Searching for the Vanish bug
by Mike Schramm 
Feb 5th 2009 at 3:30PM
Are you sitting down, Rogues? Ghostcrawler finally addressed the Vanish bug over on the forums, but not in the way you'd want him to: he says that while it probably is a bug, they can't seem to find it. According to Mr. Street, every time they sit down and try to recreate the bug issues with Vanish (aggro isn't lost when it's supposed to be), they come up short, like a mechanic who never hears that rattling in your car.I'll echo what many players in the thread say: it is there. I've had it bite me many times -- given that I don't Arena much, it's usually when I pull aggro from multiple mobs while soloing, and try to Vanish away: one of them will strangely keep attacking me. But in terms of reproducing it, GC's got me -- I don't know when it happens, or what circumstances make it happen, I just know that it happens. And when it does, it's annoying.
He also says that like Onyxia Deep Breath-ing more, the Vanish bug has moved into a kind of legendary perpetual problem, so much so that they can't tell the real complaints from the jokes. So maybe for your favorite bug in the game (ahem, someday I'll get a Cower bug fix), it's not so much a matter of Blizzard just fixing it, as Blizzard finding out why it's happening in the first place.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Bugs, Blizzard, Classes, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Rilandune Feb 5th 2009 3:45PM
... great
I find it interesting that they've moved it into Legendary status : ) So every time I vanish and still end up keeping aggro I can consider that a "Legendary Achievement" ... I like that... though I'd like the bug fixed more so. Oh well, at least they are finally acknowledging the full extent of the bug, that's a step in the right direction!
~Rilandune
Beli Feb 5th 2009 4:09PM
Mages have the same problem with invisibility sometimes. There have been a few times i've popped invisibility on a boss fight, been both invisible and out of range when the rogue or hunter dies, and gotten killed while still invisible.
Gordal Feb 5th 2009 5:04PM
On another note, I've lost count of the times when I've still held aggro on a mob in a pack through Feign Death. No resist logged, no forgetting about the fact it takes a second or so to kick in, just aggro.
*Sigh*
Cyno Feb 5th 2009 3:46PM
If i had to guess id say its a function of latency probably. You pop vanish as the mob attacks, your client registers the attack and drops you out of vanish before the server registers that you vanished and can drop the mobs aggro.
I've heard of this bug forever, but if thats what theyre talking about, i guess i never even really noticed and always just assumed that one mob still attacking me had a DOT up or something. Minor annoyance at worst.
Ed (Sindarin, Hydraxis US) Feb 5th 2009 3:50PM
D'oh! You beat me to it!
Kassu Feb 5th 2009 3:54PM
I think you guys should say what you said here on the official forums, where old GC could see it.
T Feb 5th 2009 4:10PM
It goes way past minor annoyance when PvPing or when you're on a PvP server. Its life or death in those cases.
It is not dots. It is not latency. As a poster states below, multiple mobs can drop aggro, yet one will stay on you.
I guess I should rephrase--it could be latency, but it is not latency alone causing the problem. There may very well be multiple things occurring together that causes it.
As a PvPer, it is well past minor annoyance. We are talking one of the core rogue abilities that is, at least for me, broken far too often. Popping a successful vanish is a surprise now; I expect it to fail most of the time.
Kakistocracy Feb 5th 2009 4:15PM
Another funny bug like this is, if you get hit right as the mage spell invisibility takes affect, the damage number pops up on the screen and the combat log, but has no impact on actual health. At one point I lived through 30k overkill thanks to this.
Ed (Sindarin, Hydraxis US) Feb 5th 2009 3:49PM
I always thought that the vanish bug was due to latency problems, I would imagine that it would happen in these sort of circumstances:
User activates vanish on the client, the client sends this information to the server and in the meanwhile removes the user from combat and enters them into stealth. But due to latency, this command does not reach the server in time, and some kind of stealth-dropping ability hits the user between the client putting the user into stealth and the server receiving this information. So the mobs go on attacking the user and so Vanish seems to have bugged.
That was complete speculation as I don't know how the client and server process this information fully, but it's certainly a very annoying bug, and one that wouldn't show up if they were testing in near-zero latency conditions. Seems unlikely they wouldn't simulate latency, but who knows, and besides, it's interesting to speculate. xD
Rilandune Feb 5th 2009 4:02PM
That would certainly make sense, though I'm fairly certain that a latency issue would be a bit easier to find than it seems this is.
Add to that the fact that just last night I activated vanish and sprint with 3 mobs aggro'd. As I ran and popped vanish 2 of the mobs dropped aggro - the 3rd continued to chase. I had no DoT's on, nor was the 3rd mob in melee range (warrior mob) and able to hit me, he was simply chasing. (Also I had no daze affect, in essence no debuffs)
I activated Shadowmeld, dropped aggro instantly from the last remaining (3rd) mob, he ran back to the camp. So Vanish dropped my aggro from first 2 mobs, put me into stealth, I remained in stealth, but had to activate Shadowmeld to drop the aggro from the last mob, this is all while in stealth.
