Analysis of stated 3.1 rogue changes
by Michael Sacco 
Feb 5th 2009 at 1:30AM
All right, rogues. So by now some of you have likely read our list of 3.1 changes for our bloodthirsty class, and if not, you should! Right now! Make no mistake, these are some very cool changes, and even if this is the whole list (it's not), I'm pretty happy with how things are shaping up--not just for rogues, but for all the classes mentioned so far.
If you haven't read through them yet or if you're not a big theorycrafter, you can take a moment and read through our analysis of how 3.1 will (so far) affect you, the rogue.
Let's have a look!
Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.
This saves you a ton of energy and GCDs, first of all. The big change here, though, is that it's no longer an incredible annoyance to keep up. Hunger For Blood is a nice ability that shouldn't require you to watch it like a hawk at all times to make sure you have three stacks, and that's exactly the change made here. Good work, Greg.
On a side note, I've seen some commenters on our 3.1 changes post actually say that this was a nerf for PVE rogues. I've got a reply for you. If you seriously think that keeping one stack of HfB up is harder than three, I don't know what to tell you. This also a full 6% more total damage than the current Hunger for Blood, too. I'm sure you can deal with putting a bleed up every once in a while. If you can't, though, you may be happy to know that Ghostcrawler's clarified that the target can have anyone's bleed effect, not just one of yours, for HfB to activate. That said, there are still unanswered questions -- does this buff you or debuff the enemy? Is it still 30 seconds? I'm sure we'll get these answers later on, but maybe someone should ask on the forums?
Adrenaline Rush – the cooldown on this ability has been lowered.
They haven't said by how much, but this is (of course) a Good Change.
Lightning Reflexes – reduced to 3 ranks. In addition to 2/4/6% dodge, this talent now also grants 4/7/10% passive melee haste.
Finally! Finally, I can take some points in the middle of Combat without feeling like I've thrown those points away. 10% haste is a direct 10% increase to your white damage, which is (of course) a large amount of your damage. I love this change.
Killing Spree – while this ability is active, the rogue does 20% additional damage.
No complaints. Killing Spree is a cool ability that needed a damage buff and this is a straighforward answer. Ghostcrawler touched on it a bit in this post.
Savage Combat – now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
This doubles the physical damage bonus granted by Savage Combat, which is 2% more physical damage for your entire melee group. Great utility.
Mace Specialization – this talent now grants haste in addition to armor penetration.
Again, doesn't say how much haste, but any haste is good. I don't think this will be a tipping point to speccing maces for most people, but it's a welcome change for mace-specced rogues.
All in all, I'm pretty impressed with the changes so far. The developers seem to have listened to complaints (specifically mine, about how many wasted points Combat has) and taken them to heart. Ghostcrawler's stated that as 3.1 draws closer we'll see more changes, large and small. We'll keep you updated as he keeps his promise.
Patch 3.1 brings us Ulduar, dual specs, significant changes to all the classes, and more! We've got you covered from top to bottom with our Guide to Patch 3.1.Filed under: Rogue, Patches, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Mihn Feb 5th 2009 1:37AM
I have two low speed maces in my bank, just waiting to come out. I cant wait until test comes up to try it.
Lemons Feb 5th 2009 3:08AM
How can u have a low speed mace?
You can have a fast mace, or a slow mace, but...a low speed mace?
onetrueping Feb 5th 2009 4:16AM
You hold it with your knee. Duh.
Anyway, "low speed" obviously refers to the Speed stat of the weapon, having a low value, and thus being Fast. Unless, of course, it refers to the actual speed of the weapon being low (in that Miles per Hour is considered "speed"), in which case, the mace is Slow.
Interesting conundrum. I award the comedy duo of Mihn and Lemons the "Annual Ekrim Zen Post Award".
milnez Feb 5th 2009 1:45AM
YES!
Buff rogues....theyre really struggling.
NOT
SINisterWyvern Feb 5th 2009 9:43AM
Actually yes, they are. If you don't thinks so how about adding some reasoning as to why.
epic Feb 5th 2009 10:50AM
plate wearer getting three shotted......
stqn Feb 6th 2009 11:22AM
As far as I understand it, rogues are not getting buffed for PvP (which I assume is what you're talking about), but for PvE raids. Which I don't care much about at the moment either...
They're actually being nerfed for farming/questing (Mutilate HfB rogues at least.)
Thander Feb 5th 2009 1:56AM
I'm sure the HfB change is going to be a buff for raiding but I'm not looking forward to it on my leveling rogue. With these changes it won't be as good for soloing.
Bleeds just take too long when fighting mobs. My rogue can kill a mob in 10 seconds using direct damage skills, bleeds take longer than that. Bleeds are only nice when you have time to get combo points up and they go their full duration.
I've had an easy time so far making sure HfB is stacked before the fight. When the mob is dead I have plenty of time to refresh it before the next fight. So for soloing it comes down to garrote for +15% damage or cheap shot for an extra combo point. Which one is better?
Clevins Feb 5th 2009 2:00AM
Garotte counts as a bleed effect I believe. So instead of opening with CS out of stealth, open with Garotte. Or, of course, don't worry about HfB. I can't imagine you bother to build a full 3 stack on a 12k hitpoint mob now, right?
