Forum post of the day: Friends in low places
by Amanda Dean 
Feb 4th 2009 at 3:00PM
How much can you determine about someone from their guild tag? Andrys of Arathor believes that she should be able to rely on someone's performance based on the guild they're in. She's disappointed that she invited a low DPS player because of a guild tag. She then checked the armory profile to see that the player was ranked 8 in the guild, presumably a friends and family rank. The post finished with "Boot your friends."I've been watching this thread for a couple of days, and am surprised it hasn't gotten more attention. Klepsacovic of Zul'jin pointed out that guild ranks are listed on the armory, and the OP should have checked there. Some people are in the habit of checking the armory for any potential groupmates? I am not, then again, I don't check guild tag either when PUGging. To me bad players can come in many flavors, tanks that don't pay attention to mana, low DPS that are not interested in constructive feedback, loot ninjas, unpleasant people, and anyone who refuses to follow directions or kill order.
I generally do not decide who to invite based on guild tag, but it has been a factor in not inviting players before. My guild has players of all skill levels from the young lady I used to work with who's still learning the game to raiding relics from beta. We try to help folks not just in getting gear, but also in learning to be self sufficient.
I expect my guildes to be competent and courteous when in groups. Skill and gear come with time and practice. I'm not willing to stop playing with my friends because they're on a different level. I do struggle with ranking guildies who are friends but not quite up to speed. We do not have a dedicated friends and family rank.
Is Necran of Mannoroth correct? If you have bad people in you guild are you a bad guild?
Filed under: Guilds, Instances, Raiding, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Riz Feb 4th 2009 3:05PM
"Is Necran of Mannoroth correct? If you have bad people in you guild are you a bad guild?"
Do you even bother to proofread?
Andostre Feb 4th 2009 3:15PM
Do you really think that this is acceptable behavior? Would you really be okay with making this statement to someone face-to-face? If not, why would you do it online?
Riz Feb 4th 2009 3:22PM
Yes, I would - and have - made such statements face to face. Why not? Do you approve of incompetency or laziness?
Jakeman Feb 4th 2009 3:33PM
"Yes, I would - and have - made such statements face to face. "
I believe you should have use commas instead of dashes. Do you even bother to proofread?
joerendous Feb 4th 2009 3:40PM
Riz probably approvs of incomptncy or lazinss,
Hollywood Ron Feb 4th 2009 3:45PM
I wholeheartedly approve of incompetence and laziness.
Riz Feb 4th 2009 3:59PM
@ Jakeman, I'm not the one writing for a blog ...
Matrim Feb 4th 2009 4:01PM
Yes but you're the one writing the comment which is posted on the blog which is thusly posted on the internet.
Kaeona Feb 4th 2009 4:12PM
People who respond like you typically don't write for a living.
Those of us who do — and have done it for a long time — know not to sit back and start hurling rocks. It might damage our precious glass house.
There's not a writer on the planet — amateur, professional, award-winning, who hasn't made a stupid mistake — whether it be word choice, the dreaded wrong its/it's or its evil goateed cousin to/too.
It's not incompetence or laziness. It's called an error or a typo. It's the reason why most newspapers have a proofreader, fact checker or copydesk that is NOT the writer.
It's a luxury that most blogs can't afford and, quite frankly, don't need. Typically readers understand how the content is produced and that the mechanisms are not as rigorous as they would find at a real "news" site or product.
Thankfully, these people can go back, edit and correct their errors.
You, on the other hand, will always be a jackass.
Kakistocracy Feb 4th 2009 4:27PM
Furthermore, if you must point out errors (which can be helpful provided the manner in which it is done is conducive to such a thing), please try to get them all. I spy with my little eye either a missing "i", or a very strange use of synecdoche.
Chirri Feb 4th 2009 5:28PM
Kaeona makes a fabulous point.
Articles and text you're reading in your newspaper, magazine, or book aren't the beautiful singular brain children of the authors they're credited to. They should all be going through a copy editor, and it's pretty clear when they don't (there are some book publishers who either have very poorly skilled copy editors, or don't employ them at all as far as I can tell). You shouldn't judge blog authors by the same criteria you would a newspaper columnists; bloggers tend not to have the luxury of someone proofing their work for them before posting articles.
I'm a picky reader, but when I'm online, I accept all typos as they come. There's no filter to correct typos in in-game chat, and pretending to misunderstand someone due to a typo does a LOT more to interrupt communication than letting the typo pass and moving on with the interaction. It's also rude, because you KNOW what they're trying to say, but don't care because you want to point out how they're wrong (which is so very, very helpful...to your ego) and that's more important than actually expressing ideas.
Meeo Feb 5th 2009 11:46AM
Because we all know WoW Insider is srz bznz.
Matrim Feb 4th 2009 3:07PM
You know, I had a bad grouping experience with the #1 Horde guild in a PuG of H-UP lastnight. He was tanking on a DK and for some reason he figured the alt of a "#1 Raiding guild" could tank a heroic in quest blues and greens.