To me, that doesn't speak of latency. I will not claim to be an expert, nor do I know the client/server relationship.
~Rilandune
Narlic Feb 5th 2009 4:05PM
The fix for this would be to make it so that the improved stealth state that a vanish puts you into *isn't removed by taking damage*. This was even hits landing due to latency will only be able to strike you once, and then you won't be there for the next six seconds and you can be properly dropped out of combat.
Lemons Feb 5th 2009 9:51PM
@Narlic
That is actually a really cool fix, it's contrary to the popular "go immune to damage for 1-2 seconds" that I hear a lot.
That way you could stay vanished until the server did its thing and worked out the aggro drop, but you still have the possibility of dieing making it so rogues won't use vanish as a damage block in pvp.
Heck I'd take anything at this point.
roflcopter Feb 5th 2009 6:17PM
Wow this is great! They don't even know how to fix something they made. You know when I am programming and I have an issue that is very very very difficult to fix, I step back and recode a part again, walking myself through it making sure that no issues should arise.
T Feb 5th 2009 4:05PM
I am floored that they are even admitting to it being real. The prior party line on this from Blizz was latency. My respect for them has gone up if just because they are finally admitting the truth.
I've guessed for quite awhile that Blizzard knew it was real and they couldn't find it. I'm okay with that. Its not perfect, but its more respectful to players to tell the truth, rather than some BS latency excuse.
I hope they fix it, but I understand if they can't.
cranberryzero Feb 5th 2009 4:11PM
My impression is that it's somehow latency based, but I've also had vanish issues, for some reason only in Northrend, where vanish or stealth only lasts for a second or two, even with no mobs or pesky campfires for 100 miles.
Za Feb 5th 2009 4:46PM
I admittedly haven't looked into this on the forums or anything, but I'm having the same issue with Shadowmeld. At least one mob doesn't give up on me. I'm still able to SM+Flight due to latency, but I enter back into combat fairly shortly after Shadowmelding. I just assumed that I don't have great stealth, but it's nice to hear that it's a bug, even if they don't know where it is.
Kinsbane Feb 5th 2009 5:44PM
I don't believe it's a latency issue. I've Vanished and had mob's literally follow me around attempting to hit me until I finally got out of kite range. This has happened with low and high lvl mobs, in opposing faction cities, and in PVP. It's very annoying especially in an raid scenario when you're trying to avoid pulling more aggro or avoiding a wipe.
yotsuna Feb 5th 2009 7:58PM
I know how the vanish bug started... Quakeworld, the first game to introduce the concept of client prediction.
Basically what you see happening on your screen/client isn't what's happening on the server... sure this is a fraction of a second, but that's the area where all "WHAT THE FU**" moments are born from in gaming.
You think you hit that shot in Counter-Strike or got the AWP shot off first... You think you got to the health pack before your opponent.... You think you hit vanish before that swing that killed you / added the bleed effect / etc got applied.
I think there's also probably a concept of a "simultaneously occurring action" happening where you apply vanish the exact same time (or very small timeframe) that someone does something to you.
They will never be able to do a 100% failsafe check that vanish was applied before and cancel out the opposing vanish-breaking/canceling action.
The reason why client prediction / push-latency got added to games 10 years ago was because only a few people had good internet connections and the gameplay experience was only good for them. Modemers whined that they should have the same online gaming experience as people on T1s/DS3s/CableModems/ISDNs and game companies listened... they decided to dumb down the actual gameplay with prediction so the masses would have a better overall gameplay experience.
So there you go... an old school gamer finally reveals the hidden secret behind the vanish bug.
Forward it to Blizzard, print it out and put it on your wall, or whatever... the days of pure what-you-see-is-what's-actually-happening gaming died with Quakeworld.
Send a flame email to IDSoftware for taking a concept developed by a terribad Quake developer named Zoid and incorporating it into multiplayer engines that would end up being the foundation for all multiplayer gaming engines in the future.
kabshiel Feb 5th 2009 9:14PM
Shadowmeld has the same problem.
Desworks Feb 5th 2009 11:58PM
The latency theory is a probable cause for many vanish bugouts, but I'm surprised that nobody linked this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP6NR5miRLI
Vanish failing against a target dummy. In spectacular HD, allowing you to see the combat log.
Myself, I'm usually pretty relaxed when PvPing and PvEing, so when vanish bugs I usually look upon it as another chance to tell a highly entertaining story about me dying in embarrassing ways.