Balius Feb 5th 2009 3:02AM
I keep three up at all times on my Assassination rogue, which works now only because the stacks don't disappear from target to target. Usually, all that means is pushing the button before and after engaging each enemy and is more annoying than critical. On longer fights, conserving energy to keep HfB up is more of a significant concern. Overestimating how much energy to conserve and when to start conserving cuts into damage done, but under-estimating and allowing HfB to drop creates a devastating loss of dps.
This change effectively cuts my damage by 9% while fighting "trash", where using bleeds simply isn't viable because of the low health of the enemies and the speed with which they are dispatched. Which is fine.
It's a trade I'm willing to make if it means a buff in damage when fighting a boss, the only time a single target DPS class really matters. Also, since letting HfB drop would be less critical than it is now, there's the added freedom of not having to worry about being a few energy short when the timer runs out.
Deathgodryuk Feb 5th 2009 11:31AM
Why would you level a rogue with Assassination? Combat/Sub are built for that kind of thing.
Amshel Feb 5th 2009 2:02AM
The Mace spec adding haste reminds me of the questionable patch notes a while back that mention turning haste and armor penetration into one stat, potency. Is this some evidence that maybe those patch notes may actually contain some truth?
Allen Feb 5th 2009 2:16AM
That's a good observation. I also noted that the fake patch notes also correctly predicted that Killing Spree increases your damage by 20%.
The problem with those patch notes, though, is that every single thing they listed was a class buff that is what everyone wanted. Not a single nerf, if I recall correctly.
For now, it's just a good guess.
Angus Feb 5th 2009 8:19AM
Oh, I noticed...
Let's hope that it was good at other predicitons
Furien Feb 5th 2009 2:15AM
HfB will still need to be refreshed. The changes won't save us any energy or GCD's unless you're letting it drop off now and have to restack it, which you shouldn't.
Still watching S&D? Yes.
Still watching HfB? Yes.
With this change we will also need to watch Rupture uptime. At the moment you don't need to actually watch rupture uptime, just apply it when HfB does not require a refresh and S&D has > 12 seconds left.
The 6% damage boost is nice but your assessment that one stack is easier to keep up than three is incorrect. You should be walking into combat with three stacks and as long as you don't let it drop off the number of stacks is irrelevant. One stack is easier to reapply than three if you let HfB drop off but current rotations allow it to never drop off.
If you don't understand that refreshing one stack every thirty seconds is exactly the same as refreshing something already stacked to three (1 x GCD and 30 energy) then I don't know what to tell you.
The difference now is that applying it in the first place is conditional on an existing bleed effect.
Michael Sacco Feb 5th 2009 2:28AM
You're right. For every rogue who runs a perfect rotation every single fight no matter what, this is exactly the same. For people who exist, though, this is a solid change.
nickerz_24 Feb 5th 2009 2:28AM
Totally agree Furien. This change to HfB isnt changing the fact that we'll still have to watch HfB and refresh it every 30 sec. The extra 6% is nice, but i dont like it being conditional on having the bleed effect already up.
As my rotation goes now, rupture is the one thing i dont mind letting drop for a second or two. It is third on my priority list behind SnD and HfB. But now, it is going to be just as important to have rupture up 100% of the time because HfB is dependant on it. Sounds a little more complicated to me.
Again, I like the extra 6%, but the only rogue that this change really benefits is the sloppy rogue that lets HfB drop on a regular basis because the penalty to get HfB back up is now only 30 energy (the cost of just refreshing it anyway) instead of 90 energy and 3 GCDs.
Dranaerys Feb 5th 2009 2:36AM
Gotta agree with Furien and other rogues on ehre, this changes our playstyle (and the biggest annoyance of Assassination rogues) not at all, we are still mashing that HfB button every 30 seconds, the difference is there is less of an energy punishment when we let it drop.
Also I guess, the days of stacking 3 HfB and ToT burst tank threat generating on a boss are over, unless you Garrotte, HfB and then burst with what energy you have left.
Eh, Im not jsut that thrulled, bliz said they would make HfB a little more "fun", this isn't really that, if you want to make it more fun, make it a passive skill that only activates when a target bleeds. :p
Lemons Feb 5th 2009 3:00AM
This is a pretty terrible change to HFB. Even if they do "make it a passive skill that only activates when a target bleeds" how will that work on say...an aoe trash pull?
Right now my foks does respectable damage considering I have HfB up when I use it, but how am I going to bleed something like a weak trash mob without killing it first? or even if I do get a bleed on it it's likely it'll just die 2 secs later.
I'd rather have to watch the buff and refresh it (something I'm getting very good at) then have to deal with these shenanigans.
Solex Feb 5th 2009 11:11AM
I try to be patient with my brother and sister rogues but are you really that retarded? Who cares about aoe TRASH pulls? You know what you do on the aoe trash pulls? FOK twice and wait for the real aoe classes to take care of it, then smile when the raid boss comes around and you're saving a few hundred energy on not having to blow hfb every 12 or 30 seconds or relaxing because the war is basically going to have deep wounds up almost 100% of the time.
I find it very funny that they're making a change that's going to save rogues energy and increase their dps by removing the game and people are complaining about its application of trash. I don't know if you guys ever played it but to me, keeping snd and hfb up is like playing root beer tap, instead of having glasses I have to unwieldy buffs I have to watch at my own risk and if they drop a curse a lot more.