Designing around latency
by Matthew Rossi 
Feb 2nd 2009 at 7:00PM
Over at The Many Relms of Relmstein, Relmstein discusses how Naxxramas was originally created to be the hardest of the hardcore 40 man raids and how what was then not as much an issue (namely, extreme latency causing issues) for the very few at the top is now somewhat more obvious. Since Blizzard designs raids to take buffs like Replenishment into account, should they go that one step further and assume there's going to be some latency? Some players report unusual latency in the raids that seems to have nothing to do with their internect connection (an issue that was supposed to be fixed in patch 3.0.8) so should lag just be considered a fact of life? And would we lose interesting mechanics (Relmstein himself mentions the Thaddius fight as one that would be hard to do with latency in mind) like the combined three drakes and their abilities?
Obviously I don't know, but I think a little thought placed into making lag less lethal for an entire raid would be a good thing, at least as long as it's out of the players hands like it seems to be now.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, News items, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Alex Feb 2nd 2009 7:08PM
Would be nice if Blizzard would take it into some consideration but I can it being abused as well.
Chukie Feb 2nd 2009 7:08PM
In my mind the Thaddius fight IS designed with latency in mind... you have several seconds to move before your blowing people up immediately after a polarity shift. Unless your experiencing > 5 seconds of lag you shouldn't be obliterating your raid....
I personally feel allowing for lag any more would ruin the ability to design any kind of mobile encounter.
sephirah Feb 2nd 2009 8:17PM
Thaddius is actually one of the Naxx boss that is almost impossible with high latency.
Isabella Feb 2nd 2009 8:58PM
Actually, in Naxx40, the strat for Thaddius was somewhat different than I've seen in 25/10 to compensate for the bizarre gremlin-induced lag. Rather than assigning a cardinal direction for each sign for the entire fight, there was a direction assigned to the very first sign (ie, + left, - right), and after the first charge, you would move 90 degrees in one direction if your sign changed and the other if your charge stayed the same (ie, +left, -right then change left, same right). If your latency was really high, that gives you 30 seconds to move, or DC, or whatever.
I wouldn't really recommend anybody adopting this strat at this point because it's super convoluted, but it's a way a strat can be tweaked to compensate for lag, if your raid group needs that help. There are very few fights and mechanics which can't be worked around.
Osc Feb 2nd 2009 9:07PM
Thaddius used to be THE latency-inducing fight. On many servers, you'd know when another guild started that fight because everyone's instance would lag to hell.
Selective memory seems to be striking here; while other instances suffered from some horrific lag, Naxx was the worst at actually CAUSING that lag back in classic.
valkry Feb 2nd 2009 7:16PM
On a god day I hot 400ms, this plays havoc in raids. Oceanic latency ftl.
Blizzard should spend some of the profits they make from us on our own servers.
Dave Feb 2nd 2009 7:17PM
I think fights that actively work against you when your latency is high need to be eliminated from the game.
If they're going to promote a "take the player not the blah blah blah" then at some point a guild can and will use your latency against you for going to a raid if they add any more of these fights. 2-3 people who can't cut it on some fights just because so much happens in a single second.
Surely they can design fights that don't basically wipe the raid or kill you off if you can't manage to get a sub 200 ping through the whole encounter.
Firestride Feb 2nd 2009 7:20PM
Even aside from specific fights, have you tried Moonkin DPSing with >300ms lag? My lag is worse than most because I didn't get good enough grades to get into a medical school NOT on a tiny island, but trying to switch to Starfire to use Nature's Grace procs is just impossible. It's also always fun starting the next Regrowth before the first has appeared on the target.
Rollo Feb 2nd 2009 7:34PM
I'm telling my children to work hard in school and get good grades for this exact reason!
ketsugi Feb 3rd 2009 3:42AM
Hello from Singapore?
hold up Feb 2nd 2009 7:30PM
If you start developing around latency then you are going to have some really ticked off high end players. It really should just be a fair balance.
If your computer is 3+ years old, you probably will have to upgrade to enjoy the game content. At the other end, you shouldn't have to upgrade everytime a new patch comes out.
But I can see how it can be frustrating for people who can't afford to keep up to date with the technology. We just had a really good player gquit because he was unable to do Sartharion3D. He was constantly getting hit with lava walls or void zones and basically his excuse was that his computer couldn't respond fast enough and he would be dead before he could react. I guess grinding along at 5 fps will get you killed in this game. We told him that if he couldn't stay alive for the fight that we wouldn't be able to bring him anymore. He got all upset and said that he was going to break for awhile and then left.
Kate Feb 2nd 2009 7:47PM
Latency and Frame Rate are two very different things. Frame rate is a computer issue and the player can control that. Latency is a server-end issue and cannot be controlled by the player (unless they're on Dial-up, I suppose).
I'm in Australia and have to deal with 500+ latency and it can sometimes be unplayable even though I generally have 60+ fps.
Lanth Feb 2nd 2009 7:54PM
It's not the computer that's the problem (though it'd be quite hard to raid at 5fps). Australian/Oceanic players play on US servers (not sure for the reason behind it; someone can't be bothered with the hassle of true Oceanic servers), which means a constant 300-400 ping. We can't change this with hardware, the only way to change it is to move to US and play there.
Kanuris Feb 3rd 2009 3:08AM
This was almost me in Sunwell. 512mb RAM, 96mb Internal Graphics Card and a 2.8ghz Pentium 4 Processor.
Whilst i ran a few addons, the framerate was crippling in there. I'd get 7 fps on Kil'Jaeden, and loads worse if i was forced to tank the mini voids on Mu'ru, which i always was.
2gb RAM upgrade a month into Wrath helped, but it still ain't helping enough.
Draenors Feb 2nd 2009 7:31PM
The current latency that some realms are experiencing should definitely not be a fact of life. My guild has had, I think, at least 4 Naxx 25-raids that we had to cancel because of lag. Most of the time, the instance is simply unplayable.
But I guess it wouldn't hurt if the encounters and class balance were designed with a sane amount of latency (maybe 200) or so in mind.
Dunnion Feb 2nd 2009 7:35PM
This was an issue on my server pre-BC. Medivh, home of one of the top world wide progression guilds Fury. They had to transfer off Medivh to continue on in Nax 40, cause lag was so bad it was impossible to play.
Dunnion Feb 2nd 2009 7:32PM
If they slow everything down, how will they make fights hard, if you don't have to factor in reaction time? Being able to move/think quickly really is the only thing that separates "good players" and "bad players".
Quel Feb 2nd 2009 7:57PM
what about adding a Matrix button that would slow everything down for a bit, allowing you to do more stuff while on lag :P
Muse Feb 2nd 2009 8:46PM
Actually, being able to plan ahead, learn rotations, organise encounters, and execute strategy is what separates good players from bad ones. One does not need great reaction time to be an awesome WoW player, sorry.
stqn Feb 3rd 2009 7:16AM
Good players are players who are helpful to others and like to learn new things about the game and put them into practice.