Not only did it save me (they had downed a boss previous to my joining) the punkass refused to take criticsm, dropping group with "STFU and look at my guild tag".
"Just cuz you're a man doesn't mean you get to act like a bitch"
Deadlock Feb 4th 2009 3:10PM
When you start /gkicking your friends you know you need to stop playing WoW and get a life.
Blake Feb 4th 2009 3:38PM
Exactly. Guilds are meant to be of a social structure and if you start excluding players based on ability, what fun does that make the game? There's probably some high-end guilds that do discriminate based on ability, but I'd wager 99% of the guilds out there are of a friendly structure and have no ability-based requirements.
Plastic Rat Feb 4th 2009 10:24PM
A guild is a team. Like any non-digital team, such as a sports team or task team, it requires all of its members to perform to a certain standard to succeed at the goals it sets.
I would never dream of joining a buddy's (even casual) football team and never bother learning how to play the game.
Now let me say straight up that I have no problem with somebody who makes mistakes but is constantly interested in learning and improving.
People who do however not care how badly they play in groups and are not willing to improve, well I'd have to wonder why I made friends with them in the first place. I don't expect special treatment from anyone and I don't give special treatment either.
Birdfall Feb 5th 2009 7:33AM
^ This.
We're a family guild that raids. People assume we're a raid guild first. We're not. People are morons.
makkura Feb 4th 2009 3:17PM
Guild is definitely NOT a good way to tell the quality of a player.
It MIGHT determine what kind of gear they have access to, top end, due to what raiding level the guild is at.
Armory can be checked if you want to see the player's gear so use it instead of generalizing by guild.
Personally, when pugging, I check the gear on potential Tanks and Healers first (I'm usually one of the two considering my DK tank and Priest healer). If they're both good then the DPS isn't too big of a deal. If they're mediocre, I'll try to make sure the dps should be good (also via lookups on armory).
This does occasionally backfire, however, as having a good tank and healer without checking the dps can give a really low dps group. Upper 70's at 600 dps, anyone?
Usually groups like this have other issues like following kill order as mentioned above.
Gear quality and pure skill aren't the only things that matter in a group, though they're easier to 'see' (ie: inspect/armory, watch the way they play for a bit).
I've had groups of low geared/low skill players that were wonderful to be in as they realized they had some issues.
These kind of players take content more carefully, listen to orders (based on who knows what's going on and who's got what idea), and actively seek criticism to help increase their skills. Granted there aren't usually a lot of these folks.
There are a lot of factors outside of what guild you may be in and how geared you are and you have to play with someone to see most of them. I propose to set judgments based on how the player talks before the instance (inviting / gathering /etc) and how geared they are compared to the difficulty of the instance/group quest/whatever.
A rushed person or someone with a bad attitude aren't worth the hassle even if they're high DPS or a great Tank/Healer.
I'll take some nice, humble players instead.
Nadril Feb 4th 2009 3:17PM
I sincerely hope a lot of people don't do this. The reason being is that, for example, I am not in a guild. I'm a level 80 mage, I've done the content (at least to a point right now where I know what it is, haven't done all of naxx 25 because I've been 80 for a little over a week) and I would consider myself to be a decent player.
My point is I think there are players like me who just don't care about progression, but are good players. I don't want to turn this into a bunch of bragging (it's hard not to) but almost every PUG raid I go to after the raid there is always at least one person asking me to join their raiding guild. Of course my answer is always no, I simply don't want to do organized raiding. Not interested in it anymore, especially after doing a lot of it in TBC.
However, I do think that, at times, I get judged before joining a group because of my non-guild. The other day I got laughed out because of my 1700SP for a naxx 10 PUG, which I'm sure the guy was just an idiot (I can do more than enough DPS needed for a naxx 10 run) but my non-guild tag may have had something to do with it.
Is there anyone else in WoWInsider that is like me? That is, guildless? Don't get me wrong, I socialize plenty (I have plenty of friends on the server, my roomate plays on the same server and will be my arena partner) but I just don't feel like dealing with guild drama or any of that bull.
zappo Feb 4th 2009 3:58PM
I consider myself a part of a guild.. on my horde characters. I also have an alliance character who will pretty much remain guildless. Reason being that I don't really have the time to commit to that character, so it doesn't seem appropriate to be in a guild.
Whenever I group people tell me things like "wow you're a great tank" and so forth. I think the only reason that's noteworthy is because they EXPECTED me to be very bad. And why wouldn't they? The guildless stigma is there for a reason.
Look at the reason why many people end up guildless. It's because they're idiots, or bank ninjas, or just all around super terrible. For the most part any reasonable person can be in a guild, so the question becomes - why are you not? Typically it's for the aforesaid reasons, but it's possible there are some valid reasons like yours and mine that have nothing to do with being bad. But really it's just one of those things you have to live with from strait pugs. Typically if you're a decent player you can network well enough so it doesn't matter.
I'll also be the first to admit I judge people (in game) based on things that have nothing to do with them, so I supposed that's a sword that cuts both ways. I'm still willing to accept that. Bias based on "guild tags" is really only the tip of the iceberg on a much deeper topic.