don't expect to see them at cost (which is actually free (or close to it) if you think about it). What are you paying for? Transport, and a lot of labor to get the product from tree to market. Same thing in WoW, you are 'paying' for the hours and gold it took to get the prof up to level 400 or whatever.
IMHO people in wow should really take the wow economy to heart, it's basically how it works in the real world (in a demand-side economy).
Worcester Jan 30th 2009 7:32PM
So instead you wasted 20 minutes waiting on a tip that you could have easily asked for before you started?
I don't mind tipping, but if you'd better not waste my time trying to prove a point. Make your terms understood up front.
Tipping is very much a grey area. How much is acceptable is always a source of contention. Why was 10g given in this instance? I probably would have put up 5. Would you have continued to sit there with the trade window open until I gave more?
You essentially held his materials ransom until he gave you more gold.
That's not a tip.
I think we need to get back to calling them "gratuities", so people remember that they are an act of good faith, not a requirement.
"something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service ; especially : tip"
Balius Jan 31st 2009 3:37AM
If you demand it, it isn't a tip. It's payment, which you obviously failed to agree upon or even discuss. So what you were doing is extortion, holding items that weren't yours ransom until he gave you money that wasn't yours. I'd have reported you, personally(and yes, I've done so successfully in early WoW when crafters decided to pocket goods and/or crafted items rather than fulfill the deal), so count yourself lucky that he caved so easily.
THJ Jan 31st 2009 12:37PM
Re: tips
Charge a flat fee, or just sell on the AH. On my server there are so few enchant scrolls on the AH it's pitiful. I will gladly pay 2-3x the price of mats if I can just buy and mail the enchant from my bank alt.
Re: AH
If you have the resources, set the price ceiling (50-500% the current min buy out) with a few items, buy out everything that is 70% or lower, then list the bought items or rest of your stock. Auctioneer is a must.
Rubes underpricing on the AH nets me about 1k a week out of approx 5k a week net.
If you 0 professions, you can still make a mint on buying/getting crafted mana pots and mana injector kits. RMPs go for about 7-8g a pop, and MPIs go for 10-13g a pop.
Granted, if someone already controls the MPI market on your server, it's much harder, as they have the resources to underprice or buy you out if you list below cost.
Gimia Jan 30th 2009 5:48PM
On Bloodhoof-US Alliance trade channel seems to rarely be used for trade. I myself am not much of a salesman or AH watcher but while out in the field on my hunter (skinner) or pally (miner/engineer) I make sure nobody else is already at a node or body attempting to take it before I myself grab it.
Now days with mining being only a single tap to get all the ore it gets things moving much faster but also causes some drama when it comes to those titanium nodes.
Eric Jan 30th 2009 5:51PM
Selling stacks of one....
Thats a big pain in the ass. Especially when the guy doing it is selling each one for 7g and buying a stack of 20 is roughly 100g.
Sure sometimes you only need one but at least sell in stacks of 5 instead of just one....
Firestride Jan 30th 2009 6:11PM
Why? It's called liquidity. I don't do it for everything--I usually skip cloth, leather, and herbs--but other things sell better in stacks of 1. People WILL pay a premium to only have to buy one. How does this make your life worse?
vexis58 Jan 30th 2009 6:45PM
I often feel the opposite, when people have things up in stacks of 5, but I only need 1, so I have to waste money and time buying a 5-stack and then selling back the extras.
I will very often sell things in singles if they are not items like cloth/leather/herbs/ore that people almost always buy in bulk. That way people can choose how many they want to buy, rather than being stuck with extras they don't want.
Starfiyre of Shadow Council Jan 30th 2009 10:12PM
Let me top that with the horror stories to end all AH horror stories.
There's a bank alt famous on the Alliance side of Shadow Council for selling single, stackable items on the AH. His name is Banktar! *DUN DUN DUN* He is well known for 5 pages of nothing but single arcane dusts.
But then, he really outdone himself. One day he bought 3 stacks of arcanite arrows off of the AH and then proceeded to SEPARATE SINGLE ARROWS off the stacks and put them on the AH. There was over 10 PAGES OF SINGLE ARROWS on the AH from Banktar.
It was beautiful and frightening at the same time.
Mognet T Jan 31st 2009 9:31AM
Let's not forget the third nasty AH undercut: the Monopoly. Buying up all of the current items on the market and reselling them at 2x the price. My guildies butchered the price of copper ore and wool cloth on Sentinels-H a while back (right after BC launched), the prices still fluctuate despite the fact that we rarely ever play there anymore due to similar people with similar goals.
Eric Feb 2nd 2009 12:58PM
The is that everyone wanted to make more by selling stacks of one, if you need more than that thats too bad. There was one stack of twenty, and if you want to get several enchants that are dust heavy you either A) cant B) buy/find greens and get them D/E'd which can be a hassle in its own right or C) self induce carpal tunnel.
Its fine for a page or two but having no bigger stacks is a pain.
Spicyness Jan 30th 2009 5:54PM
I hate people like that don't tip. I am a mage and so I often get asked for ports. Now ports aren't expensive but they aren't free.
I'm also an enchanter. Perhaps I am evil but I don't disenchant in instances. If a blue item drops and no one needs it then it gets to go to a vendor. I disenchant my own blue items but when I'm done and go to sell my shards I don't my group mates competing with me to sell their shards.
Rob Jan 30th 2009 6:02PM
I do the same, i don't like adverting that i can DE unless it's a heroic where the epic at the end DEs for a few hundred gold. Much of the time i'll just roll greed, say i'm a DEer, and hope people don't ask for shards. If they do I'm really happy to give them out, but most people just pass on them. I still need almost all of the recipes so the shards are really valuable for me. (And it's not like down the road I'll get any sort of compensation for buying the recipes).
Rob Jan 30th 2009 5:54PM
Good article. I actually dropped mining ages ago because of the intense competition in outlands, lead to one incident where I was clearing mobs around the node, someone came in, tried to take it, failed, I took it, then I got 'called out' for being a ore ninja. Don't need that, thanks. (But with the mining change i am sorely tempted to go back and re-level mining)
Tips..well my policy is that tips are not required. If you want payment, say upfront. A tip is a way of saying thanks.
Procs. If it's for guildies i'll give them the proc. If not, well it depends on how generous i'm feeling. Usually i give the customer the proc, occassionally i keep it.
I wonder what others do. I actually like the tradecraft and the customer interaction, but I find its usually a waste of precious time to sit in trade, hawking services, or if i try to sell my wares in AH, almost inevitably the item is selling for less than the material cost. (Although some actually make alot of gold by selling crafted stuff).